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Old December 22nd, 2011, 10:44 PM   #1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I found a Polish site with the average fuel prices in each country of Europe except ... Poland itself (just click here)

What do you guys think of it ? Is it accurate in the case of your country ?

In the case of France, it is !
Ok, for Germany the 1,40 are between the normal price and the special offer.

But i dont't pay 1,44 in France - that should be the price of Total etc. Supermarches, Elf, Esso Express are 10 centimes cheaper.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:20 PM   #1722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I found a Polish site with the average fuel prices in each country of Europe except ... Poland itself (just click here)

What do you guys think of it ? Is it accurate in the case of your country ?

In the case of France, it is !
Włochy

95 - 1,68
98 - 1,80
Diesel - 1,65
LPG - 0,71

I think they're right althought real prices are (sadly) some cents higher.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:21 PM   #1723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothar.G View Post
Gasoline is currently 1.42 EUR in Athy, Ireland (Not bad considering our Government now takes over 60% of it in revenue)

These were our Gasoline prices in 2001:
0.64 IEP = 0.81 EUR

1,42 €???

I remember in 2004 they were around 0,95 € for Unleaded and 0,85 for Diesel!

OMG!!!
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:41 PM   #1724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptscout View Post
Ok, for Germany the 1,40 are between the normal price and the special offer.

But i dont't pay 1,44 in France - that should be the price of Total etc. Supermarches, Elf, Esso Express are 10 centimes cheaper.
True, but it's only last week diesel has gone down a lot.

About unleaded 95 & 98: that's the price I pay in my BP station. In Leclerc, for instance, it's around 8 €urocents cheaper, & in Esso 10 €urocents cheaper.

P.S.: the Netherlands & especially Italy have gone nuts !
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:45 PM   #1725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
1,42 €???

I remember in 2004 they were around 0,95 € for Unleaded and 0,85 for Diesel!

OMG!!!
It peaked at 1.55 EUR in my locality earlier this year. Retailers can be greedy in Ireland and since many people gave up their cars, the prices decreased a little.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 12:58 PM   #1726
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Q8 in Denmark today:

92:
12.26 DKK
1.65€
$2.15/l
$8.14/gal

95:
12.29 DKK
1.66€
$2.16/l
$8.18/gal

Diesel:
11.49 DKK
1.55€
$2.02/l
$7.65/gal
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 01:19 PM   #1727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I found a Polish site with the average fuel prices in each country of Europe except ... Poland itself (just click here)

What do you guys think of it ? Is it accurate in the case of your country ?

In the case of France, it is !
In the case of Spain, the price depends of the autonomous comunities. Here both petrol & diesel are cheaper than stated there, but in Castile-La Mancha prices are a bit higher. And LPG price is wrong, is really more expensive than stated.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 01:25 PM   #1728
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I think many people overestimate how much the fuel price influence their mobility cost. Especially in Europe, where additional car-related taxes are quite high, it doesn't really matter whether fuel costs € 1,20 or € 1,80 per liter. Most people spend over € 0,25 per kilometer if you calculate write-offs, road taxes, insurance and maintenance.

I've calculated that if diesel was to cost € 3 per liter ($ 15 per gallon), my mobility cost would increase by only 20 percent.

It's mostly psychological because fuel costs are the most direct and visible day-to-day expenditure on mobility.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 03:29 PM   #1729
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This comparison is useful as you don't need to check with an exchange rate site as well

http://energy.eu/

It looks like reasonably accurate averages.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 09:42 PM   #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy5 View Post
This comparison is useful as you don't need to check with an exchange rate site as well

http://energy.eu/

It looks like reasonably accurate averages.
Good site too, although they forgot about LPG for instance. & it's limited to the EU, which is quite a pity ...

I think having both links can be useful to each of us before traveling within Europe.

(+ viamichelin to calculate road taxes & so on, but that's off-topic here...)
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Old December 24th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #1731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think many people overestimate how much the fuel price influence their mobility cost. Especially in Europe, where additional car-related taxes are quite high, it doesn't really matter whether fuel costs € 1,20 or € 1,80 per liter. Most people spend over € 0,25 per kilometer if you calculate write-offs, road taxes, insurance and maintenance.

I've calculated that if diesel was to cost € 3 per liter ($ 15 per gallon), my mobility cost would increase by only 20 percent.

It's mostly psychological because fuel costs are the most direct and visible day-to-day expenditure on mobility.
You're right Chris!

In Italy we have bonus/malus insurances and I entered the insurance system in 4th class (on 18th classes) and now I am in 1st class. Althought class decreased the price increased. I paid in 2007 about 700 € for the annual insurance of a Lancia Y 1.2! Now I pay 800 € (if in 4th class I would pay circa 920 €).

Do you have bonus/malus insurance also in the Netherlands?
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Old December 24th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #1732
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For insurance I pay less then 100 euros per year and it is not extraordinary here in Hungary.
However motorway toll is raisened, it is 43.000 forint (approx. 140€) for the year 2012.

I've filled my car today and it was the first time that the first digit of the price was 4, precisely I paid 402.9 forints per liter for Euro95. (Approx. 1.30€/l or 6.50$/gallon).
Our currency is seriously devaluated, some 15% since last summer so although fuel prices grow week by week, converted to euro or dollar fuel is cheaper now than half a year ago. What a pity that my salary is in forint...
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Old December 25th, 2011, 05:51 AM   #1733
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$1.12 / L -for the unleaded gasoline...
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Old December 25th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #1734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've calculated that if diesel was to cost € 3 per liter ($ 15 per gallon), my mobility cost would increase by only 20 percent.
20% to me is not "only". It is much, in my opinion.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 01:57 PM   #1735
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How likely is it that diesel will cost € 3 anytime soon? That's a market price increase of maybe 4 times.

I'm just saying people are overreacting to fuel prices increases as if it is the end of the world. A 10-cent increase hardly makes a notable hike on your overall mobility cost. Just like those people who are saying the automobile era will end if fuel is like € 3 per liter. Americans even think that if fuel is € 1 per liter.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarltonHill View Post
$1.12 / L -for the unleaded gasoline...
So 0.86 EUR and 3.81 PLN - how cheap!
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Old December 25th, 2011, 03:32 PM   #1737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
How likely is it that diesel will cost € 3 anytime soon? That's a market price increase of maybe 4 times.

I'm just saying people are overreacting to fuel prices increases as if it is the end of the world. A 10-cent increase hardly makes a notable hike on your overall mobility cost. Just like those people who are saying the automobile era will end if fuel is like € 3 per liter. Americans even think that if fuel is € 1 per liter.
Of course it is not the end of the world. But if mobility costs increase 20% and, in the same time, wages go up, say, only 5%, many people start thinking whether owning a car is still a good idea. In Italy many people are selling their cars these days.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 04:54 PM   #1738
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Of course it is not the end of the world. But if mobility costs increase 20% and, in the same time, wages go up, say, only 5%, many people start thinking whether owning a car is still a good idea. In Italy many people are selling their cars these days.
It's unlikely the wages go up only 5% in the next 20 years.

If people are selling their cars because the fuel price goes up 10 cents, they can't do math. If you spend € 3000 per year on maintenance, insurance, tolls/road tax and write-offs (most people spend more) and drive the typical 18 000 kilometers per year, that's € 0,17 per kilometer. A 10 cent increase of the fuel price at a typical gasoline consumption rate of 12 km / L is an increase of 1 cent per kilometer.

As a matter of fact none of the previous fuel price hikes has ever led to less traffic on the mid- to long term.

Just an example of how car costs can be composed in the Netherlands;

* write off: if you buy an € 18 000 car and sell it 4 years later for € 12 000 that's € 1500 write off per year.
* insurance: all-risk: € 600 per year
* road tax: € 400 - 700 per year
* maintenance: € 300 per year
* fuel: € 1.70 / 12 * 18 000 km = € 2.520

total expenditure: € 5.620
Fuel expenditure: € 2.520
total expenditure if fuel goes up 10 cents: € 5.800

cost per km = € 0.32

Some of these values are highly variable, depending on a lot of factors. For instance if you buy a small fuel-efficient car, the write off is lower because these models remain popular. But if you buy a family car, the write off is quite significant. Maintenance can also fluctuate a lot, but hey, buy a set of wiper blades per year, or replace the brakes or tires. A set of tires alone can easily cost up to € 400. Just an oil-change plus a regular check is often already € 100 - 200 in Western Europe.

A newer car costs more in write-offs, but less in maintenance. Nowadays a repair can cost hundreds of euros. Driving an old car may not even be cheaper than driving a new, small, fuel-efficient car.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #1739
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's unlikely the wages go up only 5% in the next 20 years.
I don't think fuel will reach 3€ in 20 years. In Italy it went from 1.3€ to 1.7€ in a little more than 1 year. At this speed it would reach 3€ in 3-4 years. And wages, in Italy, didn't grow at all in one year.
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Old December 26th, 2011, 02:21 AM   #1740
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Portugal (Galp)

Un-leaded €1.579
Un-leaded (98oct) €1.724
Diesel €1.444
Diesel + €1.524

We need a major oil discovery to drive these prices down...
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