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Old March 11th, 2012, 09:36 PM   #1901
AUchamps
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Autogas looks cheap. How come more ppl don't drive using that? Even better question, why can't the USA start using Autogas if it's so cheap?
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:40 PM   #1902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
Some minutes ago in Wülfrath, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Deutschland!

Use the daytime, than its around 11ct cheaper (local different).
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #1903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUchamps View Post
Autogas looks cheap. How come more ppl don't drive using that? Even better question, why can't the USA start using Autogas if it's so cheap?
Thats only because of the tax in Europe. Gas couldnt be cheaper but the consumption is higher. Some Diesel cars are therefore in total costs still cheaper.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #1904
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Yep, as usual it's a tax issue.

For instance, the annual road tax in the Netherlands for a 1200 kg car:

* gasoline € 550
* diesel € 1150
* LPG € 770

It's quite a complicated calculation to determine which option is the cheapest. For instance diesel cars are more fuel efficient, but also have a higher road tax, plus they are generally more expensive due to the purchase duty being higher for a diesel car. Road taxes even vary by province. Another issue with Autogas/LPG is that very few models are available from the factory with LPG. Most cars need to be converted, which usually costs something like € 2000, so it's an investment.

Another issue is that LPG consumption is usually a tad higher than gasoline and LPG cars tend to lose their value pretty fast if it has more than 200.000 kilometers driven. Some LPG cars suffer from a higher than average maintenance cost. Furthermore, LPG is not as widely available as gasoline and diesel in some countries and the tank requires quite a bit of space in the trunk. The range of an LPG-powered car can also be pretty limited, sometimes just over 300 - 350 kilometers between refueling.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #1905
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Wow road tax in Italy for a comparable car is around 200€/year. But gasoline/diesel/LPG are way more expensive.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #1906
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Up to 1.96 €/litre in Italy (unleaded) and 1.80 (diesel).
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Old March 14th, 2012, 08:14 PM   #1907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy55 View Post
Let's have a hope that price's in this year or max next, will fall down on the level that thet were some 2-3 years ago or 2009 when in Poland e-95 cost 0.80€ and LPG 0.40 €
The prices are not going to fall... in the long term, there is nothing else possible then just rising of the fossille fuels prices. The only alternative, currently possible and mastered, that could substitute the lack of fossile fuels are centralalized atomic power plants and decentralized renewable energy sources + more efficent use of energy.

There is however gigantic energy needed to shift the economy from fossile fuels and the shift wont happen over night. Just building one atomic power plant can take more then a decade, especially in Europe.

energy use

energy sources

energy consumption by source over time

oil discoveries

fossile fuels


These figures are only illustrative, I dont have time to produce and search a study with sources. But they might hint you in the right direction.

Last edited by Surel; March 14th, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #1908
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Shale oil in North America has enough potential to feed the world for nearly 100 years at the current consumption rate. Apparently there are 3 trillion (3000 billion) barrels of recoverable oil.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #1909
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As higher oil price is as alternate energy sources are much more profitable. Cheap energy is demoralizing both the industry and final users.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 09:22 PM   #1910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Shale oil in North America has enough potential to feed the world for nearly 100 years at the current consumption rate. Apparently there are 3 trillion (3000 billion) barrels of recoverable oil.
And what are the costs of such a recoveration... . What is the net energy gain on such extraction.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Switek View Post
As higher oil price is as alternate energy sources are much more profitable. Cheap energy is demoralizing both the industry and final users.
The price is not the biggest issue, price is sometimes sluggish in reflecting the real world relations, but inevitably it has to reflect them in the end. The importance in the energy sector is the difference between energy imput and energy output of given process.

Therefore the switch into fossile fuel free economy will require gigantic shifts of resources and gigantic portion of energy we have now at disposal for something else, just to sustain the energy production levels. Simply put, you will have to sacrifice (or make them much more energy efficient) lots of production,transport, leisure, because you will need the energy used in these sectors in the energy production sector.


Last edited by Surel; March 14th, 2012 at 09:29 PM.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #1911
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Today I flled up all my empty tank with unleaded (Euro95) for only €5

of course, not the tank of the car, but of my scooter, which needed less than 4 liters

So actually prices in Bulgaria are
Euro 95 - €1,35
Diesel - €1,38
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Old March 15th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #1912
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Current fuel prices in Mexico as of 14/03/2012 (per liter)

Magna (87 oct): 10.00 MXP/ 0.809 USD/ 0.606 EUR
Premium (91 oct): 10.74 MXP/ 0.868 USD/ 0.651 EUR
Diesel: 10.36 MXP/ 0.838 USD/ 0.628 EUR
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Old March 15th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #1913
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SP95 reached 2€/L yesterday in Paris. That's above 10$/gallon right ?
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Old March 15th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #1914
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Fuel prices inching up in the Netherlands nearly every day. All fuels are at record highs.

Euro95 € 1.845
Super plus € 1.914
Diesel € 1.513
LPG € 0.923
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Old March 15th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #1915
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First time I see 1.9x in NL. That's crazy!

Is there any country where fuel price is more expensive than this? How about Turkey or Japan?
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Old March 15th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #1916
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I'm curious to see how much here costs... gonna check it out on the way home from work.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #1917
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Best Price from 1,419 on Monday to 1,449 currently.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #1918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
First time I see 1.9x in NL. That's crazy!

Is there any country where fuel price is more expensive than this? How about Turkey or Japan?
Italy for sure...
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:23 PM   #1919
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The garage I walk past every day has been showing 139.9 ppl petrol and 146.9 ppl diesel this week. This is on the high side but even the supermarkets are about 136.9 petrol and 144.9 for diesel. Diesel as high as 155.9 on the motorways, and yet our government still want to add another 3ppl tax in August.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #1920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptscout View Post
Best Price from 1,419 on Monday to 1,449 currently.
Diesel was 1.48 at Jet and 1.55 at Shell.
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