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Old March 16th, 2012, 01:46 AM   #1921
Angelos
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Nafplio,Greece

Euro 95 : Cheapest gas station 1.74, most expensive 1.80
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Old March 16th, 2012, 05:57 AM   #1922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
Diesel was 1.48 at Jet and 1.55 at Shell.
Ingolstadt has no high afternoon-discounts (only around 5ct). I think there are too many vehicles and not enough competition.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:14 AM   #1923
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Netherlands, 1 week ago

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Old March 16th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #1924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Is there any country where fuel price is more expensive than this? How about (...) or Japan?
I can't find any current fuel prices in Japan. Based on their previous records in 2008 I assume gasoline will do about 180 yen in Japan. Which is € 1.65 per liter.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #1925
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Gasoline reached today, for the first time, 2€/l in Italy. One single pump on A14 motorway:
http://www.corriere.it/economia/12_m...5f823613.shtml


But it's just the beginning...
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Old March 16th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #1926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Gasoline reached today, for the first time, 2€/l in Italy. One single pump on A14 motorway:
http://www.corriere.it/economia/12_m...5f823613.shtml


But it's just the beginning...
Well Italy imported 8 % of its oil imports from Iran... (edit: indeed I found some other sources citing Italy imports more then 15 % of its crude oil imports from Iran) Those are now gone. Eu as a whole imports 85 % of its crude oil consumption. 5 % of the EU oil consumption comes from Iran...

Instead of 5 % increase in the oil supply amount that would be needed thus EU gets 5 % decrease in the oil supply these months.

And these data are outdated, I think that today it is more adverse for the EU then the data would suggest. (edit, new data here http://ec.europa.eu/energy/observato..._export_en.htm, Iran imports to EU27 last year 4,5 % of total imports).


Last edited by Surel; March 16th, 2012 at 02:50 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #1927
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Everything is simpler. In Italy there is no competition. Price of oil goes up? Price of gasoline gose up. Price of oil drops? Gasoline goes up anyway. The trick is that we are heavily dependent on cars and motorvehicles because we have no alternatives (trains are terrible) so gas companies can raise prices at their will.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #1928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Everything is simpler. In Italy there is no competition. Price of oil goes up? Price of gasoline gose up. Price of oil drops? Gasoline goes up anyway. The trick is that we are heavily dependent on cars and motorvehicles because we have no alternatives (trains are terrible) so gas companies can raise prices at their will.
Is there really no competition between the companies that are delivering gasoline and diesel??? :O. Did they form a cartel? Well then you should inform and use the office that oversees the free trade in Italy, or the EU commision.

Trains have really nothing to do with gasoline price.

Just to make it more illustrative (the answer to the trains). Trains can be powered either by diesel, or electricity. 80 % of electrictity in Italy is produced with fossile fuels, some 60 % then with gas and oil.
pdf http://www.iea.org/stats/pdf_graphs/ITELEC.pdf

picture(too big to direct link here) http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/lib...ics/ITELEC.jpg

Last edited by Surel; March 16th, 2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #1929
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Is there really no competition between the compenies that are delivering gasoline and diesel??? :O. Did they form a cartel? Well then you should inform and use the office that oversees the free trade in Italy, or the EU commision.
Everybody knows that, I'm not a Roberto Saviano who tells things that normal people don't know. Besides, what's the point? Trading commissions do nothing. All politicians have interests in oil trading, or have friends who do. They have no interest in free market.

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Trains have really nothing to do with gasoline price.
Well, if prices of gasoline go up, more people leave the car home and use trains. That article I linked stated that gasoline sales went down by 10%. So 10% of km made by car before, now are made with other means: foot, bicycles, but trains also. So indirectly, prices of gasoline have to do with trains.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #1930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Everybody knows that, I'm not a Roberto Saviano who tells things that normal people don't know. Besides, what's the point? Trading commissions do nothing. All politicians have interests in oil trading, or have friends who do. They have no interest in free market.



Well, if prices of gasoline go up, more people leave the car home and use trains. That article I linked stated that gasoline sales went down by 10%. So 10% of km made by car before, now are made with other means: foot, bicycles, but trains also. So indirectly, prices of gasoline have to do with trains.



You said that the trains form competition to the cars and that that would drive the price of gasoline lower. And I tell you that that any such influence would be marginal, because of many reasons. One of them is that in Italy the electricity production depends on the same costs factors as gasoline production.

We agree that the oil companies want to make a profit, and with them whoever is connected. Thus for them should hold.
(price*sales(after price increase)-costs)">"(price*sales(before price increase)-costs)

When there is a competition, then the price increase is inniciated only by the increase in the costs.

If there indeed is a cartel then the problem is solvable and will not last long.

Last edited by Surel; March 16th, 2012 at 04:18 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #1931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
You said that the trains form competition to the cars and that that would drive the price of gasoline lower.
I never said that, read carefully. I said that price of gasoline, in Italy, NEVER goes down. And I said that people should leave the car home, due to price increases, but most don't because in Italy there aren't real alternatives to cars. Our trains suck, there are no bike paths in the cities.


Quote:
We agree that the oil companies want to make a profit, and with them whoever is connected. Thus for them should hold.
(price*sales(after price increase)-costs)price*sales(before price increase)-costs)

When there is a competition, then the price increase is inniciated only by the increase in the costs.

If there indeed is a cartel then the problam is solvable and will not last long.
I don't think you know how Italy works.
Cartels in Italy last since WW2, probably. When a company raise prices, all other do, and you have to pay because there aren't alternatives.
Nobody has interests in abolishing cartels. Only us, but we have no power.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #1932
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Current record fuel prices in Italy, coupled with high unemployment and relatively low net wages are likely the main cause of the decrease in fuel sales. People refrained non-vital driving like recreational driving, visiting relatives, etcetera.

On the other hand, January + February are always the months with the lowest traffic volumes. I'm not sure to what that 10% decrease is compared. If it's compared to say, October or November, it's a completely natural decrease.

Fuel prices in Italy appear to be much higher than they should. I think the Iran issue may be of influence, but apart from that, € 2+ fuel is really too high compared to other western European countries. Just a few months ago (before the fuel duty in Italy increased), fuel prices in Italy were about 10 cents lower than in the Netherlands and now they're suddenly more than 15 cents higher? I don't think the fuel duty increase was 25 or more cents, was it?
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #1933
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Tax increase was 8 cents (gasoline) and 11 cents (diesel). Plus, VAT was risen from 20% to 21% (and in Italy VAT applies also to fuel duty). So maybe the net increase was near 15 cents.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #1934
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Well you have also Libya imports. I could not find the numbers but it wouldnt be suprise if they were half the prewar numbers. Then every margin decrease counts because you have limited options to take it elswhere. ANd thats the whole point of the oil game.

That VAT would add to it another 2 cents.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #1935
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Current best price for Euro 95 here in Shrewsbury, UK

£1.337/€1.608 per litre

$8.03 per US gallon.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #1936
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By the way, in Italy prices are now mostly affected region by region. Every region put an additional tax on the fuel and now Lombardy and Veneto are the only regions in which you can find fuel for less than 1,8 €/l (at self-service, if you are served the price rise up over 1,85 €/l).

Prices on motorways are higher than in towns, that filling station lies in Marche, so central Italy.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #1937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Tax increase was 8 cents (gasoline) and 11 cents (diesel). Plus, VAT was risen from 20% to 21% (and in Italy VAT applies also to fuel duty). So maybe the net increase was near 15 cents.
Exactly!

They passed the law overnight and then we woke up the morning of 17th December finding prices higher than 1,7 €/l!

By the way, there's an Italian website about fuel prices: http://www.prezzibenzina.it/

The average for Super Unleaded 95 is today 1,861 €/l. The average for Diesel is 1,772 €/l.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 01:47 AM   #1938
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Situation in Italy is awful. I am considering buying a car but with the current prices I would only use it in the weekends.

Today I filled the tank in Spain and I was so happy to pay €1.48 for Euro95, even if prices also skyrocketed here.

Currently in my hometown (prices are similar to Spanish averages):
Euro95 €1.47-1.49
Diesel €1.39-1.41

Cheapest in the region:
Euro95 €1.43
Diesel €1.35
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Old March 20th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #1939
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"competition" in the Netherlands. All major oil companies have the exact same national average.

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Old March 20th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #1940
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For competition is more important the margin they have.
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