INDIANAPOLIS | Light Commuter Rail | App

[cwilson758]

As a member of the Policy Committee that voted today, I would like to share with you all the good news:

Indy-Noblesville commuter rail plan wins first vote

The Indianapolis Regional Transportation Council this morning voted unanimously in favor of a proposal to use diesel engines on a 19-mile rail line from Noblesville to Downtown Indianapolis for the region's first of seven proposed rapid transit lines.

The council consists of 43 officials from local governments and public agencies throughout the eight-county area and provides policy oversight for the Indianapolis Metropolitan Planning Organization. Thirty of its members showed up for the vote -- and everyone voted yes.


The council's decision is an endorsement of the MPO's recommendation for a $160 million system with five to six stations along the Nickel Plate line.

MPO Manager Mike Dearing said the vote was just one of several hurdles before the rail line become a reality.

He said funding still needs to be found and an environmental study needs to be undertaken to determine specific locations for stations, where land needs to be acquired, and the impact on noise and air quality, wetlands, historical properties, flood plains and endangered species.

Still, planners have said the system could be up and running as soon as 2012. At first, older diesel engines would be used.

Eventually, the plan calls for diesel multiple units powered by a built-in engine that is more energy-efficient and produces less pollution and noise than heavier locomotives.

By 2035, the line could have as many as 19 stations and two lines of track costing $690 million and drawing 5,900 riders a day.



All of the members had to make a brief statement concerning the line and all spoke of the economic development issues, pollution and basically "growing up" as a region. Even Mayor Ballard was 100% behind it.

Our next meeting is in October.

[Indywatch]

Okay this will make everyone angry I'm sure, and make people accuse me of being "pro-automobile" which I'm not.

Hmmmm $690,000,000.00 divided by 5,900 people comes out to $116,949.15 per person. Can each rider who benefits from this write a check? I live downtown, work on the Southside and never go to Noblesville. I seriously doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to use the line. Am I supposed to do my tax paying "Patriotic Duty" and help pay for this too when I wont receive any benefit?

[TrafficSignal]

Originally Posted by Indywatch

Okay this will make everyone angry I'm sure, and make people accuse me of being "pro-automobile" which I'm not.

Hmmmm $690,000,000.00 divided by 5,900 people comes out to $116,949.15 per person. Can each rider who benefits from this write a check? I live downtown, work on the Southside and never go to Noblesville. I seriously doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to use the line. Am I supposed to do my tax paying "Patriotic Duty" and help pay for this too when I wont receive any benefit?

Just because the first leg ends in Fishers / Noblesville doesn't mean the southside will never get a leg - the system has to start somewhere.

[ak72]

You have a very valid point, however, in that average ridership is not just people riding every day to work, but people coming down just on the weekend for shopping or a sporting event are factored into that, so the money is spread over more people. Getting downtown easier might bring more people for the Pacers games. You say that you will never use this because it doesn't connect Indy-Southside, but the fact is that the most population outside of downtown is the northside, so it would make sense to start there. If this works the line could be expanded west and south and east.

Speaking of expanding east- Cory, is there any plan to extend the rail out to the airport? Or do you think that may be more along the lines of a light rail/people mover system? Either way I think some link besides bus/taxi needs to be in place. Or at least a bus that runs every 10 minutes.

[hoosier]

Why should my tax dollars go to fixing roads that I will never use?

If that line of argument was used in all public expenditure decisions, NOTHING WOULD EVER BE BUILT!!!

[hoosier]

This is an important step in the creation of commuter rail in Indianapolis. Sure it is years too late and will take forever to be built, if it ever is, but a baby step is better than no step right?

[cwilson758]

Originally Posted by Indywatch

Okay this will make everyone angry I'm sure, and make people accuse me of being "pro-automobile" which I'm not.

Hmmmm $690,000,000.00 divided by 5,900 people comes out to $116,949.15 per person. Can each rider who benefits from this write a check? I live downtown, work on the Southside and never go to Noblesville. I seriously doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to use the line. Am I supposed to do my tax paying "Patriotic Duty" and help pay for this too when I wont receive any benefit?

IndyWatch- As mentioned, this is a start for a much larger system. You have contibuted funds for The Luke; have you used it? Hoosier makes the point that you pay for roads ALL over this state and country. I doubt you have used all of them. Just

because you may not use it doesn't mean that you won't benefit. Indianapolis misses out on millions of federal dollars each year due to the region being a pollution/ozone capitol. By reducing carbon emmissions, the region will begin to offset the polution and hopefully meet the very minimal air quality standards set out by Washington.

Secondly, TOD, transit-oriented development, will DEFINITELY occur along the various lines. This development will increase the property tax revenue that will help to off-set your own tax bills.

Thirdly, the region, once it joins the "true" North American Urban Club, will be classed in a different league and that too will be a big + for high-tech businesses looking at our region.

Finally, Indianapolis will be one of only a handful of Midwest Cities with rail, something that makes it stand out when compared to Cincy, Columbus, Louisville, etc.

[youngandrestless]

Cory, I was just wondering why the older diesels were decided on. From the feedback meeting I went to it looked like they were really pushing for the DMUs to start the new train service.

Coming to my point, I would rather have something done right than on the cheap. Now I see that the plan is to EVENTUALLY move to DMUs, but shouldn't the start of this rail system have a better look/feel then really old technology that might turn off people at the start?

If we start out by skimping on the train itself what stops us from skimping out on the stations and creating something like all of the shelter-less IndyGo stops around the city.

Sorry to be negative on a first post, but it's just something that worries me.

[hoosier]

I would like the line to be electrified as well and be double tracked but because Washington has no money for important infrastructure investments ( a choice it made) it is up to cash strapped local and state governments to fund public transit projects. Indiana is a very reactionary state that is slow to embrace change. It has to be brought kicking and screaming into the present.

[CorrND]

Originally Posted by Indywatch

Okay this will make everyone angry I'm sure, and make people accuse me of being "pro-automobile" which I'm not.

Hmmmm $690,000,000.00 divided by 5,900 people comes out to $116,949.15 per person. Can each rider who benefits from this write a check? I live downtown, work on the Southside and never go to Noblesville. I seriously doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to use the line. Am I supposed to do my tax paying "Patriotic Duty" and help pay for this too when I wont receive any benefit?

$117k per person for the life of the line. What if you divide that cost over 50 years?

50 years * 365 days/year * 5,900 rides/day = 107,675,000 rides

That's about $6.40 per ride, with ancillary societal and environmental benefits.

[SpiderMonkey]

Yay! This is a step in the direction. I never thought I would see the day when there would be 30 of 30 votes in favor of moving forward with commuter rail in Indy.

[arenn]

Cory, congrats on making it past this major milestone.

I've said it before, but cities like Columbus, Cincy, and Louisville peaked too soon when it came to rail. Indy and KC, which were laggards, now have an opportunity to make something reality when $4 gas has people primed for change.

[exit_320]

and Milwaukee continues to fail on this subject.. congrats!

[cjfjapan]

Originally Posted by cwilson758

Thirdly, the region, once it joins the "true" North American Urban Club, will be classed in a different league and that too will be a big + for high-tech businesses looking at our region.

Finally, Indianapolis will be one of only a handful of Midwest Cities with rail, something that makes it stand out when compared to Cincy, Columbus, Louisville, etc.

I'm very happy to see rail transit coming to Indy, but I disagree that this will put Indy in a different league. Three heavy rail lines in Cleveland, a Buffalo subway and a good system in Pittsburgh have done little to help those cities. Nor, in my estimation, has the line in Minneapolis made the city stand out more than it already does. At best, this will add to Indy's strong repertoire of urban amenities, but I doubt it will be a game-changer.

[Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted by arenn

Cory, congrats on making it past this major milestone.

I've said it before, but cities like Columbus, Cincy, and Louisville peaked too soon when it came to rail. Indy and KC, which were laggards, now have an opportunity to make something reality when $4 gas has people primed for change.

Peaked too soon? What?! lol ... Look at these streetcar lines and then look at our most dense neighborhoods:

http://www.cincinnativiews.net/image...y%20routes.jpg

[cwilson758]

Originally Posted by arenn

Cory, congrats on making it past this major milestone.

I've said it before, but cities like Columbus, Cincy, and Louisville peaked too soon when it came to rail. Indy and KC, which were laggards, now have an opportunity to make something reality when $4 gas has people primed for change.

Arenn-

Thanks, but I can hardly take credit; that goes to the MPO. I am just a member of the committee.

Cincinnatus-

I see where Arenn is coming from in the sense that those cities brought the rail votes up at a time when gas was nowhere near where it is today. Face it, in this region of the US, we love our cars and to sell a system, eventhough it seems common sense to us, is a battle unless you are aided by a floundering "system."

[cailes]

I sincerely hope that the people driving this thing, can find the funds ina place other than a tax.

I only say this because with the property tax changes adding to sales tax and the stadium being built adding another 1%, its getting EXPENSIVE to shop for anything in Indianapolis these days. I know its a few cents here and a few cents there, but it adds up when you look at your receipt.

That said, I am still for the rail line. This is a big deal and it shows our pears in the midwest, and even those further out watching, that indy is commited to progress, once again

[arenn]

Cincinnatus, Cincy had proposed a major light rail line (not the streetcar) a while back, no? IIRC it was on the ballot and voted down. Whatever the case, it seems like there was a major push a while back, then it just died.

[Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted by cwilson758

I see where Arenn is coming from in the sense that those cities brought the rail votes up at a time when gas was nowhere near where it is today. Face it, in this region of the US, we love our cars and to sell a system, eventhough it seems common sense to us, is a battle unless you are aided by a floundering "system."

Ohhh ... lol, obviously I was on a difference page completely!

Well, I don't understand then since a streetcar system is still in the works ... with LRT in discussions in regards to our subway tunnels?

[confused04]

Are there any provisions for this line to possibly be extended in case of the likely expansion of the suburbs? The North Star Line currently does not extend to St. Cloud in Minnesota but there are plans to extend it that far because planners figured the corridor would begin to infill. 19 miles just seems pretty short to justify that kinda investment.

I am glad though that more cities are putting the money in to advance mass transit. Sure its expensive, but what isn't these days. I find it laughable that people complain about the subsidization of mass transit when highways and roads are for the most part COMPLETELY subsidized. Yea, some roads of tolls, but to my knowledge, no toll road pays for itself or even comes close to revenue generated by mass transit. Figures I've seen for MetroTransit have said about 1/3 to 40% of the operating costs are covered by fares, I don't think tolls cover 40% of road costs. It only makes sense to start investing in mass transit.