Bradford | Westfield Bradford Shopping Centre, offices and apartments | Appr

[Sadbrad]

Any chance of an update bantam77?

[lazygamer]

Originally Posted by Sadbrad

Any chance of an update bantam77?

13 hours and counting

[Sadbrad]

All very very quiet on the Westfield front

[MarkJF]

Originally Posted by Sadbrad

All very very quiet on the Westfield front

There is nothing going on at Forster Square, there'd be infrastructure arriving if Westfield were to be back on site as per council timescales.

Looking back to late last year, they (Westfield) were not intending to build any more malls in the USA citing, amongst other things, lack of (economic) growth. They went on to call Europe "riskier", economic growth in the USA would, I imagine, be far more likely and sooner than in the UK, never mind provincial north UK. They are following the money, they are entering Brazil next not Bradford.

Does anybody have information about whether the land can be reclaimed from Westfield? Is there a timescale in which "something" must happen? Because they are not going to build a Mall.

[Sadbrad]

A timescale contract was never signed by the Council., Westfield own the land, so basically they can do as they please.

The only talk of buying back the land was as per this highlight back in 2009.....

Bradford Council last night demanded MP Gerry Sutcliffe explain himself after he claimed Westfield had discussed offering the stalled Broadway shopping centre site back to the authority.

Council chief executive Tony Reeves has “categorically” denied any discussions have taken place about taxpayers buying back the Broadway site.

And he urged Mr Sutcliffe to “clarify” his statements about the £320 million development which is regarded as being fundamental to the city centre’s regeneration.

In a strongly worded statement, Mr Reeves said Westfield remained committed despite the “frustrating” delays in building the shopping centre and had spent £80m so far, of which £60m had been invested in preparatory site works in the past year.

There are around 30 major shopping schemes in the development pipeline in England at present and all bar one or two of them are currently on hold due to the recession, he said.

“There are good reasons for the delay here in Bradford, all of which are attributed to the global credit crunch and subsequent recession,” said Mr Reeves.
“Retail rents nationally have fallen by more than a third, retail land values nationally have dropped by more than 50 per cent and retailers’ confidence and, therefore, their preparedness to sign leases on new premises has disappeared nationally.

“These issues mean that schemes such as Westfield Bradford and all of the others on hold nationwide, are simply not viable in the short term.

“There have categorically not been any discussions between Westfield and the Council about the Council buying back the Broadway site.

“The Council is asking Gerry Sutcliffe MP to clarify the statements that he has made today regarding the Westfield development in Bradford.”

Mr Sutcliffe was not available to comment last night.

He spoke out about Westfield to the BBC’s Inside Out programme after Roger Owen, former group property director of supermarket giant Morrisons, said he had had a conversation with the Sports Minister, in which he revealed one of Westfield’s options was to sell back the site to Bradford Council.
In the programme, aired last night, Mr Sutcliffe stood by the claim. He said: “It’s my understanding that Westfield are prepared to discuss moving out if there’s an appropriate agreement.”

[idlemoor]

Originally Posted by Sadbrad

“It’s my understanding that Westfield are prepared to discuss moving out if there’s an appropriate agreement.”

At a wild guess, about a hundred million appropriate agreements.

As I've said before, holding a city to ransom until you're paid to bugger off is potentially more profitable than building a half-let shopping centre in a desperate city.

In the meanwhile, there's a nice little earner to be made from tax losses. Fantasy Steelwork, for example, is a great way to generate a tax loss. Just be sure to cancel before any actual steel turns up.

And of course, each AU$ you spend on fantasy steelwork does the work of two. One for the tax loss, and one for the eventual ransom.

[Sadbrad]

It clearly shows that Westfield were prepared to dump the project back in 2009 had the price been right

[donnybradford]

The council should buy back the site and do a joint venture for a crossrail, central station / retail / courts / office developement. With new stations at Low Moor, Laisterdyke and Apperley Bridge, I think it would make a lot of sense.

[MarkJF]

Originally Posted by donnybradford

The council should buy back the site and do a joint venture for a crossrail, central station / retail / courts / office developement. With new stations at Low Moor, Laisterdyke and Apperley Bridge, I think it would make a lot of sense.

I thought the Apperley Bridge Station had been approved but is only a "stop" between Shipley and Leeds on the Airedale line?

It'll be very interesting to see the next council statement, pressure will be building (even if Westfield isn't) now we are into February.................

[islandexpress]

The plan is for app bridge and kirkstall forge to be served half hourly by Leeds - Bradford fs trains. Not by skipton or ilkley trains.

[idlemoor]

You need to be realistic why a buy back and alternative scheme isn't going to happen for the foreseeable future.

"Compensation" the council would have to pay for money already spent (and already written off) by Westfield ... at least £100m (in 2009 they were already claiming £80m for preparatory groundwork, they would probably want a lot more than that for "opportunity cost".)

Legal fees the council would have to find, because Westfield would sure as hell fight it ... £5m-£10m and three years to see it through appeals etc

Remodelling of site because Westfield already made a Westfield-shaped, water filled, rust-lined concrete hole that isn't suitable for anything else ... £80m

So you're already talking about more than the cost of Crossrail (£140m) before you even start to build Crossrail. Add in smaller alternative retail schemes and the total cost vastly exceeds the £300m cost of Westfield, with a ten year timescale even if you started tomorrow.

You think the council should embark on a £400m punt, when the council hasn't got the legal powers and can't even afford £4m to fix the Central Library.

Get real. The council is powerless. Yes, that was the council's fault in the first place, but we are now where we are now. We're screwed, and there's no way out except to hope that the Aussies sell it on to a more competent developer.

EDIT. Ps. Your super soaraway T&A, in its copious spare time away from asking hard questions about the non-start in January, has today managed to write up "The favourite feel-good tune for people in Yorkshire needing a lift" in a "YouGov poll being published today by Samaritans". It turns out to be the Westfield Bradford Songbook --

Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now
Abba’s Dancing Queen
Gloria Gaynor’s I Will Survive
The Monkees’ Daydream Believer
Don’t Look Back In Anger by Oasis

[Sadbrad]

The next statement needs to come from Westfield, because there is far too much speculation from the Council and its cohorts which Westfield rarely confirm or deny.

Sooner rather than later, Westfield are going to have to anounce where they are at and what is going to happen.

[MarkJF]

Originally Posted by islandexpress

The plan is for app bridge and kirkstall forge to be served half hourly by Leeds - Bradford fs trains. Not by skipton or ilkley trains.

Thanks for that info, tbh I am so used to catching trains from Shipley, east and west that I forgot that it goes to south to Bradford too.

[MarkJF]

Originally Posted by idlemoor

Get real. The council is powerless. Yes, that was the council's fault in the first place, but we are now where we are now. We're screwed, and there's no way out except to hope that the Aussies sell it on to a more competent developer.

We won't find a more comepetent developer than Westfield, they picked the scheme up from the previous incompetent developer.

A shame that the centre is screwed, it's now far worse off than before the space was cleared, all civic gravitas was lost along with those 1960's structures, dull as they were, at least they were big! As IM says, the hole is now a big problem and will cost more than Bradford has or can borow just to be "de-holed".

[Sadbrad]

Interesting, this November highlight seems to be an update on the talks anounced back in September ....

"AUSTRALIAN developer Westfield is close to signing a joint venture deal with Dutch firm Meyer Bergman as part of revived plans to build a new shopping centre in Bradford.
The two firms are in talks to split the cost of the £250 million project and are eyeing a 2015 opening date, according to a close source."

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

[idlemoor]

Sadbrad, that article [1] is dated 13 Nov 2011. But just four days later, in the Yorkshire Post, on 17 Nov 2011 [2], there was this:

"The Westfield directors declined to comment on reports last month that Dutch investor Meyer Bergman was interested in taking a £120m stake in the retail scheme to push forward the 550,000 sq ft development in a joint venture."

"Close to signing" on the 13th. "Declined to comment" on the 17th. Then ten weeks of silence, no activity, and a strong rumour of cancelled steelwork.

The Westfield full year financials will be out in a couple of weeks, so there may be more information soon. Look for changes in the budgets and running order of "near term project commencement" -- see the bottom of http://seekingalpha.com/article/3060...all-transcript for what the running order was at 3Q2011, 7th November last year.

The 2015 opening date, if it was accurately reported, is a bit of a give-away. The YP article cites a two-year build, with opening at Easter or Christmas. So, completion in 2015 would imply a start in 2013, not 2012.

[1] The correct url is actually http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdis...3d%3d&feed=rss -- the original article was in the Sunday Express.
[2] http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/busin...ther_1_3976523

[Sadbrad]

I was beginning to think there might be a little light at the end of the tunnel and I agree that the indication would be a start in 2013 rather than 2012 which is possibly where this is now heading.

It certainly appears that Westfield have one serious tangled web in this matter.

Cancelled steel - Where is the rumour, Bantam's latest is not suggestive of such, if its true then maybe its because the start is 2013, by which time a lot could change such as further delay hence the cancellation?

If the start is not soon or in 2012 and 2013 anounced, then Westfield will have lost all credibility in that we've heard it all before and too many times over.

Westfield and the Council should be promptly brought to account for this farce, because who will believe a 2013 start?!

[idlemoor]

For avoidance of doubt I was referring to this:

Originally Posted by bantam77

Pint anyone?!?!!?
Can't say anymore..........yet

"Cancelled steelwork" is entirely my interpretation, and is quite possibly erroneous. But those smilies look very much like bantam77 has been told, out of the blue: Stop work right now. What else could that post mean?

If this was just a routine delay whilst prelets catch up, surely they would run the steelwork drawings to completion and then pause, not stop them unexpectedly.

[Sadbrad]

I don't know what to think anymore, Westfield need to come clean sooner rather than later.

[idlemoor]

Originally Posted by Sadbrad

Westfield need to come clean sooner rather than later.

They didn't last time. Why do you expect this time to be different?