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Old January 2nd, 2009, 11:18 PM   #961
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Paradoxically investments (imo) are kinds of solutions (how to win with crysis). I'm sure, that Dubai will be in the future world's biggest financial center. Looking forward to progress in NHT :P
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 12:30 PM   #962
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Buildings materials are cheaper than few months/year ago. Goverment can build more(like ways, subway etc.) .That will cause, that investors looking for good places to invest, will do it in Dubai It's chance for this city. (I heard this opinion. I think it's possible).
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Btw. sry for my english I'm not drunk
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 09:39 PM   #963
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I'm sure, that Dubai will be in the future world's biggest financial center.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 10:32 PM   #964
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Dubai GDP for 2008 Dh135 billion
New York GDP for 2008 $1.1 trillion

UAE GDP Dh697.3bn or US$237.5bn

Dubai is nowhere near the world's biggest financial centers.


edit. Oh, I forgot the USA GDP for 2008 US$13.9 trillion

Last edited by AvanGard; January 3rd, 2009 at 10:39 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 12:27 AM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvanGard View Post
Dubai GDP for 2008 Dh135 billion
New York GDP for 2008 $1.1 trillion

UAE GDP Dh697.3bn or US$237.5bn

Dubai is nowhere near the world's biggest financial centers.


edit. Oh, I forgot the USA GDP for 2008 US$13.9 trillion
Just compare the growth of them in two graphs. I think when you just predict the same growth of the last few years for the next ones, then Dubai will overtake New York one day. Nobody said it will already happen within the next 10 or 20 years, but it could happen in the future.

Does anybody have some useful data to compare the real growth?
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Old January 4th, 2009, 01:25 AM   #966
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Just compare the growth of them in two graphs. I think when you just predict the same growth of the last few years for the next ones, then Dubai will overtake New York one day. Nobody said it will already happen within the next 10 or 20 years, but it could happen in the future.

Does anybody have some useful data to compare the real growth?
It not all about growth. It is about sustainable growth. In the past couple of years, Dubai’s economy annual growth is between 16% and 18%(amazing). New York’s this year (2008) was around 0.8%. But let us not compare Dubai to NY. It is simply an example.

(2008 statistics/not based on 100% official information)
Dubai GDP Dh135billion=US$38 billion
Dh135 billion*18%=~Dh24 billion= US$6.5billion growth
NY GDP US$1.1trilion*0.8%=~US$8 billion growth

I really cannot see Dubai as a big financial capital. It would take decades and some kind of extraordinary shift in world capital for that to happen. It’s attractive to businesses now but it may prove less attractive in the future. Moreover, Dubai is no exception. The whole region is full with booming economies; competition will be an ever increasing factor in setting economic policies. Of course, I can’t say it’s not possible but if it were to happen, it won’t be just Dubai, not even UAE will be enough. There would have to be some majour union formed, so that it could rival the Americas, Europe, and Asia. And oil is running out. (In general terms for the Middle East (in say the next ~50years)) The reality is that the non-oil profits are not growing with the expected rates, no matter how ridiculous this may sound.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 01:59 AM   #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvanGard View Post
Dubai GDP for 2008 Dh135 billion
New York GDP for 2008 $1.1 trillion

UAE GDP Dh697.3bn or US$237.5bn

Dubai is nowhere near the world's biggest financial centers.


edit. Oh, I forgot the USA GDP for 2008 US$13.9 trillion

First of all, comparing America to UAE is like comparing Russia to Jamaica... The size difference and the natural resources differences are enormous!

Second of all, It took Dubai around 4/5 years to build the World's Tallest Tower and 100s of projects and 8 years later, Ground Zero is still on the Ground!

Third of all, New York is New York, 60 years ago Dubai was a desert, so give them a break!

Forth of all, The United States is more than $10,000,000,000,000 (10 trillion) in debt and borrowing money from China to pay for a War ect...


So please don't give me your uneducated analysis that are useless. America can't erect a building for 12 years, UAE can build you a whole city in 12 years. So yes in a way, Dubai has one of the highest GDPs and one day will be a success in overtaking the politically corrupt USA.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 02:33 AM   #968
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Dubai is in trouble. Investors are leaving and banks are wanting their money back. People are not spending as much and on top of the, oil has fallen dramatically.

Banks are wanting and beginning to demand their money back. 2009 will be a rough year for Dubai and the UAE.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...bai_new_year_1

With that said, this is a cool project.

Last edited by Dimension; January 4th, 2009 at 02:41 AM.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 04:25 AM   #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel_zg View Post
Buildings materials are cheaper than few months/year ago. Goverment can build more(like ways, subway etc.) .That will cause, that investors looking for good places to invest, will do it in Dubai It's chance for this city. (I heard this opinion. I think it's possible).
--------
Btw. sry for my english I'm not drunk

Yeah, that was actually a problem with that lame freedom tower. Building costs were rising an average of 1% a month and when you're talking all the 0's after this, that 1% is a lot. I'm not sure what they are at now, but I know if copper especially has gone down, then that will be a cost relief for projects, same with the other metals involved.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 05:48 AM   #970
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Quote:
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So yes in a way, Dubai has one of the highest GDPs and one day will be a success in overtaking the politically corrupt USA.
Funniest thing I've read in a while.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 06:08 AM   #971
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Hmmmm these arabs are going insane with their projects. :O
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Old January 4th, 2009, 07:18 AM   #972
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This thing scares me. It looks like a Stars Wars hub to me.
I didn't mean its design, I meant its concept :s
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Old January 4th, 2009, 09:47 AM   #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvanGard View Post
It not all about growth. It is about sustainable growth. In the past couple of years, Dubai’s economy annual growth is between 16% and 18%(amazing). New York’s this year (2008) was around 0.8%. But let us not compare Dubai to NY. It is simply an example.
Yes, you can't compare an emerging economy with a mature one.

Here is an example from bodybuilding:

If you go to the gym for the first time, in 3 months you might add an inch to your arms, if you train well. If you take that logic, then in 2 years you could overtake Dexter Jackson, but in reality you can't sustain the same growth when you get bigger.

P.S.
The more reasonable comparation is with China, if they keep the current growth, they overtake USA in 25 years. (but I doubt they will able to sustain that growth for another 25 years)
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Old January 4th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #974
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I agree 100%
I just want to add something about the economy setback in Dubai and how we can compare Dubai and NY;

This exact senario happened in Dubai in 2001 2002, businesses were reducing operation and rent was falling some rate, then its a cycle that happens world wide every 5 to 7 years.
I think loglicaly now, we cannot bet on investment rates to be compariable to 2006/ 2007. but according to history, the cycle will roll again within couple of years as soon as oil recover its high demand and cash is more available.
Dubai government did lose alot in the last crisis and a set back is a natural thing to happen at least until the next budget 2010.
Lets not compare Dubai with NY because the base that NY is serving financialy is a country with 300 milion people. Dubai in the other hand if we agreed its the hub of middle east financial center is not serving more than 40 million people in the whole region. But I guess we can only argue in terms of money investment amounts in total(NOT BUDGET, budget is money that drained to keep staing alive and investment is the surplus which spent to grow!) which I think it might be comparable with NY.
Then the higher the budget raise in Dubai, the higher the government money tied towards daily expenses not expansion, then the growth rate eventually will go down.
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Last edited by saeed; January 4th, 2009 at 11:03 AM.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 11:59 AM   #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest89 View Post
First of all, comparing America to UAE is like comparing Russia to Jamaica... The size difference and the natural resources differences are enormous!

Second of all, It took Dubai around 4/5 years to build the World's Tallest Tower and 100s of projects and 8 years later, Ground Zero is still on the Ground!

Third of all, New York is New York, 60 years ago Dubai was a desert, so give them a break!

Forth of all, The United States is more than $10,000,000,000,000 (10 trillion) in debt and borrowing money from China to pay for a War ect...


So please don't give me your uneducated analysis that are useless. America can't erect a building for 12 years, UAE can build you a whole city in 12 years. So yes in a way, Dubai has one of the highest GDPs and one day will be a success in overtaking the politically corrupt USA.
First of all to your first of all. That is precisely my point, you cannot compare them. My post was in response to the comment that “Dubai can become the world biggest financial center”. I gave an example with the current one just to spot the vast differences. And there are many more cites after NY and before Dubai.

Second of all to your second of all. This has no relevance to what was being discussed. Your logic is that Dubai is a better financial center cause it can build skyscrapers faster?!?!

Third of all to your third of all. Give’m a break. Read first of all again. I personally admire Dubai. For their innovative thinking, their boldness and desire to create something that others simply dream of. So it was never my intention to make fun of Dubai.

Fourth of all to your fourth of all. Dubai is also in dept. $10 billion. Who isn’t. But again, that is not the point here. You failed to understand anything.

So it seems you have uneducated analysis since you failed to indentify the true purpose and meaning of my post. You simply saw what you wanted to see this is called prejudges.

With that out of the window, let us get back on topic.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #976
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the only, only thing that can change anything and really boost up dubai is when they end all the buildings and many companies will move their bases to dubai.

that actually can happen. and when we look at the amount of buildings in there that are build, the amount of office area that is currently under construction, and soon will be done, than this may be the case. some companies from all over the world may just move the main offices to dubai just for showing off... and also to have it closer to other companies. if the tax rate's were competetive to other countries, then the curent dubai's growth still based on oil may soon be pretty small in comparison to what will happen.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #977
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Should be flattering to Dubai when people comparing the city with New York.

When the crisis is over and Dubai still growths i hope some blind people will stop blaming Dubai for having an oil dependend economy.

But i am pessimistic. They will find something else and 5 years later with high oil prices, they will again blame oil for the boom.

But who cares, the economyof the UAE should growth by around 3% in 2009. (according to Deutsche Bank)
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Old January 4th, 2009, 04:50 PM   #978
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a lot of buildings dont make a city!
if i got 100 beers, that wont make a party if im alone. well i could drink them all myself and have fun, but it definately aint healthy (thats how dubai could end imo). but if the beers are free or cheap (in dubai tax) people might come to drink with me if they know that i have 100 free beers here ( advertising). but if the people are depressed (financial crisis), im not so sure if they come.
so in the end, i have no idea whtas going to happen with dubai. lets wait and see. but i dont wanna see anyone cry in 20 years or jump off the 1000m buildings, because they knew how risky their "vision" was.
enough of my stupid ideas, but please, if you build a 1000m building, give it a nice design. ant atm i dont really like the design, looks like a more or less normal building made 10 times higher.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #979
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but i dont wanna see anyone cry in 20 years or jump off the 1000m buildings, because they knew how risky their "vision" was.
What vision did they had 20 years ago, compared to what they have achieved now?
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Old January 5th, 2009, 01:30 AM   #980
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Dubai growth has been outstanding and remarkable in the past decade or so. The point that is was just a town at the edge of the desert until just a generation ago is well taken. From very modest beginnings we are seeing a world class city rising.

Comparisons with New York, London, Hong Kong, etc should not be made. Dubai will never have the vast historic and cultural infrastructure of New York - museums, galleries, fashion industry, opera, ballet, music venues, legitimate and experimental theater, etc. etc. Remember the US has something like 310,000,000 people; how many people live in the UAE?

What Dubai has done was manage to promote itself with tall buildings and mega events so that it has captured a lot of attention and the world's spotlight on a city that is not that large nor politically influential. In that regard Dubai is a great success and it's citizens have a right to be proud.
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