daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 11th, 2008, 06:56 PM   #21
Isek
Registered User
 
Isek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 1226

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Advantages:

More efficient (higher voltage)
No clutter or hazards at track level
Not affected by snow & ice (unlike 3rd / 4th rail)
Not affected by spurious 'earths' or flooding (unlike 3rd / 4th rail)

Disadvantages:

When wires are brought down (debilitating until re-erected)
Can jump quite far and is lethal (hazardous to workers)
Restricts access if a train has derailed
Actually the biggest disadvantage of overhead wires is that your tunnel cross section must be wider by at least 25 % making it much more costly to build!
Isek no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 11th, 2008, 11:02 PM   #22
Augusto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PAR THR KL SIN
Posts: 393
Likes (Received): 47

An other disadvantage is that it can not handle high electric power (I'm not talking about voltage). In Paris on the central part of line C the overhead had to be replaced by an overhead third rail because the cables could not deal with the power needed by the powerful EMUs every 2 min at peak hours. There have been a lot of cable breaking because of their high temperature.
Augusto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 11th, 2008, 11:51 PM   #23
Federman
Registered User
 
Federman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,558
Likes (Received): 175

Buenos Aires Metro



Federman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 11th, 2008, 11:55 PM   #24
Mahratta
Ayatollah
 
Mahratta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,125
Likes (Received): 17

Delhi metro uses overhead.
__________________
Leuven | Antwerp | Amsterdam | Bruges | Gent | Brussels | Chicago | Costa Rica | Vasai | Bombay
Mahratta no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 11th, 2008, 11:59 PM   #25
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
S-Tog, FEVE and EuskoTren are not real metros.
EuskoTren is a comuter(?) ,

FEVE runs diferential services (actualy most ex.feve urban railways are already converted to local METRO systems so we can exclude FEVE)

S-Tog ... hummm ....


You could ADD Tokyo 2 urban transit companies and London Underground/Overground/DLR from the "real metro" list also ...



^Infact most of the systems are a mixture of "suburban" "tram/LRT" and "metro" so one must be very "polite" when claiming such nonsense as "not a real metro" about any given system.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 12:00 AM   #26
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isek View Post
Actually the biggest disadvantage of overhead wires is that your tunnel cross section must be wider by at least 25 % making it much more costly to build!
considering that not all tunnels are narrow circular london tube it doesn't seem that big a disadvantage compared to all the ineficiencies of 3rd rail pickup at "low-DC" voltages.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 02:49 AM   #27
FREKI
Lord of Legoland
 
FREKI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 10,679
Likes (Received): 6384

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
S-Tog, FEVE and EuskoTren are not real metros.
Ehmm... huh? _?


Metro = "metropolitan railroad"

S Tog map
__________________
Recent FREKI PRESENTS threads:
Denmark - Dubai - The Wild Wild West - Prague - Phuket - Shanghai - Planet Earth

Last edited by FREKI; October 12th, 2008 at 03:34 AM.
FREKI no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 04:31 AM   #28
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
considering that not all tunnels are narrow circular london tube it doesn't seem that big a disadvantage compared to all the ineficiencies of 3rd rail pickup at "low-DC" voltages.
I don't really understand your point?

Are you saying that the sub-surface lines of LU are at a disadvantage or something?
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #29
micro
Registered User
 
micro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamburg, .de Home: everywhere
Posts: 1,258
Likes (Received): 106

Advantage: Higher voltage in overhead wires also means fewer power substations.
micro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 05:51 AM   #30
micro
Registered User
 
micro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamburg, .de Home: everywhere
Posts: 1,258
Likes (Received): 106

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
Palma de Mallorca

That one looks rather like an overhead rail than like a wire. Interesting variation.
micro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 05:55 AM   #31
micro
Registered User
 
micro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamburg, .de Home: everywhere
Posts: 1,258
Likes (Received): 106

Frankfurt

micro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2008, 06:49 AM   #32
kegan
Registered User
 
kegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington
Posts: 749
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
That one looks rather like an overhead rail than like a wire. Interesting variation.
The rigid overhead takes up less space than standard catenary, allowing for smaller tunnels.
kegan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #33
serdar samanlı
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vienna
Posts: 792
Likes (Received): 21

Marmaray will also use catenary I suppose.
serdar samanlı no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2008, 01:51 PM   #34
serdar samanlı
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vienna
Posts: 792
Likes (Received): 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Almost all of Tokyo's system has overhead catenary. Out of the fourteen lines Tokyo Metro + Toei lines, only three do not run on overhead catenary (Ginza, Marunouchi, and Oedo Lines). The Ginza and Marunouchi Lines were the first two subways built and use third rail, while the Oedo Line uses linear motor technology. All lines built later were standardized with the suburban/commuter/private networks to facilitate through-servicing, which is why most of the stock designs, gauges, etc. are all quite similar... This carried through to the power systems, since the suburban/commuter/private networks were all overhead catenary.

Tokyo Metro 05 series, used on the Tokyo Metro Tozai Line


Toyo Rapid 2000 series, based on the Tokyo Metro 05 series. The trains runs through-services with the Tokyo Metro Tozai Line.
Tokyo metro must be the largest subway with overhead catenary
serdar samanlı no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 05:53 AM   #35
Bitxofo
¡Viva el metro!
 
Bitxofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alderaan BCN BKK ATH PAR LON SYD SFO CPT TYO SCL CHC BUE SCG SVQ AGP BDN
Posts: 37,520
Likes (Received): 3663

Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
That one looks rather like an overhead rail than like a wire. Interesting variation.
It is rigid overhead wire, we have got it in Barcelona Metro since 2000 approx.
__________________
www.urbanrail.net
Εγώ είμαι ο Νταβόρ!!
David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
Bitxofo está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #36
Gil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,120
Likes (Received): 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by diz View Post
Manila LRT and MRT Network


The stations in LRT Yellow really really need a facelift.. they're old.. from the 70s.
LRT 1/Yellow opened in 1984, not in the 70's. They may have been designed in the 70's though! A facelift may be nice, but the line is mostly functional. Given the limited resources I'd rather see line extensions.
Gil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 07:53 AM   #37
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I don't really understand your point?

Are you saying that the sub-surface lines of LU are at a disadvantage or something?
No .... LU is on the same level as many other metro systems buit around the 3rd rail feeder principle ... there simply is not enough space between the ceiling os the cars and the top of the tunnels to instal a proper pantograph and catenary in most of them.

but I was simply replying to Isek's argumentation that it was a major problem ...

LU actualy could benefit enormously from a 25Kv catenary pickup on the outer "surface" routes ... and I'm only talking about electric consumption here.

And (pardon my heresy) I think that more usefull than the catenary would be a system with low floor vehicles on those d*mn tube tunnels.

Some metropolitans have to live for eternity with their non standard "features" ...
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:08 PM   #38
Manila-X
PINOY MOD
 
Manila-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MANILA
Posts: 14,445
Likes (Received): 2615

The MTR actually run on overhead wires

http://www.gakei.com













__________________
Manila X-Perience, My collection of images around Metro Manila

Representing The Pinoy Community here in SSC!
Manila-X no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:03 PM   #39
lordcreso
Registered User
 
lordcreso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bilbao
Posts: 4,226
Likes (Received): 974

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
It is rigid overhead wire, we have got it in Barcelona Metro since 2000 approx.
In Bilbao Metro (Line 2) too.
__________________
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lordcreso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 10:37 PM   #40
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
And (pardon my heresy) I think that more usefull than the catenary would be a system with low floor vehicles on those d*mn tube tunnels..


'Space Train Concept' was planned for the Victoria line but was scrapped because of the semi-privatization of the network (no company was going to pay for something so unique and experimental). It would have required lowering the platforms of all stations and I don't see how it would have increase capacity, as currently the floor takes up the widest part of the tunnel, this would have been lower, meaning the floor would take up a narrower section of the tunnel... All it would mean is a little extra head space for those standing at the edge, which IMO isn't worth the cost or hassle...
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium