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Old December 3rd, 2008, 01:05 AM   #181
HwyIsraelFreak
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I'm not sure if it was officially approved, but I would assume so. New signage and sharks teeth have been popping up; why would they be if it wasn't approved?
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 02:03 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HwyIsraelFreak View Post
I'm not sure if it was officially approved, but I would assume so. New signage and sharks teeth have been popping up; why would they be if it wasn't approved?
Shark's teeth were added to the MUTCD in 2003. Where the 2008 proposed revisions are concerned, you are better off going to the presentation PDFs to see the suggested changes, because the PDFs containing the proposed text and figures actually include all of the material proposed for inclusion in the revised MUTCD, including material that is being left unchanged.

It is also quite common for new traffic control devices to be used in advance of their inclusion in the MUTCD. FHWA's Interim Approvals process provides one legal mechanism for this, and of course many state DOTs and local agencies ignore the rules for experimentation.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #183
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My first post here, because I just had to say "bravo" to this! Thought I was the only person who cared about things like being able to tell what state or country you're in by things like the route markers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman159 View Post

If you're planning on driving in a foreign country, it's only common sense to familiarize yourself with the peculiarities and the traffic code of that country - and learn a few useful words in that language. I would consider it arrogant not to do so!
....
Wouldn't it suck if roads looked exactly the same all over the world? I find it charming that every state or country has its own little quirks when it comes to signage, numbering, etc.


cheers,
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So.... I'm a bit of a road geek, and a fairly international person (I love foreign languages and respect linguistic diversity...) who doesn't get to travel as often as I like. And I enjoy driving for its own sake. Not a daily commute - mine's a five-block walk - but every weekend I'm wandering around the Middle Atlantic.

I discovered this forum - forget how - a couple of weeks ago and have been rolling my eyes at those who think the US should convert to alpha-numeric route numbering (no - just no - you touch the Pennsylvania keystone over my dead body); or adopt the metric system (not that our system's better, but we're used to it, and, like Snowman said, visitors can get to know it just like I make a point of learning at least how to say hello, please and thank you in the local language, and speak French when I'm in Quebec or France); or adopt European signage conventions because they make more sense (uh, is three different colors of background depending on the type of road, plus way too many destinations to read at European speeds, really more logical?) Just like I've been rolling my eyes for years at the European Union's trying to standardize license plates in the name of road safety (Has any American or Canadian here ever seen a suggestion that different states and provinces using different colors is dangerous?)

Okay, end of lecture. I'm sure I'll have more to say in the same vein, and in other veins, in days, months and years to come. Cheers....
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Old April 8th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
It's just hard for me to understand how someone can be so much against progress. In America, people are reluctant to accept something new, something that has proven to be better in other parts of the world. There is no logic behind this, just the irrational fear of change, however useful it may prove to be in the future.

Modern roundabout is a good example of this stubbornness. You ask drivers' opinion before it is implement to replace a 4-way STOP intersection, and most of them will tell you that it is not a good idea. The argument? "We are used to this, and it works". Luckily, the DOT is more likely to listen to an engineer's opinion and not to that of "Joe-the-Plumber" nonsense, so they put roundabout anyway. You ask people's opinion again in a short while, and somehow 9 out of 10 drivers (the actual numbers) are actually happy with the way it has worked out. You ask them if they want to go back to 4-way STOPs, and the majority says that they don't. Same with the pictorial signs - the notion that somehow if you start using them, you will cease to be Americans and instead turn into socialistic multicultural Europeans is the idiocracy at its best.

I am not sure if you, Paddington, have enough cognitive skills to understand simple logic, but try to comprehend this - whatever makes the roads safer, even if it means giving-up your precious American heritage, should be implemented. The FHWA is pretty slow in adopting some useful changes; nevertheless, they are inching toward the XXI century. And when everything is not going your way, what is left for you, Paddington? Wonder about international forums showing your ignorance?
But sitting in a country where you're either an immigrant, a permanent resident, or a long-term visitor, insisting that things like Interstate shields that the vast majority of people you're sharing the roads with are used to be changed for no better reason than that you're used to something different is arguably in itself ignorant....
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 09:23 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Good god I hate this sign! To me the first three thoughts that pop up when I see it are: turnaround, dead end, or can't move forward/ road closed.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 01:02 PM   #186
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As for textual signs, I also dislike them. They take too much time to understand. When one drives, one uses brain differently than when one reads, and being forced to switch between those irritates me when I'm tired.

Somebody mentioned US signs being idiomatic, using words clear only to locals - I must say I also find them confusing, and I guess some must be completely opaque to beginners in English.

See this:

First association: lost of white powder ahead of me. But seriously though, is there a speed limit ahead, a closed area where speed limit applies, or what?


Another:

It may be perfectly clear to US drivers, but think about it, language-wise it's not logical. Does it mean "do not overtake"?


Another one

Do I bring my girlfriend to this area, or what? Seriously, what does that mean?

I'm not into "ours are better than yours" type of discussion, but text signs IMHO should be reserved to unusual occurances, e.g. "bison ahead", or "deep holes in the pavement", accompanied with a speed limit. Everything else that occurs more or less regularly, that is those which are easy to remember, should be represented as pictograms.

Last edited by LMB; July 3rd, 2010 at 12:07 AM. Reason: nonsense corrected
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 02:18 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
See this:

First association: lost of white powder ahead of me. But seriously though, is there a speed limit ahead, a closed area where speed limit applies, or what?

It generally means a reduced speed limit ahead for a set distance. (through a village/ town or hazardous area where a lower speed limit is needed but not for a long duration.) Usually
you will see a "END SPEED ZONE" sign as well.

Another:

It may be perfectly clear to US drivers, but think about it, language-wise it's not logical. Does it mean "do not overtake"?

It means don't pass or "overtake" another motor vehicle.


Another one

Do I bring my girlfriend to this area, or what? Seriously, what does that mean?

An all way stop, must be mounted directly below a stop sign.

MUTCD: The ALL WAY plaque shall only be used if all intersection approaches are controlled by STOP signs.
Hopefully that helps
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Last edited by brewerfan386; July 2nd, 2010 at 04:01 PM.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 03:02 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
As for textual signs, I also dislike them. They take too much time to understand. When one drives, one uses brain differently than when one drives, and being forced to switch between those irritates me when I'm tired.

Somebody mentioned US signs being idiomatic, using words clear only to locals - I must say I also find them confusing, and I guess some must be completely opaque to beginners in English.

See this:

First association: lost of white powder ahead of me. But seriously though, is there a speed limit ahead, a closed area where speed limit applies, or what?


Another:

It may be perfectly clear to US drivers, but think about it, language-wise it's not logical. Does it mean "do not overtake"?


Another one

Do I bring my girlfriend to this area, or what? Seriously, what does that mean?

I'm not into "ours are better than yours" type of discussion, but text signs IMHO should be reserved to unusual occurances, e.g. "bison ahead", or "deep holes in the pavement", accompanied with a speed limit. Everything else that occurs more or less regularly, that is those which are easy to remember, should be represented as pictograms.
I must take exception to that "language-wise it's not logical" about the "Do Not Pass" sign. "Overtake" is British (Australian, New Zealand...) English. Americans say "pass." Unless you're going to say that any American usage that differs from British English is illogical....

The rest of your post, and your overall point, I don't feel strongly about one way or the other. (Although "all way" - which I assume is in conjunction with a stop sign? - is no less understandable to the rare non-English-speaking driver in the U.S. than "toutes directions" is to the less-rare non-French-speaking driver in France. And "bison ahead" is easy: just show a picture of one....)
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:24 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
"all way" - which I assume is in conjunction with a stop sign?
Yes, always. In my area it's more common to see "3 way" (T intersection) or "4 way" (+ intersection) instead of that one.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:27 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
Yes, always. In my area it's more common to see "3 way" (T intersection) or "4 way" (+ intersection) instead of that one.
I'm wondering how they say "four-way stop" in pictorial systems - big black plus sign with little red stop signs at all of the corners?
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:27 PM   #191
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???

!!!
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Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:53 PM   #192
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But it doesn't mean the same!
I haven't seen the first one in Europe, but i guess it means that you cannot cross a road to go straight ahead. For example, you are on a one lane road and in front of you there is a big one-way avenue with 5 lanes. There is no traffic light, but your road continues across the avenue on the same direction. Since it's dangerous to cross 5 lanes to go to the other side, the first sign prohibits this. However, drivers on the avenue are allowed to turn (right or left) to the continuation of your road, so there is no need for a "do not enter" sign. I guess that the same situation can be signed with an "obligatory left/right turn" on the small street.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:41 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post


Regulatory signs

- This simple sign did not exist in official MUTCD until now

- A major improvement, IMO. This sign has been used in Canada for ages.
To be continued...

signal like brazilian



image hosted on flickr
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 12:11 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewerfan386 View Post
An all way stop, must be mounted directly below a stop sign.
Still not clear: so an N.Am. stop sign does not force one to stop? Just to yield?
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 12:40 AM   #195
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An "All Way" stop sign means that everybody in the intersection has a stop sign. Just like any other stop sign, you must come to a complete stop before proceeding. If two cars in different roads make it to the intersection at the same time, the car on the left always has the right of way after both cars come to a complete stop.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 04:16 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by JuanPaulo View Post
An "All Way" stop sign means that everybody in the intersection has a stop sign. Just like any other stop sign, you must come to a complete stop before proceeding. If two cars in different roads make it to the intersection at the same time, the car on the left always has the right of way after both cars come to a complete stop.
Where is it like that?

Where I am it's the other way around. Florida Statute Section 316.123(2)(b) reads:

"At a four-way stop intersection, the driver of the first vehicle to stop at the intersection shall be the first to proceed. If two or more vehicles reach the four-way stop intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right. "

This rule is the same in maritime law which gives makes vessels yield right of way to vessels coming from the right. That's why you see the red light on the port (left) side of a vessel coming from the right, which in turn sees your starboard (green) light (meaning that he can proceed while you must yield).
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 04:43 AM   #197
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Give way to the right is the law in Wisconsin and Minnesota as well.

I can't say I like the new guide sign designs adopted by the feds. The huge changes in arrows look very foreign and unnecessary. IMHO


Fortunately the older design is still available for local and state governments to use.
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Last edited by brewerfan386; July 3rd, 2010 at 04:49 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 05:58 AM   #198
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Except that the "Exit Only" field should only be covering the right arrow of the right sign. Some states, such as mine, are really bad and lazy about such details.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 08:08 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewerfan386 View Post

Give way to the right is the law in Wisconsin and Minnesota as well.

I can't say I like the new guide sign designs adopted by the feds. The huge changes in arrows look very foreign and unnecessary. IMHO
Foreign and unnecessary? IMO this is huge improvement there is no guess work to figuring out which lane goes where, unlike with the diagram signs where especially for option lanes it can difficult to see if you're in the right lane.

Also can a mod drop the proposed from the the thread title
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 11:01 AM   #200
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The block marking to separate through and exit lanes is a golden solution as well, if implemented consistently. You can basically get rid of all those silly "exit only" signs.
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