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Old July 5th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #221
nerdly_dood
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I think it would be also nice to put an arrow like this on the pavement, or a sign underneath the stop sign or on the stop light or whatever signal there is.

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Old July 6th, 2010, 01:00 AM   #222
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You could also do it the European way, and make it a teardrop interchange.

Like this:
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Old July 6th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
I think it would be also nice to put an arrow like this on the pavement, or a sign underneath the stop sign or on the stop light or whatever signal there is.

Painting this arrow marking on the pavement would be a good idea as a supplemental measure; however, putting a traffic sign would be the first thing to do. In America, there is a sign "road closed", but it is the type of sign that physically barricades the road:



There might be some situations where you need to close the road to the general traffic but leave the road open for authorised vehicles. That is why it would be necessary to install an overhead sign before the intersection prohibiting from driving straight. As far as I know, there was no such sign in the USA until 2008. In Europe, such sign exists:



The above sign would be equivalent to a sign that has been used in Canada for quite a while and that has recently been approved by the FHWA:



Changing the geometry of the intersection as to block the straight path by an advancing safety island would surely prevent motorists from driving straight, but... wait to see what will happen at night if you do not install a corresponding traffic sign before the intersection
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Old July 6th, 2010, 04:06 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Painting this arrow marking on the pavement would be a good idea as a supplemental measure; however, putting a traffic sign would be the first thing to do. In America, there is a sign "road closed", but it is the type of sign that physically barricades the road:



There might be some situations where you need to close the road to the general traffic but leave the road open for authorised vehicles. That is why it would be necessary to install an overhead sign before the intersection prohibiting from driving straight. As far as I know, there was no such sign in the USA until 2008. In Europe, such sign exists:



The above sign would be equivalent to a sign that has been used in Canada for quite a while and that has recently been approved by the FHWA:



Changing the geometry of the intersection as to block the straight path by an advancing safety island would surely prevent motorists from driving straight, but... wait to see what will happen at night if you do not install a corresponding traffic sign before the intersection
That's another thing that I'd love to see the USA adopt - the 'blue disk' to denote mandatory actions. Also, the blue disk with the 45 degree down-pointing arrow, mounted fairly low, for 'keep right/left' ('drive on this side of the sign'). The 'keep right/left' signs now used in Canada and the USA are way too 'busy', IMHO.

Mike
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Old July 6th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Changing the geometry of the intersection as to block the straight path by an advancing safety island would surely prevent motorists from driving straight, but... wait to see what will happen at night if you do not install a corresponding traffic sign before the intersection
That's what guardrails with lots of reflective yellow stripes are for, and/or those little tiny dashed lines on the pavement that tell where turning lanes in big intersections go, along the path of the green and pink lines in my picture. (Reflective of course)

Other options:
- Just go ahead and allow people to go straight across
- Use a roundabout
- Don't even bother driving and just walk
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Old July 6th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
It also means that no vehicles will come out of the road, it's closed
that's not true, at least not in Poland.


This sign means that you can't enter from one direction but there is oncoming traffic from the other


However, this one means there is no movement of motor vehicles allowed behind the sign, no matter the direction:

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Old July 6th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #227
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First this excellent summary for all the new changes http://www.ite.org/bookstore/MUTCDoutreach.pdf

These changes don't just effect drivers, but bikers and pedestrians here are some of the bigger ones IMO:

Pedestrian Countdown Displays Are Now Required – Pedestrian countdown
displays, which have previously been optional, are now required for all new
installations of pedestrian signals, except where the duration of the pedestrian change
interval is 7 seconds or less.


New Pedestrian Pushbutton Symbol and Signs – Based upon successful
application in Canada, a new symbol for use on pedestrian pushbutton signs has been
adopted and many pushbutton signs have been revised to incorporate the symbol.





Revised Pedestrian Signal Timing Provisions – As a result of research that has
demonstrated the need to use lower walking speeds to accommodate a larger
percentage of the walking public, the recommended walking speed for calculating the
pedestrian clearance time has been reduced from 4 feet per second to 3.5 feet per
second, except where extended pushbutton presses or passive pedestrian detection has
been installed for slower pedestrians to obtain additional crossing time.



New Bicycle Guide Signs – New bicycle guide signs that show destinations and/or
distances along bicycle routes have been added for optional use to provide flexibility
and potentially reduce the costs for signing bicycle routes in urban areas where
multiple routes intersect or overlap.






Bike Lanes Designated with Pavement Markings Only – The use of bicycle lane
regulatory signs and plaques are no longer required where marked bicycle lanes are
present. This change provides flexibility for jurisdictions that do not desire to use the
bicycle lane signs, without restricting the ability of jurisdictions that prefer to use the
signs to continue to do so.


New Shared Lane Pavement Marking and New Bikes MAY USE FULL LANE
Sign – A new shared lane pavement marking to assist bicyclists in determining the
appropriate line of travel and a new Bikes MAY USE FULL LANE sign have been
added for use at locations where it is important to inform road users that the travel
lanes are too narrow for bicyclists and motor vehicles to operate side by side and to
remind motorists to pass with sufficient clearance. These optional devices may be
used in conjunction with one another or independently of each other.
image hosted on flickr



Last edited by urbanlover; July 6th, 2010 at 11:21 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 05:15 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Another one

Do I bring my girlfriend to this area, or what? Seriously, what does that mean?
This one is a little interesting, in my opinion. It is not really ambiguous because unlike most regular textual signs (especially ones used in the US, since in Canada we don't rely on text as much), this one is quite special in both its design and placement (always under a stop sign), that its meaning is clear. It is actually not important what it says ("all way", "4 way", etc.). Just the sign of the small red/white panel underneath a stop sign is enough to know that it is an "all way stop".

HOWEVER, I find this sign very dangerous, because as most of you know, the behaviour at all-way stops (mainly an exclusively North American concept) is very different from the behaviour at regular stops. A common dangerous situation is when a driver encounters several all-way stops in a row followed by a regular stop. It is easy to get into the habit of "whoever arrives/stops first, goes first" and cause a nasty collision by not properly yielding at the regular stop. There are also those less dangerous but annoying situations of all-way stops NOT having that little indication underneath (as I've seen numerous times at large mall parking lots here in Toronto). In this case it is not immediately clear who has the right of way.

This is why, in theory, I think that ideally there should be a different, clearly distinct sign to mean "all way stop". Whether one agrees with the concept of an all-way stop is a different story altogether, but I think this would increase safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
???
As several people have already explained, this sign simply means that you may not drive straight through the intersection, but the road is not closed (which would be the case if the "Do Not Enter" sign was there).

The reason for its placement is irrelevant - in Toronto this sign is often placed to simply restrict the entrance of traffic to a street through an intersection at certain hours of the day (for example, to a small street during rush hour). In that case times of day/days of week are posted underneath. In this particular case it makes a bit more sense than a European "mandatory directions" blue sign. As was also mentioned, however, this sign is indeed rare.

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Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
Also, I wonder when we'll see the words being removed from 'YIELD' and 'DO NOT ENTER' signs....
Heh, luckily we in Canada (at least here in Ontario) do not use these words in the signs (though occasionally they may appear, but that's rare). I don't understand why they are needed - the shapes/colours of these signs are unique.

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Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
IMO they should add a warning sign for those situations where you have a "short merge" on a freeway.
Yes! There is a particular road in Toronto that's almost a death trap. The merge between the westbound 401 and northbound Allen. It comes absolutely WITHOUT any warning at all. I've had trucks getting off the 401 having to drive on the shoulder before almost slamming into me (driving on that ramp) several times, and I myself once was unpleasantly surprised by that particular situation when getting off the 401. There should be a very clear warning there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
That's another thing that I'd love to see the USA adopt - the 'blue disk' to denote mandatory actions. Also, the blue disk with the 45 degree down-pointing arrow, mounted fairly low, for 'keep right/left' ('drive on this side of the sign'). The 'keep right/left' signs now used in Canada and the USA are way too 'busy', IMHO.

Mike
Technically we do have mandatory directions, indicated using white arrows on black rectangles (I believe the US uses the same thing), though I do agree that they aren't very common and are usually used at large intersections with many lanes, and often where there is more than one lane turning either right or left. In Montreal there are similar signs that use black arrows inside a green circle, though I haven't seen them anywhere else.

And I agree 100% about the "keep right/left" signs.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
As several people have already explained, this sign simply means that you may not drive straight through the intersection, but the road is not closed (which would be the case if the "Do Not Enter" sign was there).

The reason for its placement is irrelevant - in Toronto this sign is often placed to simply restrict the entrance of traffic to a street through an intersection at certain hours of the day (for example, to a small street during rush hour). In that case times of day/days of week are posted underneath. In this particular case it makes a bit more sense than a European "mandatory directions" blue sign. As was also mentioned, however, this sign is indeed rare.
I got that when other people told me on the previous page. I also proposed an alternative to using that sign using physical barriers with reflective stripes, and later on, I mentioned a supplemental sign or pavement marking.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 05:03 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barciur View Post


This sign means that you can't enter from one direction but there is oncoming traffic from the other


However, this one means there is no movement of motor vehicles allowed behind the sign, no matter the direction:

True, but the latter is less restrictive then the earlier. The red one allows no exception (maybe only for bicycles), while the white with red border allows certain types of disabled drivers, and a bunch of other priviledged vehicles, to enter the area.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #231
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In the US you'll also occasionally see a somewhat less restrictive sign than the red-ring-on-white sign, it's a simple white rectangle with black text reading "STREET CLOSED" - I hadn't known what exactly it had meant because it was a normal sign on a normal signpost next to a perfectly open street with cars parked on the sides. Later on it occurred to me that a better version would read "Street closed to thru traffic" because that's what it means - people had been using the street as a shortcut and overloading it, when it was only meant to be a residential side street, so if your destination is on that street then you can go there, but if you want to use it as a shortcut then you're not supposed to, but since there's no barrier, it's quite easy to do so. (But if enough people start using it that way then they'll find cops there quite often to make them stop)
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Old July 7th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
True, but the latter is less restrictive then the earlier. The red one allows no exception (maybe only for bicycles), while the white with red border allows certain types of disabled drivers, and a bunch of other priviledged vehicles, to enter the area.
There are no exceptions with either one, unless explicitly posted.

EDIT: Of course, you're right that exceptions to the 'do not enter' sign for anyone but cyclists are extremely rare, if they exist at all, while exceptions to the road closed sign are much more frequent.

Last edited by snowman159; July 7th, 2010 at 06:49 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 06:49 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
In the US you'll also occasionally see a somewhat less restrictive sign than the red-ring-on-white sign, it's a simple white rectangle with black text reading "STREET CLOSED" - I hadn't known what exactly it had meant because it was a normal sign on a normal signpost next to a perfectly open street with cars parked on the sides. Later on it occurred to me that a better version would read "Street closed to thru traffic" because that's what it means - people had been using the street as a shortcut and overloading it, when it was only meant to be a residential side street, so if your destination is on that street then you can go there, but if you want to use it as a shortcut then you're not supposed to, but since there's no barrier, it's quite easy to do so. (But if enough people start using it that way then they'll find cops there quite often to make them stop)
Here's something downright evil that Connecticut used to do. For all I know, they still do....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=1274,4823568
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Old July 7th, 2010, 07:01 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
I got that when other people told me on the previous page. I also proposed an alternative to using that sign using physical barriers with reflective stripes, and later on, I mentioned a supplemental sign or pavement marking.
Yes, I read your other replies. I quoted your particular post just as an example of the many others, so I apologize if there was some confusion.

However, in my post, I also mentioned that it can be used to restrict the movement of vehicles straight through an intersection regardless of the reason, in which case your physical barrier solution in no way replaces this sign. It merely applies to a particular case that was discussed (at an interchange).

In fact, as I mentioned, in Toronto it is often used similarly to what you described in your following post, by including time information under it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
... Later on it occurred to me that a better version would read "Street closed to thru traffic" because that's what it means - people had been using the street as a shortcut and overloading it, when it was only meant to be a residential side street, so if your destination is on that street then you can go there, but if you want to use it as a shortcut then you're not supposed to, but since there's no barrier, it's quite easy to do so. (But if enough people start using it that way then they'll find cops there quite often to make them stop)
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Old July 7th, 2010, 09:32 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Here's something downright evil that Connecticut used to do. For all I know, they still do....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=1274,4823568


The ones in Virginia that I mentioned are either extremely rare, or it's just a unique sign for a unique situation - i don't know of any others like that except for just the one next to a car wash in Roanoke, posted on a side street where it intersects Main Street (which is actually by no means a "main street", it's only "main" enough to warrant a yellow centerline)

How is this sign used?

It looks like it just tells people that you're supposta pull into the shoulder if you crash (I already knew that, as well as just about everyone else)
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Old July 7th, 2010, 09:39 PM   #236
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What's new about this?
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Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck
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Old July 8th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #237
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The optional dotted line can now be used

The fender bender sign is just a reminder like those buckle up signs.

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Old July 8th, 2010, 03:56 AM   #238
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The optional dotted line can now be used
If I remember correctly, the "ONLY" word is now required for any turning trapping lane as well.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 11:33 AM   #239
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The optional dotted line can now be used
I drove in Idaho few days ago, and I saw this optional dotted line used in all right/left turning lanes where the pavement looked still fresh. I guess it means that these changes were accepted by the Idaho department of transportation quite quickly Reminded me British Columbia a bit.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #240
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I already see that dotted line very frequently, and not only on new roads...
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