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Old October 28th, 2008, 06:11 AM   #121
Tom 958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
I think the reasoning why North America hasn't adopted the European-style blue signage is that here blue has a different significance.

Red signs are regulatory (stop, do not enter, etc.)
Orange signs are for construction or temporary (detours)
Yellow signs are cautionary
Green signs are for information
Blue signs are institutional (schools, hospitals, etc.)
Brown signs are touristic (information, gas stations, restaurants, hotels, etc.)
Black and white signs are obligatory (speed limit, one way, etc.)
Not exactly. Blue is for motorist services, though it's also used for hospitals as though a motorist might suddenly decide he needs one as he might need a gas station or restaurant. Very strange, actually. I've never seen a blue sign for a school.

Brown is for recreation-- parks and historic or scenic sites.

White is for regulation, red for prohibition.

One of my pet peeves: At many intersections, there are yellow diamond signs for a crossroad or traffic signal, below which is a rectangular sign with the name of the intersecting road. But the rectangular signs are yellow, as though there's some hazard associated with that particular road. I guess they match up the colors for the sake of neatness, but the rectangular signs should be green.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
Not exactly. Blue is for motorist services, though it's also used for hospitals as though a motorist might suddenly decide he needs one as he might need a gas station or restaurant. Very strange, actually. I've never seen a blue sign for a school.
That may be an American difference. Most school signs in Canada look like this:



The ones I've seen in the US are yellow and sometimes they're rectangular rather than the pentagonal one shown here. Other institutional signs I've noticed are Keep Quiet signs which are usually placed around seniors' homes. Museums and art galleries are also denoted with blue signs.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 08:16 AM   #123
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They also place yield signs at railroad crossings which I don't really like because it looks really redundant. After all, the railroad crossing sign means the same thing as a yield sign; stop give trains the right of way.

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Old October 29th, 2008, 10:44 AM   #124
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Weird...where is that? I've driven plenty all over the west mostly and I've never seen that. Certainly not done in my former state (UT) anyway.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #125
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Over the past couple of years the US has been moving to a "brighter" color on its school signs as a way for them to stand out more. The idea is to make school crossings safer.

Old: -------------------- New:
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Old October 29th, 2008, 05:42 PM   #126
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It immediately draws your attention, I think it can help. In my town they also put signs like that near a school to warn for crossing pedestrians. Furthermore, they added flash lights to it, powered by a solar cell on top of each post. It works out really well, though it's not really beautiful, with those solar cells on top.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 09:27 PM   #127
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they added flash lights to it, powered by a solar cell on top of each post. It works out really well, though it's not really beautiful, with those solar cells on top.
A very good idea...we have some flashing lights around schools here when the kids are walking to and from school (morning and afternoon) and I think it works very well...people slow down to the lower limit in the school zone. One of the few areas where a speed limit is usually obeyed to the letter.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 11:13 PM   #128
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We've had lots of problems over here with congestion around schools, caused by parents who drop-off their childern at school. This gives quite dangerous situations and they encouraged parents to walk or bike their children to school.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 11:17 PM   #129
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Well, the problem is that children used to live usually within 1 - 2 miles around their school, and mommy biked them to school. But these days, it is usual for women to work too, so they usually drop off their kids on the way to work - with their cars. The problem is school zones are not suited for this demographic shift, usually only like 10 parking spaces at a 400 kids school. Besides that, schools are usually not on main roads, but only on local roads within the neighborhoods.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 04:23 AM   #130
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Weird...where is that? I've driven plenty all over the west mostly and I've never seen that. Certainly not done in my former state (UT) anyway.
S.O.P. here in Wisconsin. ALL non-controlled railroad crossings in the state get a YIELD or STOP sign mounted in that manner. It is because so many no-brain drivers here don't respect railroad crossings like they should.

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Old October 30th, 2008, 04:52 AM   #131
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Well, the problem is that children used to live usually within 1 - 2 miles around their school, and mommy biked them to school. But these days, it is usual for women to work too, so they usually drop off their kids on the way to work - with their cars. The problem is school zones are not suited for this demographic shift, usually only like 10 parking spaces at a 400 kids school. Besides that, schools are usually not on main roads, but only on local roads within the neighborhoods.
Around here, many schools are built on main roads, even elementary schools. I think that the idea is that when the school aged population drops the building and/or the land will be easier to sell off.Here's a new elementary school near my house-- the site is just being graded, but you can see the immense scale. Very few students can walk or bike to it, though with 1500 kids in an elementary school and low residential densities, most kids would be vehicle-dependent anyway. http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=...08883&t=h&z=16

Not too far away is this complex of schools: high school and middle school on one site, served by its own five lane road connecting two lesser through roads. An elementary school is nearby to the NW. http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=...17767&t=h&z=15

On the other side of town, I was looking for a way to get around traffic and spotted a convincing-looking 2x2 boulevard heading in the right general direction. But it ended at a high school! http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=...17767&t=h&z=15
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Old October 30th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #132
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In California and Washington, I haven't noticed any school-related traffic congestion problems near elementary and middle schools. The traffic intensity is naturally high during the drop-off and pick-up times (~08:00 and ~15:00, respectively), but it rarely gets so congested that it starts to significantly obstruct the traffic flow. The worst case (that is for through traffic) would be when the entrance/exit from the school is controlled by a typical American 4-way STOP intersection because it would create long lines.

The situation with high schools is drastically different due to hundreds of teenagers (starting from the age of 16) driving to school on their own. Plus, in high school it is not cool anymore to take a bus, so everyone dreams of their own car. What makes this situation even worse is that teenage driving skills are... let's just say, not up to real world standards.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #133
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Self-explanatory...

____________

Finally they dropped some of the silly textual signs leaving only pictorial equivalents. Still a lot of textual signs to remain, but it's a good start.



To be continued...
The text signs are easier to understand IMO. The pictorial ones are confusing.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 05:13 PM   #134
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Pictorial signs will not be confusing if you dedicate several minutes to memorise them. The main disadvantage of textual signs is that they are not very visible from a long distance. It's a fact.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #135
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The text signs are easier to understand IMO. The pictorial ones are confusing.
And what if you can't speak englisch? If you're illiterate?
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Old October 30th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #136
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They have the text signs right now, so there must be some problems with that.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 01:54 AM   #137
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Is this sign being used to replace the DO NOT ENTER sign?
This sign is used in Ireland, instead of the red circle with white band used for NO ENTRY in other parts of Europe.
I don't think I have ever seen that sign, but if it were used the meaning would be clear. However, it is not a replacement for "no entry". No entry sign, or the more common blue disk with arrows ("mandatory directions") would come before the intersection. A no entry sign is at the beginning of the prohibited lane or road at the exit of the intersection.
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As a European, I would disagree with you, Mike Coming across the above sign, I would immediately associate it with this European sign which means "straight or right turn only"



Of course, this blue sign makes sense only if "no left turn" (bottom) sign isn't used at all which is the case with Germany, former Soviet Union, and several others:



As for Canada, I am pretty sure that it DOES prohibit a left turn. Another question is why the hell they would also use "No left turn" sign? But apparently they really use both signs.
Perhaps nittypicking, but there could be more than three exits from an intersections, in case the prohibition and mandatory direction signs are not equivalent.
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Originally Posted by Gil View Post
I think the reasoning why North America hasn't adopted the European-style blue signage is that here blue has a different significance.

Red signs are regulatory (stop, do not enter, etc.)
Orange signs are for construction or temporary (detours)
Yellow signs are cautionary
Green signs are for information
Blue signs are institutional (schools, hospitals, etc.)
Brown signs are touristic (information, gas stations, restaurants, hotels, etc.)
Black and white signs are obligatory (speed limit, one way, etc.)
No, there are no blue disks in US signage as far as I know. Also the rest of the world have plenty of other meanings for blue rectangular signs.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 05:30 AM   #138
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Pictorial signs will not be confusing if you dedicate several minutes to memorise them. The main disadvantage of textual signs is that they are not very visible from a long distance. It's a fact.
Yeah and whose going to take "several minutes" to reeducate the hundreds of millions of motorists on the roads.

Meanwhile the more practical and logical English signs which take no extra explanation are being done away with. Why? To appease folks like Von Krautburger who have a fetish for Euro style things.

I think 20 years from now civil engineers will take a look at this idiocy and say, "Gee, we're an English speaking country, we can make driving a lot simpler and intuitive for most Americans by changing these abstract picture signs into text ones!"
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Old October 31st, 2008, 07:10 AM   #139
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It's just hard for me to understand how someone can be so much against progress. In America, people are reluctant to accept something new, something that has proven to be better in other parts of the world. There is no logic behind this, just the irrational fear of change, however useful it may prove to be in the future.

Modern roundabout is a good example of this stubbornness. You ask drivers' opinion before it is implement to replace a 4-way STOP intersection, and most of them will tell you that it is not a good idea. The argument? "We are used to this, and it works". Luckily, the DOT is more likely to listen to an engineer's opinion and not to that of "Joe-the-Plumber" nonsense, so they put roundabout anyway. You ask people's opinion again in a short while, and somehow 9 out of 10 drivers (the actual numbers) are actually happy with the way it has worked out. You ask them if they want to go back to 4-way STOPs, and the majority says that they don't. Same with the pictorial signs - the notion that somehow if you start using them, you will cease to be Americans and instead turn into socialistic multicultural Europeans is the idiocracy at its best.

I am not sure if you, Paddington, have enough cognitive skills to understand simple logic, but try to comprehend this - whatever makes the roads safer, even if it means giving-up your precious American heritage, should be implemented. The FHWA is pretty slow in adopting some useful changes; nevertheless, they are inching toward the XXI century. And when everything is not going your way, what is left for you, Paddington? Wonder about international forums showing your ignorance?
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Old October 31st, 2008, 10:22 AM   #140
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Isn't that the conservative mentality? A busy 4-way stop is very unhandy, I agree. However, it shouldn't be too much, in the Netherlands and the UK there are very much roundabouts right now, and when driving a long distance on secundary roads (especially in the UK) it can get quite annoying.
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