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Old June 28th, 2009, 08:42 PM   #81
Jim856796
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The Pennsylvania Station was a devastating loss for New York City, but the Madison Square Garden was built in its place and I would definitely not call the place ugly.

And the Michigan Central Train Station is gonna be demolished soon because a proper reuse cannot be found for it.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 12:16 AM   #82
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Quote:
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The Pennsylvania Station was a devastating loss for New York City, but the Madison Square Garden was built in its place and I would definitely not call the place ugly.
.
MSG looks like a big, bland drum from the outside. I think people tend to overvalue the structure just because of its history when it could have been built anywhere in Manhattan and been just as successful.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 12:58 AM   #83
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I see these spots as huge opportunities for big projects. Any plans?
The 1rst (Grand Central) is undeveloped and is now refered to as Franklin Point. Before the recent downturn there were renders and plans but it never went into sales. Hopefully something similar will go to what was planned.





Those above have been scrapped though and it seems that there are plans for two 25 story buildings at the NE parcel with the rest to be developed later.
http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...ws.pl?id=30299
Mixed-use towers planned for Franklin Point



The 2nd one is the Central Station development Site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central...o_neighborhood)

A bunch of towers (including One Museum Park and OMP West) have gone up in the last five years at the south end of Grant Park on which it use to sit.

From Wiki
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Last edited by nomarandlee; June 29th, 2009 at 01:25 AM.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 03:47 AM   #84
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I think the Farley Post Office conversion is the closest NY will come to having a new old Penn Station. If only they could get on with it already!

MSG is not a historical building. The name is historical, but there have been three buildings to wear its name. I think there's a precedent for rubbing the ugly blight off the face of the Earth.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 08:50 AM   #85
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Michigan Central Station should not be demolished!

They're currently looking for a reuse but in the meantime it is NOT a good idea to be demolished. Hey, it's been standing abandoned for so long, why all of a sudden demolish it? Why don't they demolish all those abandoned homes before demolishing this great piece of art.
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Old June 30th, 2009, 01:10 AM   #86
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What a shame!!

So glad that Union Pacific and Rio Grande still stand in Salt Lake City...
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Old June 30th, 2009, 06:23 AM   #87
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i agree its a shame really the original Penn Station was a masterpiece compared to what we have now its just sad that they had to demolish it.

i mean it looked like you came out of the station like in those greek buildings basically you came out of the building into a grand city like if you were in heaven, now its different and people come out of there like rats its really sad about that.

it looked to be a massive wonderful building why wasn't it preserved it is beyond me.

also Euston station i am sad to see that Arch go and not only that it looked grand and beautiful why all of a sudden it went to be well bland and boring?
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 07:53 PM   #88
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i agree its a shame really the original Penn Station was a masterpiece compared to what we have now its just sad that they had to demolish it.
I never understand why the new designs got approved...
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:46 AM   #89
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political bull...

6 More Great Train Stations Lost To The Wrecking Ball


1. COLUMBUS UNION STATION
In 1897, Columbus opened its third Union Station, a large complex designed by Chicago architect Daniel Burnham. The building, expansive compared to previous facilities to handle additional traffic, had a monumental arched facade along High Street and a large train shed. Over time, elements of the structure were removed until the whole station was demolished in 1979 after Amtrak service ceased in 1977. Now a wacky convention center and several lanes of I-670 stand in its place.


THEN: A showpiece train station


NOW: A bizarre pastel-shaded convention center


2. PHILADELPHIA BROAD STREET STATION
The Pennsylvania Railroad opened the Broad Street Station in downtown Philadelphia in 1881 to serve all suburban and intercity traffic. The terminal was for a time the largest in the world, and by 1930 it was serving 450 trains a day. That huge traffic, however, made it too small, so Penn built two new stations — 30th Street and Suburban Station — in its place. In disuse, the Broad Street facility was demolished in 1953 and replaced by Penn Center, a complex of office buildings. One good result of the terminal’s destruction: the demolition of the “Chinese Wall,” a giant viaduct dividing downtown used by trains travelling from Broad Street Station to the west.

THEN: At the time of construction, the world’s largest train depot


NOW: The Penn Center office complex


3. NEW ORLEANS UNION STATION
Louis Sullivan, one of America’s most prominent architects, only designed one station, but his Union Station in New Orleans was a gracious slice of this southern city. The terminal opened in 1892 as the primary destination for Illinois Central Railroad trains from Chicago. Rising traffic and the advantages of one station for all lines encouraged the city’s railroads to join together in the construction of a new Union Passenger Terminal, which was completed in the 1950s directly adjacent to the older terminus, which was then demolished.

THEN: The only train station designed by great US architect Louis Sullivan, mentor to Frank Lloyd Wright


NOW: New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal


4. MINNEAPOLIS GREAT NORTHERN DEPOT
The beaux-arts Minneapolis Great Northern Depot was the city’s largest station. When it opened in 1913, it served as a prominent landmark along the Mississippi River, but it was destroyed in 1978 after Amtrak ended service to downtown Minneapolis. In its place is the new Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.

THEN: A great Beaux Arts depot


NOW: For many years the site was empty, today the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis


5. PORTLAND (MAINE) UNION STATION
Service between Boston and Portland ended in 1965, four years after the city’s Union Station was demolished; only in the past decade have passenger trains again run along the line. Union Station, built in 1873, was the main terminus for Boston & Maine and Portland & Rochester services.

THEN: A appealing station with a clock tower


NOW: A new station that looks like a drive-thru bank branch


6. MILWAUKEE UNION STATION
The Milwaukee Union Station served passengers between 1886 and 1965, when it closed after being replaced by a new Intermodal Station. A week after shuttering, the terminal was struck by fire, subsequently bulldozed, and replaced by an office building. Not the prettiest ending for a proud Tudor-style brick structure with an impressive clock tower.

THEN: An impressive Tudor-style station


NOW: A squat office complex
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 10:01 AM   #90
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It really does begger belief, that regardless of whether these buildings had become superfluous or not, they were demolished without a care in the world.

Here in the UK, many of our grand terminuses had the added insult of becoming giant car parks, prior to their demolition:

* Glasgow St Enoch - closed in 1966, eventually demolished in the late 70's (ironically during Architectural Heritage Year...).
* Liverpool Central High Level - closed in 1972 - the majority of the building had been given over to the car since 1966. Demolished shortly after closure.
* Bradford Exchange - closed in 1977 & demolished. Replaced by a vulgar, smaller station a little further down the tracks.

The only saving grace was at Manchester Central - closed in 1969, given over to NCP (National Car Parks) & then bought by Manchester City Council in the mid 80's, who developed it into the GMEX Centre (Greater Manchester Exhibition Centre), which very recently reverted to it's original name of Manchester Central.

The magnificent London St Pancras was even earmarked for closure & demolition back in the 70's. Thankfully, after having experienced the loss of London Euston, such was the severity of the public's anger that it was never allowed to go ahead. Of course now, this Gothic masterpiece has been beautifully restored & is the terminus for Britain's only high speed railway to Europe.

For me personally, the destruction of NY's Penn Station, had to be the biggest crime against architecture I've ever seen or heard of. I am hopeful that eventually (& soon), this magnificent building will rise again & take it's rightful place in the heart of New York.

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Old July 3rd, 2009, 10:38 PM   #91
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It should be noted that these became disused not because of cars and interstates but because of a concerted effort by railroad companies to phase out passenger travel after WW2 because freight hauling was much more profitable with its near infinite scalability. That the interstates and cars became so popular was a result, not a cause, of this business model shift.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 10:38 AM   #92
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It should be noted that these became disused not because of cars and interstates but because of a concerted effort by railroad companies to phase out passenger travel after WW2 because freight hauling was much more profitable with its near infinite scalability. That the interstates and cars became so popular was a result, not a cause, of this business model shift.
Hmmm. Interesting theory, yet cars and interstates (or the equivilent) have also become equally popular in other country's, whether in Europe or places like Australia (ok, lack of Interstates there) but they have not dismanteled their passenger railways to such a level.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 03:49 PM   #93
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Number 1 is clear winner but didn't stand a chance really, it's huge and right in the middle of Manhattan taking up all that development land. Most of the others went into car parks or highway junctions. It was as if grand stations were seen as un-American at that time and had to go.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 05:22 PM   #94
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Cannon Street Terminal

England we have had loads of great stations replaced with a 60s concrete mess!

One less know station is London's Cannon Street...

From this...



To this...

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Old July 4th, 2009, 08:53 PM   #95
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Hmmm. Interesting theory, yet cars and interstates (or the equivilent) have also become equally popular in other country's, whether in Europe or places like Australia (ok, lack of Interstates there) but they have not dismanteled their passenger railways to such a level.
Most of those other countries nationalized their railways.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 02:42 AM   #96
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MSG looks like a big, bland drum from the outside. I think people tend to overvalue the structure just because of its history when it could have been built anywhere in Manhattan and been just as successful.
You underestimate the necessity of good transport links for a venue like the Madison Square Garden. The site of Pennsylvania Station provides exactly this. Other places available at this time don't.

Generally, I don't get what precisely you all bemoan. The station has been kept and works today as it did all the time. The valuable space has just been developed to make the most out of it.
Time goes on and new developments happen. I'm rather grateful that a sports venues in New York and Boston have been built in the city centre rather than out of town. If that means that a station is reduced to its core function then be it so.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 08:46 AM   #97
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Umm, as long as it's linked to transportation, MSG will be fine as you have stated. So, it could've been built anywhere else as long as it was connected to NY transit.

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Number 1 is clear winner but didn't stand a chance really, it's huge and right in the middle of Manhattan taking up all that development land. Most of the others went into car parks or highway junctions. It was as if grand stations were seen as un-American at that time and had to go.

So, Madison Square Garden isn't "right in the middle of Manhattan taking up all that development land"?

I'd rather have grand architecture than a bland sports venue any day...
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Old July 5th, 2009, 08:58 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
England we have had loads of great stations replaced with a 60s concrete mess!

One less know station is London's Cannon Street...

Well, enjoy it while you can because even that concrete mess will be going soon. There are mixed feeling about it's replacement but it's got to better than what's there now.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 10:51 AM   #99
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Umm, as long as it's linked to transportation, MSG will be fine as you have stated. So, it could've been built anywhere else as long as it was connected to NY transit.
Certainly not. I wrote of good transport links and not just of transport links at all. A single metro station which might be almost everywhere is just not good enough for a sports venue of this size. There are, however, very few places in New York, let alone in Manhattan, that are served by so many Underground and Main line services.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:08 PM   #100
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I agree. There is only one arena in the world which is visited more: the arena in Manchester, UK. Which not quite coincidentally was also built right upon an important railway station.
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