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Old November 30th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #121
21C Liverpool
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LIVERPOOL CENTRAL

Liverpool Central was one of 3 Major termini in Central Liverpool - Lime St, Exchange and Central, UK.

Today, Liverpool Central and Exchange Stations have been pushed below ground as part of Liverpool's metro system, however they are still major stations in their own right. Lime St Station today is the city's main national rail terminal.

Liverpool Central was built on an awkward site, sandwiched between Bold st and Renshaw st with an entrance to Ranelagh st. The station in its current underground form is as busy today as its heyday, however has now taken on a tired appearence with a low density shopping centre on what was the original facade and entrance space.

Central Station's dimise as a mainline station was largely down to the Beeching Rail cuts of the 1960's despite being a very busy and popular terminal. Its eventural demolition, it is argued, was needed for Merseyrails Loop and metro link, however this is debatable.

At present their are plans to regenerate the former high level Central Station site for Retail/leisure/commercial and residential use for developer Merepark. These plans however have taken a long time to materialise and are now being held up by UK Recession.

The loss of the station, particulary the facade and train shed to the rear was a mistake in the city's development and with some forsight could have been averted (see Manchester Central/GMEX regeneration, UK)

There are plans to regenerate the station below ground as it is now at full capacity and on a hit list of stations in the UK that need urgent upgrading, however given the nature of financial distribution in the UK, London will take priority and Liverpool Central will no doubt recieve merely a lick of paint.

Enjoy what went before and attached are some ideas from the forum for the sites development.











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Old December 1st, 2009, 12:22 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
With all due respect to Berlin, which did a fine and necessary job with its Hauptbahnhof, there is no way I would trade the Paris situation for one giant glass box in a dead area of town like that. (And neither would the Parisians.) Talk about killing the romance of rail travel.
If you ever go to Berlin and observe the travelling patterns of people over
there, you will realize that very few people use this station as their begin
or enf point of travel. It is mostly used as an interchange station, where
you can easily change trains, to/from tother trains or S-bahn. And for
that function, it does a wonderful job.

If you want to go downtown, you get out at Berlin Zoo, or at Alexanderplatz,
where all east-west trains are also calling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
And if Brussels' north-south link were created today, they would probably not go about it the same way. Obviously, their one and only shot at functional rail infrastructure did not depend on the demolition of those stations. They did that because in the 1950s, people weren't too attached to 19th century architecture anyway.
I'm not sure about that at all. Given the nature of the soil in Brussels, any
other option would have resulted in unbearable prices, or a link with much
less capacity. And there are not that many ways to build a six tracks wide
tunnel. What I will concede is that today, the impact on the surface would
have been much lighter. You don't even imagine how many surface buildings
have been demolished to build that link...
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Old December 1st, 2009, 04:13 PM   #123
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Quote:
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And if you want to see how one can supress all termini in a major city, just
look how it has been done in Berlin...
All do respect, Berlin is a lot smaller than Paris and London and is not a central hub like those cities. Frankfurt is Germany's main hub for interchange traffic.
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Old December 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM   #124
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Honestly I prefer the modern station, even if I admit that it is ugly.
I had the misfortune to transfer in gare Montparnasse last year and I found it one of the most hideous stations I have been to. A complete contrast to other grand stations in Paris and what we usually expect around Europe.

To be honest, I suspect I would have preferred the original, even if it wasn't one of the best examples. It surely must have been better than what exists now.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 12:39 AM   #125
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It is maybe ugly but a way more efficient, the traffic are well organisated. The transfer suburban train/metro is very easy.
Now I also admit the a good renovation and a big reconstrution of the facade would be good.

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All do respect, Berlin is a lot smaller than Paris and London and is not a central hub like those cities. Frankfurt is Germany's main hub for interchange traffic.
Anyway it would be impossible to create a central station in Paris, we don't have the space to it unlike Berlin.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 01:04 AM   #126
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I had the misfortune to transfer in gare Montparnasse last year and I found it one of the most hideous stations I have been to. A complete contrast to other grand stations in Paris and what we usually expect around Europe.

To be honest, I suspect I would have preferred the original, even if it wasn't one of the best examples. It surely must have been better than what exists now.
That's odd, I quite like the Montparnasse Station (inside). The grey raw concrete, the fact that it's a bit obscure. It's very relaxing to me, and it looks modern, plus less windy than other stations. It's my favorite station in Paris.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:02 AM   #127
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Milano, old Central Station (1864-1931)

It was demolished when current Stazione Centrale construction ended. Even the viaducts bringin to it were torn down as the railways system was completely refurbished by building a massive 'external' (at the time) ring
More then 50 years later on the same run a large railway tunnel for suburban lines has been built, and in the same place where once the old station stood there is a large underground railways station now...



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Old January 13th, 2010, 05:52 AM   #128
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From those photos, Gare Montparnasse has some swingin' 60's funk to it. But then the interior may well be nasty, unfortunately I've never been to Paris.

Anyways many towns near me had small depots which last decades beyond the decline of rural passenger service, to be used by the railroad for office space back before modern communications. I have a book about the Santa Fe in Texas which has in the back great color photos of almost every station there was in Texas, most small but iconic yellow wooden buildings. A surprising number still exist but have been picked up and moved and re-used as houses or shops.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 08:31 AM   #129
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Quote:
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It should be noted that these became disused not because of cars and interstates but because of a concerted effort by railroad companies to phase out passenger travel after WW2 because freight hauling was much more profitable with its near infinite scalability. That the interstates and cars became so popular was a result, not a cause, of this business model shift.
This is one of the more stupid comments posted here, which a simple search through historical documents from any of the railroads of the time will show is false.....

The passenger decline started well before WW2, and was only halted due to wartime traffic. The railroads introduced new streamlined lightweight passenger trains to the rails in order to woo more passenger traffic back to the rails, and spent quite a huge deal of cash to make it all happen. Some of the fastest scheduled name trains ran during this period, yet the growth of personal transport in the automobile was already claiming passengers from the trains. By the time the Interstate system came into being, the passenger shift from rail to auto had been one way (except for the war years) for near on 35 years plus.

Your own Interstate Commerce Commission had the final say over dropping passenger services, and the railroads were bleeding from the losses of having to run continually loss making trains. This is basically how Amtrak came into being, so that the services could continue in a skeletal fashion under a new government agency, and the private companies could then drop their own services.

Yet Southern Railway at least continued their own passenger train service on their own rails, and did not hand over their trains to Amtrak for a few years yet, as did a few others.

Might be time for some after school reading for yourself sunshine......
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #130
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omg, that is so insensitive

old beautuful architecture should be prized and proteced, not replaced with modern soul less buildings.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 01:46 PM   #131
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
With all due respect to Berlin, which did a fine and necessary job with its Hauptbahnhof, there is no way I would trade the Paris situation for one giant glass box in a dead area of town like that. (And neither would the Parisians.) Talk about killing the romance of rail travel.
It's not going to stay a "dead" area. Most large stations were once build in "dead" areas, as that is where the available land was. The busy neighbourhoods around them came later.

Quote:
On top of that, Paris probably sees a lot more train traffic than Berlin. So that would be one big glass box!
Berlin has the advantage now that all trains arrive at the same station, makign transfers easy. When I travel from Switzerland to Belgium via Paris I have to change from Gare de l'Est" to "Gare du Nord". And that although the platforms and track connections are available to receive the TGV-Est trains in Gare du Nord also.

Quote:
Similarly, if Antwerp had gotten its north-south link in the 1950s, they might not have been quite as careful either. It's disturbing to think about.
Interestingly Antwerp once had a north-south link, until the present "Middenstatie" was build, when the link was terminated and a line around the city build in stead...
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Old January 14th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulbous View Post
Your own Interstate Commerce Commission had the final say over dropping passenger services, and the railroads were bleeding from the losses of having to run continually loss making trains. This is basically how Amtrak came into being, so that the services could continue in a skeletal fashion under a new government agency, and the private companies could then drop their own services.
One other factor was the end of the mail contracts, and that (if I'm not mistaken) that railways weren't allowed to run bus services.

The AT&SF was quite proud of it's premium trains, with it's superliners, and was even prepared to keep running them at a loss, as long as the loss wasn't to big, and the trains didn't run empty. The loss could be off-setted against the positive effect those trains has on their image. They didn't want to keep running the slow, often less than daily regional trains, that were hardly every used and became entireyl pointless once they didn't carry any mail anymore. The solution would have been for them to drop the regional trains, and replace them with buses, feeding passengers to their mainline premium trains. But they weren't allowed AFAIK. When Amtrak started however they did just that. And they ran the premium trains so poorly that AT&SF banned Amtrak from using the old names...
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Old February 1st, 2010, 11:39 PM   #133
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The main concourse of Union Station in Chicago, demolished 1969. The waiting room (not pictured) still stands, but isn't nearly as impressive.


Tribune Co. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y15...-.jpg&newest=1


Tribune Co. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y15...-.jpg&newest=1

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Old February 2nd, 2010, 12:59 AM   #134
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A relatively little known station in London, yet grand nevertheless

Crystal Palace High level, the end of a branch from Nunhead built primarily to serve the 'Crystal Palace' which was rebuilt in Norwood, South London, after being dismantled and relocated from Hyde Park in 1852. The palace itself was partially destroyed by fire in 1866, then completely in 1936, and after then already light traffic on the branch dwindled further until closure in 1954.

The Crystal Palace before destruction in 1936

[IMG]http://i47.************/2466nab.jpg[/IMG]

Location

[IMG]http://i49.************/35hoe2w.gif[/IMG]

The station alongside the palace

[IMG]http://i47.************/anndkm.jpg[/IMG]

The station building

[IMG]http://i46.************/2rpcw7q.jpg[/IMG]

The ornate subway, pretty much all that remains today

[IMG]http://i45.************/eqz52f.jpg[/IMG]

Inside the substantial trainshed

[IMG]http://i49.************/24ng1mp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.************/22etlc.jpg[/IMG]
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:46 PM   #135
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Buenos Aires

Estacion del Parque (1857-1886, 1st Argentinean railway)



Estacion Constitucion I (demolished in XIXth century)



Estacion Constitucion II (designed by Parr, Strong & Parr, inspired on Chateau Maisons-Laffitte and demolished on XIXth century)





Estacion Constitucion III (designed by Paul Bell Chambers and Louis Newbery Thomas, constructed in 1898, partialy demolished on 1925)



Estacion Casa Amarilla

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Old February 9th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #136
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The only thing greater than riding a brand new Highspeed Train into a super sleek new station, is riding it into a beautiful old station. The contrast is so great, it just makes sense.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #137
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Old stations don't fit modernity, avant-grade design (for 2010, not 1910) and all comforts we want, most of them should be shut down for good, demolished and reconstructed with modern design, facilities and so.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 03:25 PM   #138
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Quote:
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Old stations don't fit modernity, avant-grade design (for 2010, not 1910) and all comforts we want, most of them should be shut down for good, demolished and reconstructed with modern design, facilities and so.


That kind of attitude is exactly what made the USA lose much of its cultural heritage. In the words of Joni Mitchell, you pay paradise to put up a parking lot. And that's exactly what happened; raze stations and put up huge carparks to please car owners and auto-worshippers such as you. I'm sorry but the days of your 'school of urban planning' are pretty much over.

One has to marry the old with the new. I think the French did it just right with Gare Du Nord. I'm glad they didn't turn that into a Montparnasse just because the Eurostar came along And there are many more examples out there of this blending.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #139
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The funny thing is, in the UK it's the 1960s modernist stations(or 1960s extensions to older ones) that are being demolished and rebuilt, as in the case of London Bridge or King's Cross' front, while old Victorian stations such as St. Pancras are being preserved or restored.

Even in my town, they've just announced plans to reopen the old Victorian station building after the main ticket office moved to a bland glass box years ago.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #140
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Old stations don't fit modernity, avant-grade design (for 2010, not 1910) and all comforts we want, most of them should be shut down for good, demolished and reconstructed with modern design, facilities and so.
I really couldn't disagree more, while I love high quality modern architecture the sense of theatre and occasion when you arrive in carefully restored or maintained classical station, such as st pancreas or my own local terminius Manchester Piccadilly is something that distinguishes rail travel from its competitors.

Surely the aim should be to preserve and update these stations where it is possible, and to bring in the modern facilities its users expect while retaining there history rather than ruthlessly destroying them in the name of efficiency or even worse fashion.
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