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Old April 30th, 2009, 10:32 AM   #41
hkskyline
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I don't think it is practically feasible that either Guangzhou residents have to commute to Hong Kong to fly or vice versa. As mainland residents get wealthier and can support their own direct flights, Hong Kong needs to further move up the value chain to sustain our advantage. It's not reasonable to expect customers to feed to us automatically as a right so we can stop improving.

That being said, since Cathay is a premium airline, it should attract the really wealthy mainland customers who want to fly out of Hong Kong for the experience. Similarly, for Hong Kongers who want to save some money but don't mind the inconvenience, perhaps in the future, commuting to Guangzhou for a flight may be feasible (at least now, commuting to Shenzhen for a flight within the mainland appears to be a viable, cheap alternative).
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 09:00 AM   #42
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內地學者倡第三跑道拓國內航線
20 April 2009
信報

雖然「珠三角地區改革發展規劃綱要」行動綱領已首次就五個機場的分工作出定位(表),但在內地不少學者眼中,這只是文字遊戲,兩地競爭局面並沒有消失,隨著穗、港兩地機場差距正逐漸拉小,香港機場被邊緣化的勢頭已顯現。

中山大學港澳珠三角研究中心教授、粵港交通問題專家鄭天祥直言,廣州機場的發展潛力遠超香港,十年、八年後很有可能趕超香港。他表示,廣州機場在硬件上已經優於香港,而在軟件條件上,廣州集中了貨源地、高新技術、周邊企業密集等優勢,圍繞四周的公路網、鐵路網也在加速建設當中。

香港機場雖然航線密集,但客運、貨運價格均高企,「同樣一個集裝箱從香港運去美國,要比從廣州運過去貴三百美元,廣州機場目前每年都增加十幾條航線,很快就能追上香港。」鄭天祥說。

  目前,香港政府正在策劃興建第三條跑道,不少本港學者、交通問題專家認為,此第三條跑道應該用於增設一百四十條國內航線,以拓寬國內市場,但鄭天祥並不認同。他說,香港機場目前已開通了四十五條面向內地主要城市的航線,在國內航線已被北京、上海和廣州三地機場佔據的前提下,港機場再增加一百多條航線到中小型城市,成效有限,不一定能提高競爭力。

「香港機場每個航班平均二百多名旅客,而白雲機場平均每個航班才一百多名旅客,香港機場等於降低效益去爭國內航線。」鄭天祥解釋道。他指出,儘管香港機場現有百多條國際航線,但北京首都機場和上海浦東機場的國際航線均超過百條,廣州白雲機場現時雖然只有六十多條,但近年的目標亦是增超百條,所以他建議,耗資幾百億的第三條跑道應用於增設國際航線,香港機場才有絕對的競爭優勢。

此外,雖然香港機場連續七年獲世界第二大貨運機場,每年貨運吞吐量超過三百六十萬噸,二○○二年時,這樣的吞吐量更相當於內地一百四十個機場的綜合,但僅僅六年時間,上海浦東機場已追上香港的七成,達到二百九十萬噸。

鄭天祥接著說,中央已經將上海定位為國際航運中心,很快將追及香港,香港要保住自身地位,惟有開闢更多的國際航線,才能擁有北京、上海、廣州機場無法比擬的實力,然開闢國際航線風險大■
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Old May 4th, 2009, 12:11 AM   #43
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I just watched a video about the so called "improvement" on the airport, personally i think its a big step backwards, i cant believe they decided to bus the travelers to the new north concourse, i mean come on its 2009! no body build a new concourse at this time of year without a train system or at least a tunnel! bus??? its so 70's! further bad news is that, unlike the main terminal as well as many new airports around the world, where departure & arrival area are separated, the new concourse combined the departure & arrival area together, which means that arrival travelers will have to walk through the departure lounge before getting to the bus, just like those old 70's-ish american ariports. u won't be able to feel spacious & comfortable at the new concourse anymore because the departure lounge will be very busy with constant arrival travelers passing through the lounge. sad. looks like HKIA is running out of luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7i4zIsqz8
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Old May 4th, 2009, 01:36 AM   #44
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Are you saying that you want to have a train system to travel to a tiny satellite that has like 10 bridges? And besides, the satellite is like 300m from the main building...

Let's face it - the satellite construction costs merely $768 million HKD, i.e. less than USD$100m. What do you want?
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Old May 4th, 2009, 04:43 AM   #45
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What is the satellite going to be used for anyway? I thought it's for the likes of low-cost carriers such as Hong Kong Airlines.

I don't think they'll park a 747 there so 300 passengers get off amidst another 300 passengers waiting to get on.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 05:12 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by caelus View Post
I just watched a video about the so called "improvement" on the airport, personally i think its a big step backwards, i cant believe they decided to bus the travelers to the new north concourse, i mean come on its 2009! no body build a new concourse at this time of year without a train system or at least a tunnel! bus??? its so 70's! further bad news is that, unlike the main terminal as well as many new airports around the world, where departure & arrival area are separated, the new concourse combined the departure & arrival area together, which means that arrival travelers will have to walk through the departure lounge before getting to the bus, just like those old 70's-ish american ariports. u won't be able to feel spacious & comfortable at the new concourse anymore because the departure lounge will be very busy with constant arrival travelers passing through the lounge. sad. looks like HKIA is running out of luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7i4zIsqz8
I think there is a misconception there.

1) The new north satellite is supposed to be a "low cost" carrier facility.
In many other airports, low cast carrier passengers don't even have the luxury to use the main terminal concourse, but a cheaper and less convenient terminal that is completely segregated. But here in Hong Kong, you will still be able to use the main terminal. Second, low cost carrier facility does not typically have boarding bridge, there are ten bridges in HKIA. It is better than everyone else.

2) When it says merging immigration concourse area, it doesn't mean merging arrival and departure concourses. They will be still at different levels. The old arrival immigration hall used to be on different ends of the concourses with duty free shop or something in between. The improvement removed the obstruction between the two immigration areas, merged them together, and provides more immigration counters for better and quicker service. Removing the center structure also make the arrival hall more spacious and more comfortable.

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Old May 4th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #47
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I think there is a misconception there.

2) When it says merging immigration concourse area, it doesn't mean merging arrival and departure concourses. They will be still at different levels. The old arrival immigration hall used to be on different ends of the concourses with duty free shop or something in between. The improvement removed the obstruction between the two immigration areas, merged them together, and provides more immigration counters for better and quicker service. Removing the center structure also make the arrival hall more spacious and more comfortable.

I wish it is the case, but judged from the video it seems that the new concourse has only 2 levels, the bus terminal and the "departure/arrival" hall, (see 0:43) so there you go
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Old May 4th, 2009, 06:39 PM   #48
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I wish it is the case, but judged from the video it seems that the new concourse has only 2 levels, the bus terminal and the "departure/arrival" hall, (see 0:43) so there you go
It probably is, but then I think Eric was referring to the main building while you are referring to the North Concourse?

Anyway, I don't expect the North Concourse would be "very busy with constant arrival travelers passing through the lounge" as, again, there are only 10 bays or so. In the case that 2 planes arrive at the same time, it would only handle around 300 people or so, and even if we assume they all need to travel to the main terminal at exactly the same time, 3 or 4 buses at most would be able to do the job.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #49
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I wish it is the case, but judged from the video it seems that the new concourse has only 2 levels, the bus terminal and the "departure/arrival" hall, (see 0:43) so there you go
I see what are you saying now, I thought you mean the improvement at the main concourse (1:55.)

But still, we aren't talking about a huge amount of people moving around at the same time. Two fall small jets would be like only 300 people, 4-5 bus loads only.
And what we don't know is, there can be separation between arrival and departure passengers even at the same level. Arrival passengers can be guided by a separate pathway to the lower level for shuttle bus service.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #50
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屯門赤鱲角連接路2016落成
30 April 2009
星島日報

政府已擬定「屯門至赤鱲角連接路」的走綫,整個項目共分三部分,全長約九公里,將以海底隧道加高架路的形式興建。其中連接屯門至擬建港珠澳大橋香港口岸人工島的海底隧道,就長約五公里,至於南、北兩段高架路合共總長約四公里。當局初步選定海底隧道以屯門近內河貨運碼頭位置為北着陸點,工程有需要填海(見圖)。

廣場擬設交通交匯處

路政署昨呈交屯門區議會文件,當局已擬定「屯門至赤鱲角連接路」項目推薦走綫。「連接路」分海底隧道、北面連接路及南面連接路三部分。海底隧道部分最長約五公里,穿梭龍鼓水道,北起屯門四十區、近內河貨運碼頭的新填海位置,南接大橋香港口岸人工島,雙程雙綫行車。北面連接路就最短只有約零點五公里,連接隧道北端出口至四十六區收費廣場。

文件亦透露,廣場計畫設立交通交匯處,以方便車輛往來北大嶼山及機場方向,或使用相連的擬建「屯門西繞道」直達港深西部公路及元朗等地區。南面連接路長約三點五公里,是橫跨東涌航道的跨海高架路,連接海底隧道南端出口至北大嶼山公路。而屯門南下車輛亦可於人工島轉入公路直往機場。該署預計,「連接路」會在二○一六年落成。記者 陳意婷
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:46 AM   #51
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Airport rail link to cost 52 billion yuan
7 May 2009
South China Morning Post

An intercity rail link connecting Hong Kong and Shenzhen airports is expected to cost nearly 52 billion yuan (HK$59 billion) to shorten the travelling time from an hour to 24 minutes, Shenzhen authorities said yesterday.

Shenzhen officials said in a study expected to be given to Hong Kong next month that the rail link was "feasible and would benefit the two neighbouring cities as part of efforts to cement the integration of them".

The proposed 41km line would have four stops - both airports, Hung Shui Kiu in Yuen Long and Qianhai in Shekou, Shenzhen - the feasibility study said.

It said checkpoints would be provided for cross-border travellers, and passengers could check in their luggage before boarding the train.

Hong Kong is expected to pay 41 billion yuan, 80 per cent of the total construction fees, for the 16km line in its jurisdiction, while Shenzhen will pay about 10 billion yuan for about 25km. Trains would run every three minutes, carrying 35,000 passengers an hour, said Li Xiaoyi , vice-director of the Shenzhen Rail Transit Construction Headquarters Office.

Shenzhen authorities said the planned intercity railway could provide a link between Hong Kong airport's frequent international flights and Shenzhen airport's domestic flights.

Shenzhen launched a feasibility study on airport rail links at the end of 2007, and its planning bureau earlier proposed that the railway should be 30km long and cut travelling time between the two cities to 17 minutes.

Shenzhen Mayor Xu Zongheng said earlier that construction of the line would not start until 2011.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 02:44 PM   #52
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Hong Kong is expected to pay 41 billion yuan, 80 per cent of the total construction fees, for the 16km line in its jurisdiction, while Shenzhen will pay about 10 billion yuan for about 25km.
How come?
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Old May 7th, 2009, 06:08 PM   #53
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How come?
We have half the tunnels under water body (between Chek Lap Kok and Tuen Mun, then from Yuen Long to Shenzhen) which are much more expensive to construct then everything is underground within Shenzhen.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #54
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We have half the tunnels under water body (between Chek Lap Kok and Tuen Mun, then from Yuen Long to Shenzhen) which are much more expensive to construct then everything is underground within Shenzhen.
So that bulk of money includes construction of the Tuen Mun - Chek Lap Kok tunnel? Is the rail tunnel going to be separate with the road traffic tunnel?
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #55
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So that bulk of money includes construction of the Tuen Mun - Chek Lap Kok tunnel? Is the rail tunnel going to be separate with the road traffic tunnel?
That's the rail tunnel, not the vehicle tunnel we are talking about in another thread.

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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:02 AM   #56
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That's the rail tunnel, not the vehicle tunnel we are talking about in another thread.

I know it does complicate things a lot but it could be a lot cheaper to have the rail alongside the other tunnel we were talking about..
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Old May 8th, 2009, 12:24 PM   #57
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I just watched a video about the so called "improvement" on the airport, personally i think its a big step backwards, i cant believe they decided to bus the travelers to the new north concourse, i mean come on its 2009! no body build a new concourse at this time of year without a train system or at least a tunnel! bus??? its so 70's! further bad news is that, unlike the main terminal as well as many new airports around the world, where departure & arrival area are separated, the new concourse combined the departure & arrival area together, which means that arrival travelers will have to walk through the departure lounge before getting to the bus, just like those old 70's-ish american ariports. u won't be able to feel spacious & comfortable at the new concourse anymore because the departure lounge will be very busy with constant arrival travelers passing through the lounge. sad. looks like HKIA is running out of luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7i4zIsqz8
In many ways I do have to agree with you on this one.

There have indeed been some rather disappointing and unfulfilled improvements in HKIA since opening. The only really good one I can think of is probably the expansion of skymart and it is hugely improved regarding the entertainment selection and comfort of the airport.

However, for example T2 is good in a sense that it offers more counters, but the quality of design and construction is appalling compared to T1. The immigration hall is dull, uninviting and makes very little difference from many other second-tier or regional airports. The roof is kinda nice but you can easily tell its built on the cheap.

Also, I just completely do not see the point of that satellite terminal. I understand it's probably for the low cost airline but the bus transfer thing is just so 80s and shouldnt really happen in HKIA. If they're really doing it for the low-cost - why not build a terminal to the side of the airfield like what Changi did. At least people won't necessarily associate HKIA with 'you have to hop on to a bus to get to your terminal' and honestly, I'm doubtful about the design of that terminal as well with that odd looking organic thing attached to the top which is again very 90s. (incheon style)

I do appreciate AA's effort to improve the airport - but it's important they're not diluting and diluting it to a second-class airprot. They should hold on to the standard of T1 which is essentially their best asset!!

(another disappointment if anyone of you might have noticed is the baggage claim hall - after the recent refurbishment work - they've now attached this massive overhang (ie grey lump) with some horrible lights running right in the middle and across the whole stretch of the hall. i'm sure it's to do with possibly ventilation or maybe other technical improvements but it's completely out of place and im sure norman won't be too happy seeing that)
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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #58
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yes i always question the necessity of building the north concourse, they claimed that there is not enough frontal stands for the narrow body aircraft, so they build the north concourse to provide more frontal stands for them, but the ironic thing is that in order to use the airbridge you have to catch the bus to get there first! hey, why not just leave the place as remote stands, and then bus the passengers to the plane when the departure time is come? as least they get to stay at the fabulous main terminal instead of the cheap looking north course. passengers in transit between the north concourse & the main terminal is gonna be nightmare, i hope the luggage system works ok between the 2 concourses.

Oh don't get me started on the T2, it just doesn't make sense to me, they spent millions of dollars to build a new terminal just for TWO rows of check in counter, the rest of the space is nothing but shops shops & shops, after you checked in, you have to go down stairs, go through the cramped immigration hall, get on the APM, only to go back to the main terminal 1! whats the point???? why dont they use the money to expand the terminal 1 instead? i dont think it would cost as much to fill in 2 extra rows of check in counter in T1? the design of T2 is also disappointing, its cheap looking, lack of windows, lack of natural lights, spacious? yes it is, but only because it is underused, the entire "mall" only served two rows of check in counter, you can imagine how much traffic over there, its just a matter of time b4 those shops have to end their business.

Quote:
(another disappointment if anyone of you might have noticed is the baggage claim hall - after the recent refurbishment work - they've now attached this massive overhang (ie grey lump) with some horrible lights running right in the middle and across the whole stretch of the hall. i'm sure it's to do with possibly ventilation or maybe other technical improvements but it's completely out of place and im sure norman won't be too happy seeing that)
any photos to show how bad it is?

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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:24 PM   #59
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^ not necessarily agree with both of you.
ok, the passengers need to be shuttled from the main terminal to the north concourse. that's a two minutes ride for your hours of journey. big deal. it isn't like we don't do that today with 70 or so boarding gates. some airlines still choose to park their planes out in the airfield for lower parking cost, and shuttle passengers to/from the main terminal to the parking spot like the "OLD" days. it's just a wrong impression by people everyone boards through a bridge. but now we have a terminal for those airlines and passengers. which way is better? shuttle to the plane and walk up the stairs over a truck? or shuttle to the terminal, take the escalator, then broad through a bridge?

building a new satellite terminal like changqi is a whole new ball game.
it isn't just the boarding gates, but now you are asking for new check-in spaces, new baggage handling facilities, and new external transportation services for that terminal of TEN spaces. worthy? and where would you put it? chek lap kok is an island reclaimed from sea and two small islands. the airport island was reclaimed just barely fit all facilities on it. eastern part of the island is mainly for passenger service; and southern part are cargo services and logistic. the runway and airfield are bounded by passenger service to the east, cargo service to the south, and water to the west and north. unless we reclaim more from the water, which is big money, there is no room to construct another facility on the perimeter. and you aren't going to want this facility away form the airfield perimeter.

by having those low-cost carrier passengers remain to check-in at the built terminals, it doesn't require new check-in spaces, new baggage facilities and new supportive transportation system. now everything will still be the same roof and processed through the main terminal, and the state-of-the-art baggage handling system we have at HKIA. there is no different between transporting the baggage from the existing baggage center to the existing parking spots at terminal 1, than transporting the baggage to the new spot at the north concourse. to the transporter, it's just shipping to another spot in the airfield.

Terminal 2 is designed to relieve the overcrowded check-in counters in Terminal 1. it has never had a intention for boarding. yes, it's rather empty today; but it's designed to suit for FUTURE capacity that are expected in the coming years. airlines are slowly moving into Terminal 2 in the past two years, and more will be there.

there is very limited spaces in terminal 1. where can AA expand the check-in concourse. to the north is the carpark and regal hotel, immediate to the east is the highway and railway, to the west is the main building. only expanding to the south is a possible solution. but how much you can expand from there? extra 5 rows?

again, expanding the check-in concourse doesn't solve the overcrowded situation, but only further stretch the limit with more check-in counters and passengers at terminal 1. building a new satellite terminal for check-in and a cross-boarder bus terminal immediate north of terminal 1 is the most convenient solution. this solves the terminal 1 check-in concourse problem, and still utilizes everything that are built for terminal 1. from the airport express, bus terminal, baggage handling facilities, boarding gates etc.
it also expands the opportunities for an easily accessed cross-boarder bus terminal to expand the service area to include the whole pearl river delta.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #60
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I have taken the so-called 'bus' to the remote stands for CR Airways (the airline before it became Hong Kong Airlines), and more recently, Vietnam Airlines. That lounge is just a cramped area below the main terminal. Once you leave immigration / security, you pretty much descend to that gate and will not likely see the magnificent terminal anyway. Then you hope it doesn't rain out, or else it's a drench to march up the plane on that staircase.

While this type of departure makes unique photo-taking possibilities, I'd prefer bus to terminal to airbridge - at least I'll be dry.

I thought the main purpose for T2 was to give more check-in counters? Then add more amenities through shops? From a convenience perspective, it's irrelevant for Airport Express passengers, but for bus passengers, it's a bit of a pain to get out there, then train back to T1, and transfer again for the remote gates.

I really wished they did a better job designing T2 though.

Even before the economic crisis came, I was a bit surprised how few airlines actually moved to T2, but the immigration / security area is deserted, which is great.
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