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Old October 27th, 2008, 03:32 AM   #21
DML2
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I like all kinds of suburbs, even the lower-class fugly ones
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Old October 27th, 2008, 08:26 AM   #22
Botev1912
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Seattle suburbs

Bellevue






Kirkland

















Lynnwood



























Shoreline



Snohomish










Edmonds













Woodway










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Old October 27th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #23
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reminds me of that movie - office space

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Old October 27th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #24
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those suburbs look much better than the gray commieblocks areas in the central and eastern european cities
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Old October 27th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
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those suburbs look much better than the gray commieblocks areas in the central and eastern european cities
Do they? They look just as bland and boring in a different way. There is something about suburbs the world over. I'd still rather have commie blocks than sprawl though! Personal preference of course.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #26
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I prefer a mix of single family homes with small & medium sized apartments, as well as decent public transit. But maybe that's too unrealistic in most cases
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Old October 27th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #27
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very interesting!
you have a few strange cars i've never seen before...

would like to visit all this places, but i can't imagine to live there...
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Old October 27th, 2008, 11:30 PM   #28
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If people didn't like living in suburbs they wouldn't exist. Before energy became relatively scarce and more expensive it is easy to understand how a lot of people desired more personal space and moved to colonize a lot of empty space outside cities. America isn't Europe, we have more land than most Europeans can imagine. It is only natural our urban areas developed this way.

Is it for everyone - of course not. But for people who aren't that interested in culture and who just like coming home from work every night and watching TV or watching their kids play soccer or whatever why wouldn't they prefer a free standing house and a yard over living in an apartment building?
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Old October 28th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #29
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Not entirely, outer and fringe suburbs with their very attractive 'Land & house packages' make suburbia far more affordable than the inner cities. Many don't have a choice when a small 1 or 2br inner city apartment cost the same as a nice 4br home on a typical 1/4 acre block out in the burbs. They are forced to live in dull suburbia.

Land is plenty here as well (Only 21.5 million people in a country in similar size to the USA) and it doesn't help when you have shortsighted governments building more freeways and releasing huge parcells of land for housing developments.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plcmat View Post
If people didn't like living in suburbs they wouldn't exist. Before energy became relatively scarce and more expensive it is easy to understand how a lot of people desired more personal space and moved to colonize a lot of empty space outside cities. America isn't Europe, we have more land than most Europeans can imagine. It is only natural our urban areas developed this way.

Is it for everyone - of course not. But for people who aren't that interested in culture and who just like coming home from work every night and watching TV or watching their kids play soccer or whatever why wouldn't they prefer a free standing house and a yard over living in an apartment building?
European countries have also controlled their growth more.

As for preferences, people tend to get greedy. For greater-good reasons like environmental protection and reduced transportation needs, I'll take controlled dense growth anyday.

I do like the dozens of mixed-use centers in suburban Seattle. The downtowns of Bellevue, Kirkland, and Edmonds are three of the best and most cohesive examples of our large, medium, and small suburban centers.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 07:14 PM   #31
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it's always interesting to see some Mcmansions with places for 3 or 4 cars. it's very, very rare to see this in europe. However, i think that for example, doing shopping in a commercial center is less interessant that doing shopping in european's streets...
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Old October 28th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
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European countries have also controlled their growth more.

As for preferences, people tend to get greedy. For greater-good reasons like environmental protection and reduced transportation needs, I'll take controlled dense growth anyday.

I do like the dozens of mixed-use centers in suburban Seattle. The downtowns of Bellevue, Kirkland, and Edmonds are three of the best and most cohesive examples of our large, medium, and small suburban centers.
I think European countries have controlled their growth more because they have had to. Until energy costs started rising and environmental impacts of sprawl became more publicizied American cities have never really had the incentive to do so as space around most American cities has always been virtually unlimited.

I think greedy is too strong a word - it is unrealistic to expect people to automatically sacrifice their own standard of living for some indeterminate greater good. Human nature just doesn't really work that way. I think incentives need to be put in place to encourage denser development like in those Seattle suburbs; I don't think we can depend on the collective good will of the people to make it happen.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #33
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Actually I wonder how people find the time to commute between home and work a couple of hours every day. My commute to school and back takes 1,5 hours a day in total and that's already a lot for me.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 02:22 AM   #34
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Yeah that is a prison looking high school. The worst of the US. So spiritless. US sprawl is the reason we need more oil. What a waste of culture, resources and planning.

Texas could have one big "Manhattan" like city but instead it has lots of big sprawlsy car dependent cities which keep sprawling.

Such poor planning. Makes us look really stupid as a country.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 02:27 AM   #35
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Although Seattle is gorgeous it is a mere speck compared to Metro NYC and the suburbs. Most suburbs of New York have a downtown and a train station. There are like 20 Bellevues outside of New York City...White Plains, Jersey City, Stamford, Yonkers, Bayonne, Newark, Hoboken, Hackensack.......
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Old October 29th, 2008, 02:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philadweller View Post
Although Seattle is gorgeous it is a mere speck compared to Metro NYC and the suburbs. Most suburbs of New York have a downtown and a train station. There are like 20 Bellevues outside of New York City...White Plains, Jersey City, Stamford, Yonkers, Bayonne, Newark, Hoboken, Hackensack.......
Its the same as compared to Los Angeles, we have Long Beach, Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, Santa Ana, Beverly HIlls, Huntington Park, , Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach, Seal Beach, Huntinton Beach, Laguna Beach, Orange, Newport Beach, and yes even cities as far away as in the Inland Empire have walkable downtowns, Riverside, Claremont, Pomona, and to a lesser extent Ontario. Many of these cities are also served by metro rail, or commuter rail (metrolink).
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Old October 29th, 2008, 02:50 AM   #37
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Thanks for sharing all of you. I kind of like American suburbs in some way.

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This is not much better than a prison, really.

Yeah that was my first thought aswell.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 03:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by plcmat View Post
I think European countries have controlled their growth more because they have had to. Until energy costs started rising and environmental impacts of sprawl became more publicizied American cities have never really had the incentive to do so as space around most American cities has always been virtually unlimited.
The reasons are definitely a mixture. There's definitely less kowtowing to individuals, and definitely a stronger environmental ethic and community ethic, on average.

PS: On the US West Coast, most cities have had some mixture of geographic and/or regulatory limits on outward growth for many years. Combined with population growth, this has resulted in significant densification despite the relative youth of our cities. But none of us are even remotely approaching what's typical in Europe in terms of overall density or confined development patterns.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 03:14 AM   #39
mhays
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Originally Posted by philadweller View Post
Although Seattle is gorgeous it is a mere speck compared to Metro NYC and the suburbs. Most suburbs of New York have a downtown and a train station. There are like 20 Bellevues outside of New York City...White Plains, Jersey City, Stamford, Yonkers, Bayonne, Newark, Hoboken, Hackensack.......
Obviously NY has many more good suburban and urban centers, and much bigger ones. LA probably has the lead in that though.

I'd consider some of the ones you mention more like Tacoma than Bellevue in age, distance, and size, though generally they're more vibrant and dense than Downtown Tacoma despite its resurgence.

Aside from older downtowns like Newark, I'm not aware of a compact downtown area outside NYC that's on Downtown Bellevue's scale.

I want Seattle to have more suburban highrise districts, and in the coming years we might. But I also love our dozens of small-scale centers. PS, we're voting on a $17b rail expansion next week, so some, like Bellevue, might get rail.
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