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View Poll Results: Your favourite skyline: cast your vote!
Frankfurt am Main - Germany 532 32.92%
Rotterdam - the Netherlands 199 12.31%
London - UK 230 14.23%
Paris - France 380 23.51%
Warsaw - Polen 275 17.02%
Voters: 1616. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 26th, 2009, 12:42 PM   #501
DidacXavier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiff View Post
Those last barcelona pics proove that it has a very poor skyline, any talls merge into the surroundings and dont form a skyline. For example in this pic all the tallest buildng are clearly defined and form a cohesive skyline of different styles



and an extra one because its nice

image hosted on flickr

Please ... You really think this is a skyline? With only 2 or 3 highrises? I wish that someone was able to put a picture of Liverpool as those of Barcelona have to check what is the skyline of this great effect in a much broader plane of Liverpool. It is simply ridiculous. Only with the Mapfre Tower and Hotel Arts in Barcelona (the twin towers of over 150 meters), there are already more than in Barcelona skyline in Liverpool. I have some questions:

1) In this list, Liverpool has 50 votes, and Madrid 38

LIVERPOOL, 50 VOTES





MADRID, 38 VOTES






Why Liverpool has more votes tham Madrid? Is it reasonable? I think no.


2) Pano of Liverpool and pano of Barcelona

LIVERPOOL





BARCELONA




Really you think skyline of Liverpool is better than Barcelona? The pano demonstrates that the skyline of Liverpool is imperceptible from far, and the skyline of Barcelona is more clear and definited.
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Last edited by DidacXavier; March 26th, 2009 at 03:57 PM.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:13 PM   #502
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Liverpool and Barcelona both don't have any more of a skyline than Cologne does.
All three of these cities simply just don't really have one at all.


(If Barcelona or Liverpool have a skyline, then this here is a skyline, too. And it's even better!)
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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:37 PM   #503
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What do you understand by "skyline" ?? Only tall buildings??
Highrises aren't necessary for a great skyline, and Barcelona proves that.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 05:11 PM   #504
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^I don't know what it is. Just something that makes it look awesome. That gives the city something special.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opgezetfan View Post
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old March 26th, 2009, 06:08 PM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usek25 View Post
What do you understand by "skyline" ?? Only tall buildings??
Highrises aren't necessary for a great skyline, and Barcelona proves that.


In that case , why london and paris are behind frankfurt ?

Because we are in Skycraperscity.com !
Highrises are necassary for a great skyline and in the EU , only Frankfurt , paris , london , madrid , warsaw and roterdame have a real skyline !
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Old March 26th, 2009, 06:16 PM   #506
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I would love it if provincial British cities had a skyline like Rotterdams. Bulk and a great shape to it.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 06:17 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usek25 View Post
What do you understand by "skyline" ?? Only tall buildings??
Highrises aren't necessary for a great skyline, and Barcelona proves that.
to explain why I believe Barcelona and Liverpool both don't have a skyline,
let me ask your question the other way around.
Somewhat like this:

Skyline or not?

1) Hannover:






2) Dortmund:
image hosted on flickr




3) Le Havre:
image hosted on flickr







4) Liège:




5) Munich:
image hosted on flickr


6) Rennes:
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


7)...

Do you kind of get the idea of what I'm trying to show you here?

All these cities have tall buildings, and more or less nice panoramas, but no skyline. Just like Liverpool or Barcelona.
Or have you ever heard anyone mention the great "skyline" of Hannover? Dortmund? Bonn? Rennes? Liège?
Do you seriously believe all these cities actually really do have a "skyline"?
A "skyline" and not just a bunch or handfull of taller buildings. Really a "skyline" and not just a panorama.
seriously, I personally believe that by let me call it "international" standards there#s only one city in Europe or the EU that really does have a true skyline.
And that's Frankfurt. That's the only city that has a decent "skyline" even though it's not as impressive as those of Manhattan, Shanghai, Hong-Kong, Tokyo...

Even Paris and London don't really have a skyline, simpy because the skyscrapers in those cities are pretty far out from the center, in a suburb or outer district.
So these skyscrapers are hardly a major, or central part of the cities overall panorama. If they were, then the Big Ben, the Tower Bridge or the Eiffel Tower wouldn't stand out so much in the center.
In paris even the Arc de Triomphe is a tall structure in the city centre. And that's why London and Paris both, like Berlin, Amsterdam, Athens...etc. all don't have a real "skyline" either.
That's my opinion.
If you want to include some of the districts with skyscrapers in those cities into the skline definition, that's ok also, but I personally wouldn't really.
Simply because nearly any larger city in the US for example has more of a skyline than those do
and because their skyscrapers aren't really much of an essential part of the cities overall character or panorama.
They're mostly just merely a nice little asset to the overall city-panorama.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #508
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This seems to be quite old but probably Britains equivlent to Rotterdam skyline wise. Just a shame Birminghams the most inland city in the country.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemanniafan View Post

Do you kind of get the idea of what I'm trying to show you here?

All these cities have tall buildings, and more or less nice panoramas, but no skyline. Just like Liverpool or Barcelona.
Or have you ever heard anyone mention the great "skyline" of Hannover? Dortmund? Bonn? Rennes? Liège?
Do you seriously believe all these cities actually really do have a "skyline"?
A "skyline" and not just a bunch or handfull of taller buildings. Really a "skyline" and not just a panorama.
seriously, I personally believe that by let me call it "international" standards there#s only one city in Europe or the EU that really does have a true skyline.
And that's Frankfurt. That's the only city that has a decent "skyline" even though it's not as impressive as those of Manhattan, Shanghai, Hong-Kong, Tokyo...

Even Paris and London don't really have a skyline, simpy because the skyscrapers in those cities are pretty far out from the center, in a suburb or outer district.
So these skyscrapers are hardly a major, or central part of the cities overall panorama. If they were, then the Big Ben, the Tower Bridge or the Eiffel Tower wouldn't stand out so much in the center.
In paris even the Arc de Triomphe is a tall structure in the city centre. And that's why London and Paris both, like Berlin, Amsterdam, Athens...etc. all don't have a real "skyline" either.
That's my opinion.
If you want to include some of the districts with skyscrapers in those cities into the skline definition, that's ok also, but I personally wouldn't really.
Simply because nearly any larger city in the US for example has more of a skyline than those do
and because their skyscrapers aren't really much of an essential part of the cities overall character or panorama.
They're mostly just merely a nice little asset to the overall city-panorama.
You have the wrong concept of a skyline! A skyline is defined as a silhouette formed in front of the horizon by it's buildings and structures. No one ever defined it as a silhouette of skyscrapers. Not to mention that in the case of Cologne the cathedral is much taller than many highrise buildings!
The quality of a skyline or silhouette is very subjective. There are tiny small beautiful skylines as those of Liverpool or Barcelona, some others somwhat bigger like Rotterdam or Frankfurt or Paris and there are the big skylines like NYC or Hong Kong and also big skylines that are only big but buttugly (as well as some smaller ones are).
So you have to accept that there are people who consider skyline by it's meaning as city silhouette and not a highrise, skyscraper line as you see it! And having skyscrapers in it or not, the silhouettes remain what they are: Lines in the sky/horizon. That is where the name comes from and not from your own not very broad-minded definition of it. A good example you have given yourself about how a tiny line in the sky can also be beautiful and indeed a line in the sky:
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #510
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Birmingham can't compeat with Rotterdam, Rotterdam will win. It's skyline looks much better.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #511
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I haven't given my list of best skylines yet so here it is:

In my opinion:
1. Frankfurt: by far
2. Paris: clear 2nd
3. Warsaw: a nice skyline with modern buildings + clear outstanding above the rest of the city + with the new projects coming up in a a few years it can be a clear 3rd for me.
4. London: I like Canary Wharf (don't like 'the city' skyline tho) but it just needs some more towers and more height. London has the potential to be one of the best skylines but it just needs more dense. The 360° view of London is spectacular tho but the skyline is just ok. Overall a clear 4th with a lot of potential.
5. Rotterdam: From the 5th place it gets thougher which city to chose but the skyline of Rotterdam is very modern (most are new buildings) and this has the edge above Madrid and Liverpool/Birmingham for me. It needs more height and dense tho but so does most other cities
6. Madrid: The 4 new modern towers edge it for me.

From here on you can include most cities like Napels, Liverpool, Birmingham, Barcelona, Berlin, etc... Most of them have a few churches/appartments sticking out but so have a lot of cities all over Europe. It's a matter of personal taste which you prefer.
Too many 'average' skylines to actually compete for best skyline in Europe so I wouldn't really include them but ok
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #512
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Somewhat bigger Warsaw pano.



Vilnius and Vienna imo have better skylines than Birmingham or Liverpool.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:54 PM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM
You have the wrong concept of a skyline! A skyline is defined as a silhouette formed in front of the horizon by it's buildings and structures. No one ever defined it as a silhouette of skyscrapers...
Yes, of course I surely do have a wrong concept..

because I happen to see a difference between a panorama and a skyline.
Of course you could and can reasonably argue that any city or town or to be correct even tiny little village has an artificial horizon created by its buildings and structures that form a skyline.
But honestly... do you really use the word that way?

According to your definition of skyline this here is also a skyline:

Do you really honestly believe that's worth calling it skyline.
Do you really know anyone who would this a "skyline" in everyday language?
Did you ever use the word skyline for a simmilar panorama like the one of this village here? I haven't!
If you seriously wan't to call this nice little villagepanorama a skyline go ahead... I won't!

and by the way this is how wikipedia describes the word skyline:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline,
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A skyline is best described as the overall or partial view of a silhouette of a city's tall buildings and structures consisting of many skyscrapers in front of the sky in the background. It can also be described as the artificial horizon that a city's overall structure creates. Skylines serve as a kind of fingerprint of a city, as no two skylines are alike. For this reason news and sports programs, television shows, and movies often display the skyline of a city to set location.

Paul D. Spreiregen, FAIA, has called a skyline "a physical representation [of a city's] facts of life ... a potential work of art ... its collective vista."[1]

In general, larger cities have broader and taller skylines, though lower density cities often have smaller skylines than expected for city size. Taller buildings are found where either land value or desire for visibility is higher, and the tallest buildings in a city are usually office buildings. Because of this, the skyline of a city can be seen as symbolic of the city's influence and economy.
In this description there cleary is an aspect of skyscrapers mentioned. As I said, I personally think a real "skyline" is more than just a bunch of buildings. You may have a different opinion. And I don't even care if you really believe this villagepanorama is also skyline or not...
I just find it kind of ridiculous to use the word "skyline" for a panorama of a city like Hannover or Liverpool. It may be usable by definition, if you use it in the sense of an artificial horizon or the border- horizon-line between the sky and the cities buildings structures trees hills, whatever. I just think that's a pretty ridiculous way of stretching the word skyline, because then it doesn't really have anything in common with the skylines the skyscrapers of large cities form. Then it's basically nothing more than just any panorama of any possible artificial horizon.
And in my personal view, (which of course surely might also be a bit on the opposite strict end) that's just nonsense and surely not how the vast majority of people use the word skyline.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 12:28 AM   #514
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Wikipedia is created by anyone so lets discount that straight away! lol

A skyline is the shape of the cities tallest buildings against the backdrop of its surroundings (eg sky, mountains etc.) A pleaseing skyline (at least for me) is one where the tallest buildings (be they church spires or 2000ft skyscrapers) come collectively together to form a pleasing silhouet. Barcelonas tallest buildings are very seperated and where they are together are of so similar height as to form a plateau and hence no distinct shape against its background. Liverpool and Birmingham, while not the best in Europe do show this for me with the buildings not too distantly seperated and with variations in height and with focal tallest buildings. Barcelonas skyline looks best when all the tallest buildings (gaudis cathedral and skyscrapers) are all viewed together but in reality they are too far apart.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 01:23 AM   #515
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Well for me the houses in birmingham and liverpool simply aren't tall enough.
For UK standards they might be. But for european standards they're not worth mentioning.
Liege mostly has taller buildings, and in my view that city has no skyline either, even though it does somewhat look kinda like a skyscrapercity. But those buldings there are mostly appartementhouses and in my view not tall enough to be true skyscrapers or High rises under modern comparison. Of course under standards half a century ago and more those would prbably all be viewed as impressively tall structures. And at that time Manhattan didn't have many taller buildings than you can find in Liège.

One last example I have is: Eschborn, which really does have several modern and quite tall buildings:

(basically all the bright buildings in the sunlight in the left and center of the panorama are in Eschborn, the ones further back to the right are the much taller skyscrapers from Frankfurt.)
The problem here with Eschborn is, that it doesn't distinguish much from the skyline of Frankfurt simply because it's buildings are too small.
And Eschborn viewed isolated all by itself still does have a better and nicer skyline than Birmingham, Liverpool or Barcelona.
Now as I said i personally don't think Eschborn even qualifies for a real skyline. But still I would kind of accept it being viewed as one, since it surely does meet several aspects. But The skyline of Eschborn just dissapears in the entire skyline of the Frankfurt area. It just looks like those buildings are part of Frankfurt. So even Eschborn doesn't really have it's own skyline, because from wherever you look, there's basically allways the much bigger and much more impressive Frankfurt in the panorama also. So Eschborns skyline is just being "eaten up" by Frankfurts skyline, it just doesn't optically stand out, it's just a part of the overal big ensemble of "frankfurts skyscrapers". Even though Eschborn isn't even part of the city of Frankfurt.

So in my own personal view Liverpool, Birmingham and Barcelona all just don't quite meet my personal minimum requirements for a real "skyline", those "babyskylines" just aren't really much worthwile mentioning.
Even though there are several nice panoramas of these cities posted here.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlchris View Post
Birmingham can't compeat with Rotterdam, Rotterdam will win. It's skyline looks much better.
No where close yet. But ... (taken from skyscrapernews) it has plans.

















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Old March 27th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizmo1337 View Post
5. Rotterdam: From the 5th place it gets thougher which city to chose but the skyline of Rotterdam is very modern (most are new buildings) and this has the edge above Madrid and Liverpool/Birmingham for me. It needs more height and dense tho but so does most other cities
More height and density is coming to Rotterdam!

01. Weenaboulevard 1 (240m*) (in development)
02. Zalmhaventoren (188m)(212, with spire) (in development)
03. Weenaboulevard 2 (180m*) (in development)
04. Baltimore (173m) (in development)
05. Maastoren (165m) (U/C)
06. New Orleans (158m) (U/C)
07. Havana (154m) (in development)
08. Stationskwartier Weenahof (150m*) (study)
09. Rotterdam (149m) (in development)
10. Stationskwartier Blok B (135m*) (study)
11. Boompjes (135m) (studie)
12. Stationskwartier Weenapoint I (130m*) (study)
13. Boompjes 55-57 (125m) (study)
14. Erasmus MC/Hoboken II (125m) (U/C)
15. Stationskwartier Schiekadeblok II (120m*) (study)
16. Up:Town (118m) (in development)
17. De Grote Beer (110m) (in development)
18. 100HOOG (100m) (in development)
19. Oostpleintoren (100m) (in development)
20. Stationskwartier Weenapoint II (100m*) (study)
21. Stationskwartier nabij Weenahof (100m*) (study)

* Exact heights aren't set yet
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Old March 27th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #518
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@Ecological - I never knew Birmingham had so much towers in development

But, looking at the already excisting skyline of Rotterdam and the list above, Rotterdam will have an impressive skyline.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:27 PM   #519
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Quote:
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Yes, of course I surely do have a wrong concept..

because I happen to see a difference between a panorama and a skyline.
A panorama is - as the word says - a random view! A skyline as ridiculous as it may look like, can also be made up by houses and churches. Why not? Do they NOT form a line in the sky? They do. So that is a skyline - really a ridiculous one and all but impressive but nevertheless a skyline. That is like saying only Maybach and Rolls are cars and the rest are ridiculous vehicles.
You are very close-minded and I am sure you are from some very boring small place you hate to live in. At least that is what you sound like!
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:42 PM   #520
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