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View Poll Results: Your favourite skyline: cast your vote!
Frankfurt am Main - Germany 532 32.92%
Rotterdam - the Netherlands 199 12.31%
London - UK 230 14.23%
Paris - France 380 23.51%
Warsaw - Polen 275 17.02%
Voters: 1616. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 19th, 2009, 06:49 PM   #781
Fabrega
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Rotterdam has what i called a nice postcard, picture skyline. Nice waterfront and bridge always makes a great shot. But in reality when you see it with your own eyes is not all that. Unleash you are easily impress with low highrises, once you are there you get that feeling "it looked taller in the picture" . On another note is a good thing they are improving this by building higher towers now.

But please, it is ridiculous to believe that in real life you would get more imprest by 8 100m towers, than by 4 200m towers. Sorry no way my jaw drops for 100meter towers. Actually, now when i see new projects that are 100m is like meh, not imprest, hope for a really modern, excellent design to make up for its lack of heigth. Anyone that has seen 250m buildings don't see towers of a 100m ever the same. Rotterdam does not have a better skyline than warsa or madrid, maybe in picture but not live. Still Rotterdam has a very fotogenic skyline because of the lack of midrises that would put their towers into a better prespective. An this is really noticiable because towers in Rotterdam never seem to be overtowering other midrises. Thats when you can tell skylines are most impressive because they rise above other buildings.

Here is a shot of madrids CTBA overtowering 75m+ residentials.


pic by danny

Last edited by Fabrega; May 19th, 2009 at 07:14 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 06:54 PM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipfelstürmer View Post
[IMG]http://i41.************/28i5ked.jpg[/IMG]
C'mon, if you live in the Netherlands, you know the Rotterdam skyline is something that you will never see in other cities here. It's not Dutch
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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:20 PM   #783
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Nope, indeed !

This is a Dutch skyscraper :


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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:25 PM   #784
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Warsaw
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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #785
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@parcdesprinces - Lol, that's true. That's why it takes so long to build the 262m tower in Utrecht or the 212m tower in Rotterdam.
Because people aren't used to skyscrapers, if they are aware of the fact that there is going to be a skyscraper in the street where they live to will go crazy.
They start making an internet site to prevent bulding the thing etc. etc.. But on the other hand, the quality of the tower is mostly very good.
Because people don't want to have it built unless it's how they want it, so that's also why the height mostly drops.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #786
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europe needs much more characteristical highrighses, some ambitious designs, and not allways those cuboid world-standard "built on rationality" mishmash structures. there should be no achievement gap in this case.


dense or not dense, high or midrise, cluster or the whole city ... the quantity or the size is not the problem, but the design is in my opinon.

are you really proud of an 100+ 200+ 300+ meter cubus in your town? many millions of euros for a cubus with a foreign promising name? there are thousands of buildings with the same coverage type and design in the world.

nothing to be proud of in my opinion.

a tad more inner-european self criticism and a higher quality requirement would be advisable.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 10:05 PM   #787
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Have you seen the quality of skyscrapers in Rotterdam and Frankfurt? There are a few boxes, but also other designs wich make it more unique.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 10:22 PM   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlchris View Post
Have you seen the quality of skyscrapers in Rotterdam and Frankfurt? There are a few boxes, but also other designs wich make it more unique.
i've noticed only three or maybe four "worthy of mention" and representative, characteristic highrises inside the eu in comparison with the rest of the world.

1. 30 st mary axe london
2. palais quartier frankfurt
3. turning torso in malmö
4. palac kultury in warszawa

and maybe the torre agbar in barcelona , but honestly, it looks more like a copy of mary axe.

thats it.
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Last edited by craperskys; May 19th, 2009 at 10:33 PM. Reason: deleted the 1 from the 130 mary axe , it's a 30 at least:)
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Old May 19th, 2009, 10:43 PM   #789
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Statendam, Rotterdam
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolkenbestormer View Post
[IMG]http://i41.************/2lj2ov4.jpg[/IMG]
The Red Apple, Rotterdam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaas View Post
Scheepmakerstower, Rotterdam
Quote:
New Orleans, Rotterdam (u/c )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
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Old May 19th, 2009, 10:59 PM   #790
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Craperskys, you don't have a clue, do you?
Frankfurt's towers are far from just "cubes".

Messe Tower
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twentyeight/127045067/

Commerzbank Tower
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tobi0406/2901087193/
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcdead/2413324301/

Westend Tower
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2974226167/

Maintower
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/photorisma/3483838777/

Main Plaza
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1416311799/

Last edited by Tiaren; May 19th, 2009 at 11:04 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 11:05 PM   #791
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Frankfurt scrapers are beautiful and every single one is in the right place. Whole Europe should learn from you, and I think that your skyline will be no.1 for many years
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Last edited by Elvenking; May 19th, 2009 at 11:42 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 11:05 PM   #792
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@Tiaren - Almost all Frankfurt skyscrapers are unique and well known. Very nice.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 11:26 PM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Craperskys, you don't have a clue, do you?
Frankfurt's towers are far from just "cubes".

i've wrote a lot of lines with text, full sentences at least with a clear declaration.
the word cubus was obviously and clearly used as an metaphoric element to emphasize the sense and meaning of "primitive geometric and boring standards".

people also use the term "boxes" in context with architectural structures and buildings. (Same difference )


but from where the heck did you pick the statement: craperskys: all towers in frankfurt are cubes! ?

just curious to know.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 11:46 PM   #794
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Edit for better understanding:
Frankfurt is situted in Europe, so it's full of cubes, as all highrises and skyscrapers here in Europe are. That's not what you wanted to express?

Quote:
Originally Posted by craperskys View Post
europe needs much more characteristical highrighses, some ambitious designs, and not allways those cuboid world-standard "built on rationality" mishmash structures. there should be no achievement gap in this case.


dense or not dense, high or midrise, cluster or the whole city ... the quantity or the size is not the problem, but the design is in my opinon.

are you really proud of an 100+ 200+ 300+ meter cubus in your town? many millions of euros for a cubus with a foreign promising name? there are thousands of buildings with the same coverage type and design in the world.

nothing to be proud of in my opinion.

a tad more inner-european self criticism and a higher quality requirement would be advisable.

Last edited by Tiaren; May 20th, 2009 at 12:32 AM.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post

Frankfurt is situated in Europe, you know.
ich will dir echt nicht zu nahe treten, und mir liegt stress mit den usern hier fern, aber entweder kannst du sehr schlecht englisch, zumindest passen deine antworten inhaltlich schlecht zu meinen aussagen, oder ich drücke mich , (' jetzt mal vorsichtig ausgedrückt') nicht simpel genug aus.

welche option soll ich nun zur kenntnis nehmen?
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Old May 20th, 2009, 12:12 AM   #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craperskys View Post
ich will dir echt nicht zu nahe treten, und mir liegt stress mit den usern hier fern, aber entweder kannst du sehr schlecht englisch, zumindest passen deine antworten inhaltlich schlecht zu meinen aussagen, oder ich drücke mich , (' jetzt mal vorsichtig ausgedrückt') nicht simpel genug aus.

welche option soll ich nun zur kenntnis nehmen?
Hast du nicht alle Wolkenkratzer-Designs hier in Europa über einen Kamm geschert? Von wegen, sie wären doch alle uninspirierte Standartkuben, auf die man nicht stolz sein könnte?
Vielleicht drückst du dich ja zu simpel und zu verallgemeinernd aus, hm?

Da ich nicht wusste, ob du beispielsweise Frankfurts Wolkenkrazer kennst, war ich so nett und hab' dir ein paar rausgesucht. Wo ist denn jetzt dein Problem?

Now enough with the talk in German, sorry!
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Old May 20th, 2009, 12:14 AM   #797
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crapper (pun intended): But he exactly got your point, at least what I read between your lines.
Basically you're saying they'd build nothing but boxes around Europe.

That's just far from the truth. I rather think most European highrises are way above global standards. Just have a look at all those walled copy-clusters in East Asia or the kitschy stuff going up in the Emirates. You won't find similar stuff in the EU.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 01:14 AM   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butch83 View Post
Nice excuse mr highly civilized Spanian
Anyways, after the war Warsaw was pretty much a pile of rubble. Some buildings were rebuild, but most of the city is completly different than pre war city. There are no valuable historic buildings next to any scraper. You know wild people in the east respect their heritage as well, rebuilt old town is unesco listed and much respected.
I haven't gotten to the "wild east", as you say. I simply said that in Spain is much more complicated to build highrises in other sites. Here is a popular rejection of his type of project. In fact, as an example, in Seville is building a highrise of 170m, and although it is building on the outskirts of the city, the commencement of works has been delayed because of protests by the people of Seville, who complained highrise that damaged the image of the city.

Of course, my intention wasn't to disparage anyone or any country underestimated. What I am saying is that in Madrid it would be unthinkable to build in height at the center of town, unlike in Warsaw, which is the cluster center.

Greetings.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 01:20 AM   #799
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There is nothing wrong with box scrapers, if done rigth anyways. Madrid don't have many boxes, for the most part our towers have different shapes. But the boxes we have i love them. One of the most elegant boxes i seen, design by the same architec that made WTC. Torre Picasso is simply timeless, another really good box is the marriot in Warsaw.



flickr

Last edited by Fabrega; May 20th, 2009 at 01:41 AM.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 02:03 AM   #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
(pun intended):
nice undiplomatic start, for a first timer

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Just have a look at all those walled copy-clusters in East Asia or the kitschy stuff going up in the Emirates. You won't find similar stuff in the EU.
hey how can you say that ? kitschy and copy-clusters? ... how does self reflection feels like?

but more in the tiaren reply ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Hast du nicht alle Wolkenkratzer-Designs hier in Europa über einen Kamm geschert? Von wegen, sie wären doch alle uninspirierte Standartkuben, auf die man nicht stolz sein könnte?
Vielleicht drückst du dich ja zu

Da ich nicht wusste, ob du beispielsweise Frankfurts Wolkenkrazer kennst, war ich so nett und hab' dir ein paar rausgesucht. Wo ist denn jetzt dein Problem?

Now enough with the talk in German, sorry
nachdem ich erklärt habe das ich einen recht standarisierten begriff benutzt habe , und dann im weiterführenden post die anwendung der/meiner metaphorik im bezug zu cubus erläutert habe; das also in europa mehr oder weniger ein vergleichbar langweiliger und unspektakulärer stil gebaut wird war ich mir eigentlich sicher das es als wie üblich als einzelmeinung, zu der ich natürlich nach wie vor stehe, verstanden wurde und danach nicht mehr groß auf die pauke geschlagen wird, fast schon so als hätte ich den nationalstolz aller hier beteiligten länder vorsätzlich mit füßen getreten.

aber dennoch war hier nicht "explizit" von frankfurt noch explizit von einer anderen bestimmten stadt die rede sondern im allgemeinen von europa bzw. von allgemein vorherrschenden europäischem hochbaustil , so kann man allein schon aus dieser streuung herraus sowieso nur größtenteils verallgemeinert einen standpunkt vortragen.

da ich aber ausnahmen weiter oben genannt habe (z.b. mary axe etc) war ich der meinung das man hier ganz klar unwillkürliches "über den kamm scheren" ausschließen kann.

und das es auch besser geht als wie man es in europa generell gewohnt ist, sieht man ja wenn man einfach hier nur einige bauprojekte der letzten 9 jahre in amerika, kanada oder meinetwegen australien etc. bis heute in den foren ansieht, da noch zu glauben man wäre in europa in gewisser weise standarisierend in sachen baustil wie erbse weiter oben meint irrt sich meiner meinung nach schon ein wenig.

aber wer konnte hier dieses schon fast hypokratisch anmutende zanober schon bei ein wenig kritik vorhersehen?

wie dem auch sei; pack schlägt sich, pack verträgt sich , von daher - you're right, enough of german chit chat!

have a nice
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