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Old January 31st, 2009, 11:34 PM   #1161
socrates#1fan
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Originally Posted by arenn View Post
I can't say that I agree with this. Classicism has long been a design inspiration, albeit a special case, and New World cities have long aped the architectural traditions of the old.
It has, going all the way back to the Hellenic age.
Anyhow, the classics have been changed through out history. Even Gothic borrows some from Greek styles but things have been created from the Dutch gable to the Mansard roof.
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Old January 31st, 2009, 11:44 PM   #1162
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I meant to clarify that yes, there have been lots of styles that take on classical elements, but they don't just make a carbon copy. It seemed to me that Socrates#1fan was designating the building styles of the late 19th century as the "standard" and saying that all new buildings should substantially copy those, hence the Carmel comparison. I am disagreeing with that, and saying that we should expect modern design that looks like a product of its time.
>:o
There is no 'standard' in architecture.
Locally the Victorians are our best general (The World War memorial is probably a greater example of Greco-Roman) example of the classic era.
No, you must have not understood me correctly about Carmel. Carmel is putting into play classic styles but I did not say it was ideal.
Where did I say all new buildings should be reproductions of the late Victorians? That is just silly.
What I am saying is that you do not want something that looks of our time; you want something that tries to be 'futuristic' and absolutely rejects the past. As far as this city's general development goes, it seems the tradition of mixing old with new continues again.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 05:57 PM   #1163
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Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
Anyway, they should build a parking garage(or underground parking). This is in the downtown loop, not an area hood.
A few thoughts in response.

1. This particular lot is certainly within "greater downtown" and presumably in the Mass Ave cultural district, but it's not within the mile square. Indeed, it's nearly a half-mile from the boundary of the Mile Square (the intersection of East/North/Mass) and over a mile from Monument Circle. Really, the location is part downtown, part "area hood."

2. One of the complaints about downtown development is the tendency to build expensive condos rather than affordable apartments. This development is the latter, and adding an expensive parking structure might well blow the project up.

3. The parking lot in question is there today. I would understand the complaint if this were a suburban style apartment complex proposal, but it's not. It a street-fronting apartment building with four stories replacing a one story office building. Nothing about the structure would prohibit future development of the lot. The parking lot is hidden from Mass Avenue and won't have any negative effect on the fabric of the avenue.

4. The lot in question isn't all that attractive as a piece of property. Currently, it is wedged between the Center Township building to the north/northwest, a Mayflower truck lot to the south, and the interstate to the east. I hope that the density of Mass Avenue increases such that someday that lot is developed. Or maybe someday Mayflower will move its facility out of downtown and that will be developed. But it seems to me that it's appropriate at this time, makes the building viable, and is in no way irreversible.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 06:05 PM   #1164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM Indy View Post
A few thoughts in response.

1. This particular lot is certainly within "greater downtown" and presumably in the Mass Ave cultural district, but it's not within the mile square. Indeed, it's nearly a half-mile from the boundary of the Mile Square (the intersection of East/North/Mass) and over a mile from Monument Circle. Really, the location is part downtown, part "area hood."

2. One of the complaints about downtown development is the tendency to build expensive condos rather than affordable apartments. This development is the latter, and adding an expensive parking structure might well blow the project up.

3. The parking lot in question is there today. I would understand the complaint if this were a suburban style apartment complex proposal, but it's not. It a street-fronting apartment building with four stories replacing a one story office building. Nothing about the structure would prohibit future development of the lot. The parking lot is hidden from Mass Avenue and won't have any negative effect on the fabric of the avenue.

4. The lot in question isn't all that attractive as a piece of property. Currently, it is wedged between the Center Township building to the north/northwest, a Mayflower truck lot to the south, and the interstate to the east. I hope that the density of Mass Avenue increases such that someday that lot is developed. Or maybe someday Mayflower will move its facility out of downtown and that will be developed. But it seems to me that it's appropriate at this time, makes the building viable, and is in no way irreversible.
You have a point. It is better than nothing(and better than what is currently there). My complaint is that there is still a parking lot!
I have too high of standards.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 06:39 PM   #1165
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The building appears to have been designed by A2SO4 if the Urban Times article can be believed. I think it is a solid design.
agreed
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Old February 1st, 2009, 06:40 PM   #1166
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I'm ok with the lot in that location for now. It can always be redeveloped later. In this case, let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

My bigger concern with this original is that the building was almost entirely subsidized housing. I don't think that's healthy. I prefer mixed income developments where ever possible for providing affordable housing.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 03:01 PM   #1167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
I'm ok with the lot in that location for now. It can always be redeveloped later. In this case, let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

My bigger concern with this original is that the building was almost entirely subsidized housing. I don't think that's healthy. I prefer mixed income developments where ever possible for providing affordable housing.
Subsidized doesn't necessarily mean "section-8" though. I believe the Davlan is subsidized and those are all "affordable, market-rate" projects.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:01 AM   #1168
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Tax-credit projects are mixed-income. Their project application has to specify how many units are reserved for each income level.

Since some of the "affordable" units might be reserved for folks with up to 80% of "area median income" (AMI), some young folks just starting out on their own might qualify. Young couples with one income and one in school (80% of AMI for two people was $41,700 last year), for instance. Starving musicians and artists with "day jobs" too. Divorced moms or dads starting over. These kinds of developments do not require "permanent poverty".
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 05:08 AM   #1169
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Cool new building

Cory Schouten at IBJ Property Lines posted this image of the proposed development at 22nd & Delaware St.

It's a modern take on "mid-century modern". President Obama, meet George Jetson.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:34 PM   #1170
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Not my favorite design, but pleased that the intersections in FCP are filling in with commercial
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 04:26 PM   #1171
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I like the design.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 04:51 PM   #1172
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I don't like this style but I like the density.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 07:24 PM   #1173
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Looks like I won't be getting home via I-69 today..a TWENTY CAR PILE-UP with 2 dead and the road shutdown from Mile #45 (Munice) all the way down to 116th Street. Approx 39 miles.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 08:06 PM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
Looks like I won't be getting home via I-69 today..a TWENTY CAR PILE-UP with 2 dead and the road shutdown from Mile #45 (Munice) all the way down to 116th Street. Approx 39 miles.
I'm guessing your alternate routes will be full of blowing and drifting snow, too. At least you have a casino nearby...probably better odds.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 01:05 AM   #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
Looks like I won't be getting home via I-69 today..a TWENTY CAR PILE-UP with 2 dead and the road shutdown from Mile #45 (Munice) all the way down to 116th Street. Approx 39 miles.
Yup, 31 car pile up. No commuting from Ball State down to Indianapolis
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Old February 4th, 2009, 01:40 AM   #1176
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Originally Posted by thundermutt View Post
Cory Schouten at IBJ Property Lines posted this image of the proposed development at 22nd & Delaware St.

It's a modern take on "mid-century modern". President Obama, meet George Jetson.
Yeesh. I like the location, landscaping, and type of building, but I don't care for that design. Way too much going on with the facade.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 06:23 AM   #1177
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Originally Posted by NaptownBoy View Post
Yeesh. I like the location, landscaping, and type of building, but I don't care for that design. Way too much going on with the facade.
Hmmm. Is there a door somewhere on this building?

What is the appendage on 22nd Street?
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Old February 4th, 2009, 01:18 PM   #1178
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The appendage is some sort of city mandated enclosure for outdoor storage associated with the proposed Ace Hardware.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 02:27 PM   #1179
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Hmmm. Is there a door somewhere on this building?
I'm just guessing that rear parking = rear door. There appears to be a door in the tower-like structure at the north end.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #1180
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I know this doesnt fit on any of the other site specific posts, but I snapped this from a jet flying back into indy last week. Thought you guys would dig

image hosted on flickr
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