Jacksonville Development News - Page 2

Lakelander · January 5th, 2004, 04:27 PM

Library bridge creates chasm
Mayor to join debate on building span

5 January 04

By MATT GALNOR
The Times-Union

Mayor John Peyton is expected to meet this week with downtown advocates concerned about a pedestrian bridge connected to the new main library.

Downtown business leaders want to state their case and say the city should encourage people to walk downtown, not take them off the streets with a bridge.

But the Jacksonville Library Board voted in November to recommend building the $250,000 bridge to connect the $95 million library with the adjacent 600-space parking garage.

The board wants to make the library as accessible as possible for people with disabilities, the elderly and parents who may be bringing small children into the library, library spokeswoman Stacie Bucher said.

"They want to make it as convenient as possible for the customers," Bucher said.

The library and garage are part of the $2.2 billion Better Jacksonville Plan, which voters approved in 2000 and which also includes other public buildings, road improvements and land preservation.

Former Mayor John Delaney didn't want the bridge, especially because the first level of the parking garage will have retail shops.

Peyton still is weighing both sides before making a decision, spokeswoman Susan Wiles said.

City Councilwoman Suzanne Jenkins said the city has worked too hard to get shops and restaurants to help create a vibrant downtown.

"For a city agency to pull people off the street flies in the face of what we've been doing," Jenkins said.

Downtown needs all the help it can get to bring people into the urban environment, said Jane Craven, president and chief executive of the Jacksonville Museum of Modern Art. Jacksonville doesn't have extremely cold weather that would require people to stay inside, and people won't be getting the full downtown experience if all they see is a parking garage and the library, Craven said.

Downtown Vision Inc., a non-profit organization that advocates for downtown, won't take a position on any specific project but is working to get as many people on the streets as possible, Marketing Director Lyn Briggs said.

"We're all about creating a pedestrian environment downtown, and as far as taking people off the street for whatever reason, we'd like to work together to find a solution to that," Briggs said.

But those who support the bridge say it can help make the library a gateway to downtown.

An easily accessible library would help, not hurt, downtown businesses, said Charlotte Temple, advocacy director for The Arc Jacksonville, a non-profit agency that serves people with developmental disabilities. The library could be the main draw to come downtown, especially if people know there's a place to park and can get into the library safely, said Temple, one of several people who lobbied the library board for the bridge late last year.

Once people are downtown, they may check out the museum and some restaurants, Temple said. If the bridge isn't there and people need to walk 1 1/2 blocks to get to the library, they may skip downtown and just go to a branch library in the suburbs, Temple said.

The library is expected to open at the end of the year.
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IMO, this pedestrian bridge is a bad idea. There are other ways to make it easy for people to get across Duval St., like putting in a landscape pedestrian crossing for example. It would not only put more people on the street, but also save the city some money. People will come to a library this massive regardless of whether there's a pedestrian bridge or not.

Lakelander · January 5th, 2004, 05:18 PM

originally posted by Skydivejunkee

Quote:

I love the new courthouse, does anyone have pics? Is it already under construction? It's a very classic design, evokes in my mind DC and Athens...go JAx! I'm actually impressed with all of FLs new courthouses, the federal in Miami and the county courthouse in Sarasota are especially nice. Orlando's new federal courthouse (not yet built) is not as nice as these IMO, but its still an evolving design. We will see. Once again, I'm impressed with this, and the library expansion. I'd like to see pictures of both if anyone has any.

Here are a couple of better jax plan projects

Jacksonville Veteran's Memorial Arena

Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville (across the street from arena)

New Main Library (presently under construction)

Library Construction pics
(first one by Captain Obvious)

Library (left), Library Parking Garage/retail (right)

the new library will be roughly a little taller than its new next door neighbor, the Jax Museum of Modern Art

library construction site last month

Duval County Courthouse

courthouse & new parking garage/retail
(garage can be seen just to the left of courthouse in the first pic)

the old federal courthouse will become a part of the new complex

front elevation

interior view (left) & main outdoor public space (right)

SkyDiveJunkee · January 5th, 2004, 07:00 PM

Hey thanks for the updates...I've never actually been through downtown JAX, it seems fairly dense and those are both great projects.

Lakelander · January 6th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Convention center sites under review

Tuesday, January 6, 2004

Former Mayor John Delaney, leader of The Better Jacksonville Plan, made it clear that the convention center would be an issue for the next mayor, and convention bureau leader Jack Diamond sounded the call on Monday.

He said that his group intends to recommend three to four downtown sites to administration and city leaders within three to four months for a 250,000-square-foot convention center that can be expanded.

The downtown sites need to be 10 to 15 acres on the Northbank or Southbank, either near a minimum 500-room hotel or a site that can support one, and preferably on the riverfront. The existing 78,000-square-foot Prime Osborn Convention Center downtown also is among the sites under consideration.

"Within three to four months we need to start narrowing down the site selection," Diamond told the Rotary Club of Jacksonville. Diamond, an architect and veteran downtown advocate, is chairman of the Jacksonville and the Beaches Convention & Visitors Bureau.

Within a year, he wants to have the facts, figures and financing figured out, and "be ready to go by next fall," after the 2005 Super Bowl. The plans need to be in place to show corporate leaders in town for the game to entice them to book conventions in Jacksonville, he said.

"If we don't get our act together, then shame on us," he said.

Diamond said the Jacksonville metro area ranks No. 15 in size in the country, but the convention center is No. 205.

He said two studies yielded three possibilities regarding the convention center. Left as is, the existing center would generate $532 million over 10 years in the economic impact of money spent by visitors in the area.

Another scenario shows that expanding the Prime Osborn and adding a hotel would create a 10-year impact of $1.04 billion to $1.29 billion and at least 1,509 jobs.

And a third possibility shows that building a new convention center would generate about $1.2 billion to $2.4 billion in economic impact and at least 1,797 jobs over 10 years.

Asked whether Mayor John Peyton, who took office in July, and City Council members were on board, Diamond said he couldn't speak for them, but said his group has spoken "with everybody." He said his group was told to analyze the issue and come back.

Diamond couldn't say how much a new or expanded center might cost or how it would be financed, but noted that "dollars and cents are a key issue."
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This is an interesting project that will be critical in bringing out-of-town visitors into downtown. Something needs to be done soon, considering that even Lakeland's (where I just moved from) Convention Center is even bigger than Jacksonville's. Personally, I think the best option would be to move the convention center to another downtown site, maybe Riverside Drive or the giant parking lot next to the Adam's Mark Hotel and then convert Prime Osborne into a regional transportation center and encourage high density mixed use developments on the vacant lots surrounding it. Although whatever happens, the convention center should be located adjacent to a skyway station to allow guest to easily get around downtown without the need of a car or the hassles of finding a parking space.

JFDinJax · January 6th, 2004, 04:40 PM

^I don't like the sound of relocating the convention center if it "needs" to be 10-15 acres. That's 3-5 Northbank-sized blocks! Convention centers usually create a big void in street-level activity, so I would much rather see it built on the Southbank, which, to me, is less of a pedestrian-oriented part of the CBD and more transit-oriented (connected to the dominant Northbank via Skyway, river taxi, bridges). And although the idea of converting the Prime Osborn back into a transportation hub sounded really nice, keeping the convention center where it is might be the best option. It already has plenty of room to expand, and it has the Skyway link. It would also be nice to see a highrise hotel built in LaVilla.

I wish they would specify what sites they're considering.

Lakelander · January 6th, 2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

The downtown sites need to be 10 to 15 acres on the Northbank or Southbank, either near a minimum 500-room hotel or a site that can support one, and preferably on the riverfront.

Interesting observation "10 to 15 acres near the river." In that case there are only one site that come to mind. It is the Radisson Hotel site on the southbank. There's already been talk of the Radisson possibly tearing down their building and constructing a new one on the site after the super bowl. A new vertical hotel and a riverfront convention center, consuming the mass surface parking lots on the site could be a unique possibility. That along with San Marco Place, St. Johns Center and the proposed Southbank development would make that area quite walkable.

Expanding the existing site is the cheapest and most likely, practical, since they already own the land, but I guess a part of me would like to see La Villa become a dense pedestrian oriented residential area again, adjacent to downtown as well as the terminal, being open to the public on a regular basis and living out its original use. Maybe thats why I favor a new site. It should be interesting to see what they come up with.

Captain Obvious · January 8th, 2004, 06:32 AM

Developers announce negotiations for new downtown hotel

A Westin Hotel or a condominium tower could be in store for a piece of property across the street from the Jacksonville Landing, according to officials at Capital Partners, an Orlando-based commercial real estate company.

Capital Partners is in negotiations to buy the property along with the Humana building sometime in February, said Jim Heistand, a partner at Capital Partners with an office in Jacksonville.

Heistand said the company is negotiating with Westin officials to build a 12-story, 197-room hotel, and two South Florida developers who each want to build a condo tower on the property.

Heistand said Capital Partners will decide in March which of the three developers it will strike a deal with to redevelop the property that has been a vacant surface parking lot.

Read more about the proposal in Thursday's Times-Union.

-------------------------------------

I am very excited about this particular proposal. Although a 12 story hotel is rather small for the location (even by Jax standards), it still seems like a project size that would complement the area. Anything to replace that pointless surface lot!

That being said, I'm probably pulling more for a condo developer. Downtown is already overloaded with hotel space, yet it still lacks residential. Plus, i suspect that most condo developers would build higher than 12 floors on such a site, to ensure river views.

Lakelander · January 8th, 2004, 03:06 PM

This is great news to wake up too, I was just down there the other day, wondering why that block hasn't developed yet. I also like the idea of condos or apartments being there instead of a Westin Hotel. Mainly, because downtown already has several hotels and the next large hotel, should be built adjacent to the convention center.

brickell · January 8th, 2004, 07:37 PM

Concernening the sports venues:

Are there tennants for the Baseball grounds and Arena?

Will these be minor league franchises or college?

Are they publicy financed?

How big are they?

Jax must be rolling in the dough if they're able to build all of these public buildings.

Do they want the Marlins? We can't afford them.

SkyDiveJunkee · January 8th, 2004, 07:45 PM

Miami can't afford the Marlins?

Lakelander · January 8th, 2004, 08:02 PM

originally posted by Brickell

Quote:

Concernening the sports venues:

Are there tennants for the Baseball grounds and Arena?

Will these be minor league franchises or college?

Are they publicy financed?

How big are they?

Jax must be rolling in the dough if they're able to build all of these public buildings.

Do they want the Marlins? We can't afford them.

The Jacksonville Suns, a minor league baseball team, play in the new ballbark, while the 16,000 seat arena was primarily constructed to allow the city to compete for large concerts and sporting events, like NCAA championship games. The Arena, ballpark, library, & courthouse are all publically funded through the "Better Jacksonville Plan."

The best hope for the Marlins staying in Florida is the Miami area. Jacksonville doesn't have the metro population or facilities to support a MLB team.

brickell · January 9th, 2004, 12:18 AM

I was being a little sarcastic about the Marlins. I'm always weary of public financed stadiums/arenas/etc. Jax sounds like they generally have their heads on straight though. I was afraid they were going to try to lure a NBA or Hockey team. That almost always ends in failure. It's amazing how fast these arenas get old and out of date as well.

Jacksonville is looking good.

Sunstorm · January 9th, 2004, 12:46 AM

I really like the design of the new ballpark and arena. It "fits" Jax. The library design is ok, but of the 3 final designs for the library, the one I liked least of the 3 finalists was the one that got chosen.

JFDinJax · January 9th, 2004, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brickell

I was being a little sarcastic about the Marlins. I'm always weary of public financed stadiums/arenas/etc. Jax sounds like they generally have their heads on straight though. I was afraid they were going to try to lure a NBA or Hockey team. That almost always ends in failure. It's amazing how fast these arenas get old and out of date as well.

Jacksonville is looking good.

The new Arena (Veterans Memorial Arena) replaced the small & outdated Coliseum, which was built in the early '60s. The ballpark replaced Wolfson Park, which was the most outdated ballpark used by a minor league team. It was built in 1954. So both facilities were from a time when Jacksonville had less than half its current metro population, and it was only a matter of time before they were replaced, as the old Gator Bowl was in the early '90s.

The Jacksonville Barracudas, an ACHL hockey team, currently play at the Arena.

Sunstorm... there were 4 final library designs. Did you seriously like Stern's the least? I thought Graves' was bad, EVEN for Graves (I don't like his work), and the Modernist one would have failed completely. It was nothing spectacular, so it wouldn't have been acclaimed architecturally, and the public would have hated it worse than the Haydon Burns library. Truthfully, I was disappointed with all 4 final designs. Arquitectonica didn't make the cut, but I would love to see what they, and others, had in mind before the 4 finalists were chosen.

Graves -- does it get any worse? Graves is stuck in the 80s. :P

Pfeiffer -- I wouldn't have minded this one, if they toned down the colors.

Vitetta -- Some people actually criticised the city for not favoring this 'progressive' box. Sorry, but this kind of stuff has been tried for nearly a century, and by and large it's a failure. There have been movements since the 70s to try and break away from such stark modernism. It goes along with the urban renewal of the 60s: it doesn't work -- it's not what people want. This may have looked stunning and modern in the 1950s, but today, it's about as repulsive as a parking garage, and largely regarded as such. On the bright side, it would have made a perfect canvas for murals or graffiti art. :P Well, to give it credit, the interior sounded interesting. But why couldn't the exterior have been, as well?

Stern -- The lesser of the four evils, IMO. I don't particularly like architecture that imitates the past, unless it mimics old styles well enough that it's difficult to tell when it was built (this isn't -- it's clearly new, yet tries to be old). However, I think the general (Jacksonville) public would more willingly accept this.

However, and although this is a little off-topic, I'm beginning to liken this sort of conservative classicism to the same classicism of the recent past: 1700s, 1800s, and early 1900s. For example, the bank pictured below is no parthenon. It's classical revival.

I think classicism will never fully die, and I'm beginning to see less wrong with imitating past styles with a modern twist. Neo-classical buildings like Jax's new library, which can be found all over the place these days, are similar to the Greek Revival movement of the 1830s, Gothic Revival, etc. It's just that, after so many years of Modernism, post-Modernism, architects that reflect the past are accused of not looking toward the future. But isn't that exactly what they're doing? They're architects! They design buildings for people, for a use... in the FUTURE.

Anyhow...

[/rant]

Lakelander · January 9th, 2004, 04:51 AM

I've never seen the other proposals, until now. I must say that this one impresses me the most, with the winning design coming in second. I still wish, the Rhodes Building could have been incorporated the library project. I wonder what's going to happen with the old Haydon Burns Library? BTW, Does anyone have pics from the courthouse competition?

JFDinJax · January 9th, 2004, 07:45 PM

^I agree about the Rhodes. It didn't take up much room! If they had just tacked on another floor to the library, they could have built around it, and probably STILL have more square footage. Delaney was a good mayor, but he seemed to have some misconceptions about multi-story buildings. Sure, I can see the advantage of having large floorplates, and Jacksonville's blocks are relatively small, but I think a compromise could have been struck: smaller floorplates PLUS historic preservation. In order to have larger floorplates, and in order to build the Better Jax projects in certain places, rather than on completely empty blocks, he sacrificed preservation.

Here are the four courthouse finalists:

Spillis Candela DMJM with Porphyrios Associates
665,200 sq ft

notice that this one is actually a block north of the others, which may have saved the old Southern Bell building, although the city seemed bent on using that block for future expansion no matter what.

Rink Reynolds Diamond Fisher Wilson
704,510 sq ft

I didn't like this one at all.

KBJ Architects, Inc.
695,267 sq ft

This was my favorite. KBJ has designed much of the downtown skyline, since the 1950s, and I think they really know the city well. Their design seemed more cohesive than Cannon's, to me.

Cannon Design
734,682 sq ft

The dome, columns and capitals are a nice idea -- very governmental -- but the dome isn't prominent enough. From the east, it seems like you'd have to be a distance away to see it peak completely over the roof (the pic above shows it from the northwest, and not even completely from ground-level, yet it's not fully visible!). As wide as the building is (thanks to Delaney's apparent fear of heights :P), it needs a, higher dome, perhaps more stretched (like the US Capitol) than a perfect hemisphere, and raised higher off the roof. Plus, I don't like the way the window frames portrude out from the building, but maybe I'll be more impressed once it's built.

It looks nicely proportioned in the elevation, but it would only work if the building wasn't as deep as it is -- it's even deeper than it is wide!

See, it would be better centered over the main rectangle of the building, toward the front here:

Whoa, I got on another rant again! Sorry about that.

To Delaney and his staff's credit, reusing the old federal courthouse was a great idea, considering that it will remain (part of) a courthouse. That's pretty much the most important building built in J'ville in the 1930s, and for it to have a use in mind right after it's use was replaced by the new federal courthouse, is just great!

Sunstorm · January 9th, 2004, 09:52 PM

Lakelander, I agree with you that the best library design was the one proposed by Pfeiffer. That was the one that I wanted, but Delaney chose the one by Stern (which I'm starting to like more). The Stern's design is a good fit for Jax, with its more approachable and traditional design. At the time, I liked the Vitetta design. But after seeing the pic you posted of it, I don't care so much for it now (too boxy and cold). I don't like the Graves design, and I barely remember it. I think it was eliminated as a finalist before any of the others.

When it comes to the courthouse design, KBJ was clearly the winner and should've been the one chosen.

Sunstorm · January 9th, 2004, 09:59 PM

Also, there has been talk of renovating Hayden Burns and converting it into residential units. However, a lot of people hate that building and would love to see it torn down.

Personally, it'd be cool to see it turned to residential. A "classic" example of '60s architecture preserved.

Lakelander · January 9th, 2004, 11:45 PM

The KBJ design did look interesting. From the look of these four, I would have chosen it, over the others. I like the location of the open park space in front of the new and old courthouses shown in KBJ's model. I would also like to view Cannon Design's full site model, instead of the main courthouse. I can't really get a feel on how the entire (7 block) project will be laid out and developed.

SkyDiveJunkee · January 13th, 2004, 07:21 AM

The KBJ courthouse would have looked very imposing, I love Gothic Revival, and as it being a courthouse i'm assuming the materials wont be cheap..it would have aged nicely. I think I even see flying buttresses on the leftmost building in the picture. That would have been cool!!! The only other place I can think of that has flying buttresses in the US is the Trumbull dorm at Yale.

As for the one chosen, its a classic design, I just hope the dome is proportional.

January 5th, 2004, 04:27 PM	#21
Lakelander Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jacksonville/ Lakeland, FL Posts: 2,253 Likes (Received): 7	Library bridge creates chasm Mayor to join debate on building span 5 January 04 By MATT GALNOR The Times-Union Mayor John Peyton is expected to meet this week with downtown advocates concerned about a pedestrian bridge connected to the new main library. Downtown business leaders want to state their case and say the city should encourage people to walk downtown, not take them off the streets with a bridge. But the Jacksonville Library Board voted in November to recommend building the $250,000 bridge to connect the $95 million library with the adjacent 600-space parking garage. The board wants to make the library as accessible as possible for people with disabilities, the elderly and parents who may be bringing small children into the library, library spokeswoman Stacie Bucher said. "They want to make it as convenient as possible for the customers," Bucher said. The library and garage are part of the $2.2 billion Better Jacksonville Plan, which voters approved in 2000 and which also includes other public buildings, road improvements and land preservation. Former Mayor John Delaney didn't want the bridge, especially because the first level of the parking garage will have retail shops. Peyton still is weighing both sides before making a decision, spokeswoman Susan Wiles said. City Councilwoman Suzanne Jenkins said the city has worked too hard to get shops and restaurants to help create a vibrant downtown. "For a city agency to pull people off the street flies in the face of what we've been doing," Jenkins said. Downtown needs all the help it can get to bring people into the urban environment, said Jane Craven, president and chief executive of the Jacksonville Museum of Modern Art. Jacksonville doesn't have extremely cold weather that would require people to stay inside, and people won't be getting the full downtown experience if all they see is a parking garage and the library, Craven said. Downtown Vision Inc., a non-profit organization that advocates for downtown, won't take a position on any specific project but is working to get as many people on the streets as possible, Marketing Director Lyn Briggs said. "We're all about creating a pedestrian environment downtown, and as far as taking people off the street for whatever reason, we'd like to work together to find a solution to that," Briggs said. But those who support the bridge say it can help make the library a gateway to downtown. An easily accessible library would help, not hurt, downtown businesses, said Charlotte Temple, advocacy director for The Arc Jacksonville, a non-profit agency that serves people with developmental disabilities. The library could be the main draw to come downtown, especially if people know there's a place to park and can get into the library safely, said Temple, one of several people who lobbied the library board for the bridge late last year. Once people are downtown, they may check out the museum and some restaurants, Temple said. If the bridge isn't there and people need to walk 1 1/2 blocks to get to the library, they may skip downtown and just go to a branch library in the suburbs, Temple said. The library is expected to open at the end of the year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ IMO, this pedestrian bridge is a bad idea. There are other ways to make it easy for people to get across Duval St., like putting in a landscape pedestrian crossing for example. It would not only put more people on the street, but also save the city some money. People will come to a library this massive regardless of whether there's a pedestrian bridge or not. Last edited by Lakelander; January 6th, 2004 at 03:01 PM.

January 6th, 2004, 04:40 PM	#25
JFDinJax Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Florida's First Coast Posts: 32 Likes (Received): 0	^I don't like the sound of relocating the convention center if it "needs" to be 10-15 acres. That's 3-5 Northbank-sized blocks! Convention centers usually create a big void in street-level activity, so I would much rather see it built on the Southbank, which, to me, is less of a pedestrian-oriented part of the CBD and more transit-oriented (connected to the dominant Northbank via Skyway, river taxi, bridges). And although the idea of converting the Prime Osborn back into a transportation hub sounded really nice, keeping the convention center where it is might be the best option. It already has plenty of room to expand, and it has the Skyway link. It would also be nice to see a highrise hotel built in LaVilla. I wish they would specify what sites they're considering. __________________ "Admiral, I am picking up whale song!"

January 9th, 2004, 07:45 PM	#36
JFDinJax Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Florida's First Coast Posts: 32 Likes (Received): 0	^I agree about the Rhodes. It didn't take up much room! If they had just tacked on another floor to the library, they could have built around it, and probably STILL have more square footage. Delaney was a good mayor, but he seemed to have some misconceptions about multi-story buildings. Sure, I can see the advantage of having large floorplates, and Jacksonville's blocks are relatively small, but I think a compromise could have been struck: smaller floorplates PLUS historic preservation. In order to have larger floorplates, and in order to build the Better Jax projects in certain places, rather than on completely empty blocks, he sacrificed preservation. Here are the four courthouse finalists: Spillis Candela DMJM with Porphyrios Associates 665,200 sq ft notice that this one is actually a block north of the others, which may have saved the old Southern Bell building, although the city seemed bent on using that block for future expansion no matter what. Rink Reynolds Diamond Fisher Wilson 704,510 sq ft I didn't like this one at all. KBJ Architects, Inc. 695,267 sq ft This was my favorite. KBJ has designed much of the downtown skyline, since the 1950s, and I think they really know the city well. Their design seemed more cohesive than Cannon's, to me. Cannon Design 734,682 sq ft The dome, columns and capitals are a nice idea -- very governmental -- but the dome isn't prominent enough. From the east, it seems like you'd have to be a distance away to see it peak completely over the roof (the pic above shows it from the northwest, and not even completely from ground-level, yet it's not fully visible!). As wide as the building is (thanks to Delaney's apparent fear of heights :P), it needs a, higher dome, perhaps more stretched (like the US Capitol) than a perfect hemisphere, and raised higher off the roof. Plus, I don't like the way the window frames portrude out from the building, but maybe I'll be more impressed once it's built. It looks nicely proportioned in the elevation, but it would only work if the building wasn't as deep as it is -- it's even deeper than it is wide! See, it would be better centered over the main rectangle of the building, toward the front here: Whoa, I got on another rant again! Sorry about that. To Delaney and his staff's credit, reusing the old federal courthouse was a great idea, considering that it will remain (part of) a courthouse. That's pretty much the most important building built in J'ville in the 1930s, and for it to have a use in mind right after it's use was replaced by the new federal courthouse, is just great! __________________ "Admiral, I am picking up whale song!"

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January 5th, 2004, 07:00 PM	#23
SkyDiveJunkee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,494 Likes (Received): 10	Hey thanks for the updates...I've never actually been through downtown JAX, it seems fairly dense and those are both great projects.

January 6th, 2004, 03:00 PM	#24
Lakelander Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jacksonville/ Lakeland, FL Posts: 2,253 Likes (Received): 7	Convention center sites under review Tuesday, January 6, 2004 Former Mayor John Delaney, leader of The Better Jacksonville Plan, made it clear that the convention center would be an issue for the next mayor, and convention bureau leader Jack Diamond sounded the call on Monday. He said that his group intends to recommend three to four downtown sites to administration and city leaders within three to four months for a 250,000-square-foot convention center that can be expanded. The downtown sites need to be 10 to 15 acres on the Northbank or Southbank, either near a minimum 500-room hotel or a site that can support one, and preferably on the riverfront. The existing 78,000-square-foot Prime Osborn Convention Center downtown also is among the sites under consideration. "Within three to four months we need to start narrowing down the site selection," Diamond told the Rotary Club of Jacksonville. Diamond, an architect and veteran downtown advocate, is chairman of the Jacksonville and the Beaches Convention & Visitors Bureau. Within a year, he wants to have the facts, figures and financing figured out, and "be ready to go by next fall," after the 2005 Super Bowl. The plans need to be in place to show corporate leaders in town for the game to entice them to book conventions in Jacksonville, he said. "If we don't get our act together, then shame on us," he said. Diamond said the Jacksonville metro area ranks No. 15 in size in the country, but the convention center is No. 205. He said two studies yielded three possibilities regarding the convention center. Left as is, the existing center would generate $532 million over 10 years in the economic impact of money spent by visitors in the area. Another scenario shows that expanding the Prime Osborn and adding a hotel would create a 10-year impact of $1.04 billion to $1.29 billion and at least 1,509 jobs. And a third possibility shows that building a new convention center would generate about $1.2 billion to $2.4 billion in economic impact and at least 1,797 jobs over 10 years. Asked whether Mayor John Peyton, who took office in July, and City Council members were on board, Diamond said he couldn't speak for them, but said his group has spoken "with everybody." He said his group was told to analyze the issue and come back. Diamond couldn't say how much a new or expanded center might cost or how it would be financed, but noted that "dollars and cents are a key issue." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is an interesting project that will be critical in bringing out-of-town visitors into downtown. Something needs to be done soon, considering that even Lakeland's (where I just moved from) Convention Center is even bigger than Jacksonville's. Personally, I think the best option would be to move the convention center to another downtown site, maybe Riverside Drive or the giant parking lot next to the Adam's Mark Hotel and then convert Prime Osborne into a regional transportation center and encourage high density mixed use developments on the vacant lots surrounding it. Although whatever happens, the convention center should be located adjacent to a skyway station to allow guest to easily get around downtown without the need of a car or the hassles of finding a parking space.

January 8th, 2004, 06:32 AM	#27
Captain Obvious Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 118 Likes (Received): 0	Developers announce negotiations for new downtown hotel A Westin Hotel or a condominium tower could be in store for a piece of property across the street from the Jacksonville Landing, according to officials at Capital Partners, an Orlando-based commercial real estate company. Capital Partners is in negotiations to buy the property along with the Humana building sometime in February, said Jim Heistand, a partner at Capital Partners with an office in Jacksonville. Heistand said the company is negotiating with Westin officials to build a 12-story, 197-room hotel, and two South Florida developers who each want to build a condo tower on the property. Heistand said Capital Partners will decide in March which of the three developers it will strike a deal with to redevelop the property that has been a vacant surface parking lot. Read more about the proposal in Thursday's Times-Union. ------------------------------------- I am very excited about this particular proposal. Although a 12 story hotel is rather small for the location (even by Jax standards), it still seems like a project size that would complement the area. Anything to replace that pointless surface lot! That being said, I'm probably pulling more for a condo developer. Downtown is already overloaded with hotel space, yet it still lacks residential. Plus, i suspect that most condo developers would build higher than 12 floors on such a site, to ensure river views.

January 8th, 2004, 03:06 PM	#28
Lakelander Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jacksonville/ Lakeland, FL Posts: 2,253 Likes (Received): 7	This is great news to wake up too, I was just down there the other day, wondering why that block hasn't developed yet. I also like the idea of condos or apartments being there instead of a Westin Hotel. Mainly, because downtown already has several hotels and the next large hotel, should be built adjacent to the convention center.

January 8th, 2004, 07:37 PM	#29
brickell Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: miami Posts: 1,650 Likes (Received): 7	Concernening the sports venues: Are there tennants for the Baseball grounds and Arena? Will these be minor league franchises or college? Are they publicy financed? How big are they? Jax must be rolling in the dough if they're able to build all of these public buildings. Do they want the Marlins? We can't afford them.

January 8th, 2004, 07:45 PM	#30
SkyDiveJunkee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,494 Likes (Received): 10	Miami can't afford the Marlins?

January 9th, 2004, 12:18 AM	#32
brickell Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: miami Posts: 1,650 Likes (Received): 7	I was being a little sarcastic about the Marlins. I'm always weary of public financed stadiums/arenas/etc. Jax sounds like they generally have their heads on straight though. I was afraid they were going to try to lure a NBA or Hockey team. That almost always ends in failure. It's amazing how fast these arenas get old and out of date as well. Jacksonville is looking good.

January 9th, 2004, 12:46 AM	#33
Sunstorm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 328 Likes (Received): 1	I really like the design of the new ballpark and arena. It "fits" Jax. The library design is ok, but of the 3 final designs for the library, the one I liked least of the 3 finalists was the one that got chosen.

January 9th, 2004, 04:51 AM	#35
Lakelander Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jacksonville/ Lakeland, FL Posts: 2,253 Likes (Received): 7	I've never seen the other proposals, until now. I must say that this one impresses me the most, with the winning design coming in second. I still wish, the Rhodes Building could have been incorporated the library project. I wonder what's going to happen with the old Haydon Burns Library? BTW, Does anyone have pics from the courthouse competition?

January 9th, 2004, 09:52 PM	#37
Sunstorm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 328 Likes (Received): 1	Lakelander, I agree with you that the best library design was the one proposed by Pfeiffer. That was the one that I wanted, but Delaney chose the one by Stern (which I'm starting to like more). The Stern's design is a good fit for Jax, with its more approachable and traditional design. At the time, I liked the Vitetta design. But after seeing the pic you posted of it, I don't care so much for it now (too boxy and cold). I don't like the Graves design, and I barely remember it. I think it was eliminated as a finalist before any of the others. When it comes to the courthouse design, KBJ was clearly the winner and should've been the one chosen.

January 9th, 2004, 09:59 PM	#38
Sunstorm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 328 Likes (Received): 1	Also, there has been talk of renovating Hayden Burns and converting it into residential units. However, a lot of people hate that building and would love to see it torn down. Personally, it'd be cool to see it turned to residential. A "classic" example of '60s architecture preserved.

January 9th, 2004, 11:45 PM	#39
Lakelander Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jacksonville/ Lakeland, FL Posts: 2,253 Likes (Received): 7	The KBJ design did look interesting. From the look of these four, I would have chosen it, over the others. I like the location of the open park space in front of the new and old courthouses shown in KBJ's model. I would also like to view Cannon Design's full site model, instead of the main courthouse. I can't really get a feel on how the entire (7 block) project will be laid out and developed.

January 13th, 2004, 07:21 AM	#40
SkyDiveJunkee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,494 Likes (Received): 10	The KBJ courthouse would have looked very imposing, I love Gothic Revival, and as it being a courthouse i'm assuming the materials wont be cheap..it would have aged nicely. I think I even see flying buttresses on the leftmost building in the picture. That would have been cool!!! The only other place I can think of that has flying buttresses in the US is the Trumbull dorm at Yale. As for the one chosen, its a classic design, I just hope the dome is proportional.