Boris Johnson: New London Airport Proposal

[capslock]

If it were me I would combine a new airport in the centre of the Thames estuary with a new flood defence barrage (a £ multi-billion need anyway) and tidal power generation (sustainable power generation also needed anyway) and as has been pointed out up thread, a new container port (again £s development currently proposed anyway).

You could also further offset the cost of this by developing a new city based on sustainable principles on the site of the existing Heathrow (including surrounding land currently used by supporting industries connected to the airport) to make best use of the existing excellent transport connections and solve all of South East England's housing shortage for the next 50 years in one hit.

I think they're not thinking big enough - that's the real problem.

Right - that's it, I'm going to work up my scheme and have a word with Boris.

[Mwmbwls]

Originally Posted by capslock

If it were me I would combine a new airport in the centre of the Thames estuary with a new flood defence barrage (a £ multi-billion need anyway) and tidal power generation (sustainable power generation also needed anyway) and as has been pointed out up thread, a new container port (again £s development currently proposed anyway).

You could also further offset the cost of this by developing a new city based on sustainable principles on the site of the existing Heathrow (including surrounding land currently used by supporting industries connected to the airport) to make best use of the existing excellent transport connections and solve all of South East England's housing shortage for the next 50 years in one hit.

I think they're not thinking big enough - that's the real problem.

Right - that's it, I'm going to work up my scheme and have a word with Boris.

Cracking thinking.

You already have an open invitation. The following is an extract from the "Way to Go" precursor to a Transport Strategy Document.
Quote
We all know that Heathrow is in the wrong place, and no Mayor could accept the greatly increased noise and pollution resulting from a third runway. That is why I have asked GLA and TfL officials to produce an initial report into an island airport in the Thames estuary; and if they think it could work, then I will commission a full-blown feasibility study into an idea already gaining strong support in Parliament and among the public.
We are considering a tunnel under Park Lane, releasing land for development and green space, which could be funded from the development it produces.
We are continuing to work on electric vehicles as well as hydrogen and hybrid vehicles, because I am absolutely determined that London should be in the forefront of the green revolution, in both the development and application of new technology.
Above all there is the urgent and unmissable deadline of the Olympics, with all their potential to drive change in London’s transport and infrastructure. There is the Woolwich Arsenal extension of the DLR, which will open next January, the other DLR extensions, and the improvements to the North London Line. But there is so much more that could be done.
Think how magical it would be to pick up a boat from central London, and take a day trip downriver to see the Games at Stratford. Now is the moment to use the Games at last to expand river transport, to coordinate the wharves, to see what we can do to find the right fuel-efficient vessels.
When the Games come to London, the centre of town will be transformed into a festival zone. The reality is that cars will be a rarity in that small central area – and for some people that will be a joy that they might like to preserve. What about you?
Transport in London is a vast mosaic of competing interests, which must be assembled with the utmost skill. But many of those pieces are still up in the air, and the concrete has yet to set.
Now is the moment to show us your preferred move.
The next steps
This document is a precursor to the Mayor’s Transport Strategy, and although it does not form part of the formal process of consulting on the Strategy, your views and comments on these issues and ideas are invited in order to inform the forthcoming strategy. Your comments on this document will be considered by the Mayor prior to drafting the Transport Strategy. The Mayor’s Transport Strategy will be issued in draft form according to the following proposed timetable:
Assembly and functional bodies consultation Spring 2009
Public consultation Summer 2009
Publication Winter 2009
This ‘direction of travel’ document is not intended to cover all of the transport matters that will be covered in the formal consultation, and the fact that something is not mentioned here does not mean that it is not important nor that it will be excluded from the Transport Strategy.
Comments on this document
We would like to receive your views on the issues raised in this document. In order to help you structure your response we have set out below some key questions. Please would you let us have your comments by Friday 16 January 2009.
Key questions :
Do you generally support our principles for developing policy?
If not what other principles should apply?
Have we identified the key challenges facing transport in London?
If not what other issues should we be considering.
We have emphasised an approach to encourage more people to
walk and cycle. Do you agree with this?
Are there things you think the Mayor should do to improve transport
in London which are not identified here?
Please send your comments to:
By post:
Way to Go! Post Point 22, FREEPOST LON15799, City Hall,
The Queen’s Walk, London SE1 2BR
By email: waytogo@london.gov.uk

I think your approach with solutions both for a new airport and reuse of the existing Heathrow site should definitely be on Boris' agenda.

[OperateOnMe]

Originally Posted by Bob

I think London has to wake up to the fact that there is no suitable site for a single hub airport in the South East and start planning appropriately. Just as the Swiss don't host the land speed record attempts and the Saharans don't hold igloo building competitions, London can't have a 3 or even 4 runway hub airport.

Options could be 3, 2 runway airports hosting the different aliances. Or bigger planes operating less frequent services. Capacity taken by rail. The solutions aren't perfect and please don't lecture me why they aren't - I know they aren't, and why. The fact is that expansion at Heathrow is not an option, nor is an estuary airport. Let's not get caught out AGAIN, and plan for the future with those two facts as a given.

well said

[aquablue]

I agree. I will add the following.

Stansted expansion to 2 or 3 runways combined with current LHR. Airlines allocated by alliance to each airport. Medium speed train link to heathrow (elevated tracks over m25 - nothing special like maglev required). Non stop service between airports. Special secure transfer trains allowing passengers to transfer from one international flight to another at different airports without having to go through too many checks at each airport.
Luggage trains designed to trainsfer baggage between two airports and special depots to handle baggage on to the different flights at multiple airports. Seems rather plausible IMO... Of course, an island airport with 4 runways would be the best option. I would not agree with runway 3 at heathrow after seeing the flight paths. It is clear that central London will be overflown by planes joining the approach path, which I feel is ridiculous in regards to security and quality of life. Places like South Ken, Westminster, etc.. will all be overflown.

[wiggleyleeds]

What about something really ambitious.. you know, like london used to be a hundred years ago, at the forefront.

What about a super-airport (the largest in the world) north of the city just past the m25 where there is lots of land and little development. A massive 10 terminal superport.. and a superspeed train line direct into the capital that runs underground, getting there in 15 minutes. Overground high speed rail links could also span up northwards to equally serve the midlands too.

[Scazmattaz]

Might be a slight issue with the density of development North of the M25. Numerous large towns in Hertfordshire - St Albans, Hemel, Hatfield, Welwyn, Hertford, Harlow, Potters Bar and Cheshunt are all within 8km of the M25 and the expansion of Luton Airport has already been causing concern to those in North Hertfordshire. If you're thinking about the Epping Green area its possibly going to be the tightest piece of Greenbelt in the whole country.

I cant see any location other than the proposed Estery location being viable or politically acceptable.

[DarJoLe]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

What about something really ambitious.. you know, like london used to be a hundred years ago, at the forefront.

What about a super-airport (the largest in the world) north of the city just past the m25 where there is lots of land and little development. A massive 10 terminal superport.. and a superspeed train line direct into the capital that runs underground, getting there in 15 minutes. Overground high speed rail links could also span up northwards to equally serve the midlands too.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

[tuten]

Originally Posted by Scazmattaz

Might be a slight issue with the density of development North of the M25. Numerous large towns in Hertfordshire - St Albans, Hemel, Hatfield, Welwyn, Hertford, Harlow, Potters Bar and Cheshunt are all within 8km of the M25 and the expansion of Luton Airport has already been causing concern to those in North Hertfordshire. If you're thinking about the Epping Green area its possibly going to be the tightest piece of Greenbelt in the whole country.

I cant see any location other than the proposed Estery location being viable or politically acceptable.

It would also leave my town wedged between two airports, Im about 2 miles south of Luton airport, and I don't think I'd wanna be 2 miles north of the biggest airport in the world.

[bigbossman]

i'd just expand biggin hill, still in greater london, nowhere near any built up area except biggin hill, only problem is no train near it, but that can be easily fixed with a couple of spurs off main lines through fields!

[Salif]

How about turning Park Lane and Oxford Street into runways and using Harrods as a terminal?

[somersetchris]

http://www.aslef.org.uk/Shared_ASP_F...c08Journal.pdf

Pages 12 and 13

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by Salif

How about turning Park Lane and Oxford Street into runways and using Harrods as a terminal?

shame harrods isn't anywhere near either of those roads!

[Salif]

Originally Posted by bigbossman

shame harrods isn't anywhere near either of those roads!

Terminals are generally quite set back from the runways - saves the glass from being shattered by the air pressure from planes.

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by Salif

Terminals are generally quite set back from the runways - saves the glass from being shattered by the air pressure from planes.

not half a mile to a mile... anyways i dunno why i am arguing about this...

[Salif]

Originally Posted by bigbossman

not half a mile to a mile... anyways i dunno why i am arguing about this...

At some airports it can be (at least it feels like it), ever flown from CDG with your plane having to taxi to one of the outer runways?

[DarJoLe]

Senior Tory sinks Mayor's plan for Boris island airport
Katharine Barney
15.05.09

The Mayor of London's plan for a 'Boris Island' were dealt a blow today as the shadow transport secretary ruled out the idea.

Theresa Villiers said Boris Johnson's idea of building an airport in the Thames Estuary as an alternative to expansion at Heathrow was "not Conservative policy". She also said Mr Johnson was “independent” from the national party.

Mr Johnson wants to build up to six runways on an island in the estuary two miles off Sheerness in Kent. A feasibility study is currently being conducted by Doug Oakervee, chair of the Crossrail project.

But Mrs Villiers said: “It is not the Conservative policy to build an airport in the estuary. Boris is independent of the Conservatives on this issue.”

The split comes after Mr Johnson signalled that he might not stand as Mayor for a second term prompting speculation he still harboured dreams of becoming Prime Minister.

The Standard last month revealed that Mr Johnson might not stand for a second term as Mayor — and would be ready to serve as Prime Minister.

In an interview he said “nothing is excluded”, fuelling speculation that Mr Johnson will use City Hall as a springboard for an attempt to take Downing Street. The move triggered an electrifying rivalry with David Cameron at the top of the Conservative party, with the mayor openly defying the Tory leader by supporting the idea of an “earned amnesty” for illegal immigrants.



The Mayor has also shown his ambition for power beyond City Hall by setting out plans for new academies and calling for Latin and Greek to be reintroduced in the national curriculum.

Local government expert Tony Travers said: “However hard they both say there is no power struggle it's very easy to infer there is. Boris is a very clever and ambitious man and it would be more surprising if he weren't after the job. I can't believe David Cameron will be entirely unaware of the threat

“On this issue Boris is keeping the London voters happy by talking about an airport out in Kent, but it's no so easy for the national party. This is about election politics.”

The Tories share the mayor's view that the Heathrow third runway but support alternative plans for a high-speed rail link from London to Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds, with trains running at up to 190mph.

Mrs Villiers said: “We oppose a third runway at Heathrow. We want to make Heathrow better not bigger. [But] we are not looking at the option of a new airport in the Thames Estuary.”

The Mayor's office does not believe the rail link will be enough and insists there needs to be more aviation provision in the capital.

He is considering factors such as the London Array wind farm which is currently under construction as well as concerns about wildlife.

The Mayor's director of transport policy Kulveer Ranger said: “We accept it's not the policy of the national Tory party but Boris has to looks at what affects London and act in Londoners interests.

“He has said he will not support a third runway so there needs to be an alternative as well as high speed rail links and this is one alternative that is being considered.”

Reader Views
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Give Boris what he wants or else....
He is the best mayor ever this side of the universe.
- Out With Brown, London

[Salif]

If HS2 gets the go-ahead wouldn't it be better to build a new airport on land just North East of Birmingham International?

Could have 3, 4 or 6 runways and have an integrated high speed railway station built into the terminal with perhaps scope for a regional line to serve it aswell.

[Bob]

not close enough to London I'd say.

I don't believe there is a single piece of land in the UK available for such a project.

[Salif]

Would be about 45 minutes away from London with HS2 though.

[Leeds No.1]

Originally Posted by Salif

If HS2 gets the go-ahead wouldn't it be better to build a new airport on land just North East of Birmingham International?

Could have 3, 4 or 6 runways and have an integrated high speed railway station built into the terminal with perhaps scope for a regional line to serve it aswell.

It seems a more sensible option to get on with building the High Speed Rail network so that places like Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, the East Midlands, Bristol and wherever else can grow their airports, with people from the SE using the high speed links to get to them.