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Old November 9th, 2008, 04:36 AM   #21
mhays
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A building has to be complete? What if they simply stopped construction, and decided that its current status was its final form? How would those unenclosed upper floors be any less "building" than a radio mast on top of an office tower?

It's all semantics.
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Old November 10th, 2008, 12:26 AM   #22
Tortonto Tim
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Incomplete buildings can never be considered

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
A building has to be complete? What if they simply stopped construction, and decided that its current status was its final form? How would those unenclosed upper floors be any less "building" than a radio mast on top of an office tower?

It's all semantics.
Well my friend if they stoped building and decided that its current status was its final form it would be fair to asume that they would make the building fit for occupation and thus by definition it would be complete. However if they did this the area that was unclad may not be a suitable material to be left exposed (say you would not normally galvanised steel that is not exposed) and as such it may not be safe to leave it unclad - bits falling of from the "sky" is mighty dangerous. In contrast the CN Tower is fully complete and designed for the height that it is currently erected to. The two are completely different and to suggest otherwise is shortsighted. I know a good optians if you need one.....
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Old November 10th, 2008, 03:28 AM   #23
mhays
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I currently live in a building that isn't complete. It doesn't have occupancy permits for the top few floors, and the rotohammering starts at 7:00 am every day. But is it a building? Of course it is.

I won't use the "poundy" emoticon because I'm not a child.
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Old November 10th, 2008, 10:03 PM   #24
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To me the distintion between building and structure is more important than between finished and unfinished even if the first may have been promoted for the benefit of the Sears Tower in the past. Having floors fit for human habitation is a very different architectural challange to just having a lift and a few services go though them while an unfinished building has to stand up to the same or more chasllanges than a finished one.
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Old November 10th, 2008, 11:08 PM   #25
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Having floors fit for human habitation is a very different architectural challange to just having a lift and a few services go though them while an unfinished building has to stand up to the same or more chasllanges than a finished one.
That is stupid. an unfinished building "site" has to stand up to the same or more challanges than a finished building? Of course it does because it is unfinished! As I said previously if it was designed to be unfinished you might galvanise the metal but it isn't so you would red oxide it instead. This would cause the metal to rust and the building would eventually fall apart. Once you clad it it is weathertight and then at least it starts resembling a building rather than the Eifel Tower.
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Old November 11th, 2008, 07:21 AM   #26
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The poundy emoticon is making me assume you're a teenager with no emotional control, and not to be taken seriously.

But to humor the tantrum-thrower a minute, the point where a building can permanently withstand weather is very different from the point where it's complete by any specific measure. Enclosure isn't the point of completion. Even a dry shell is far beyond an enclosed building.

I'm sure you haven't been to Greece. In Greece, you see countless buildings where the masonry and rebar skeleton has been built and some floors are occupied, but other floors are left with no outer walls, let alone finishes. Most people count these as buildings, though the unfinished floors will not be stable as the rebar would fail if left along for enough years.

I'll repeat. It's semantics.
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Old November 11th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess View Post
Having floors fit for human habitation is a very different architectural challange to just having a lift and a few services go though them while an unfinished building has to stand up to the same or more chasllanges than a finished one.
Well, i half agree with what you are saying. Structures like the CN Tower and the TV tower in Ghaungzhou and the Shanghai Oriental Pearl Tower can be said to be in a slightly different catergory from my opinion. For me the CN Tower is still a very tall structure, but i won't consider it in the same category as the Petronas, Shanghai Financial Centre or the Sears towers. Having said that, any tall strucuture is worth recognising.

By the way, height isn't all that important. I would rather a tower like the Petronas Towers which looks brilliant multifunctional than a mask which may be a lot higher. Its more about what the building looklike and what they bring to the cityscape and to the community as a resource which is most important and should receive the most recognition.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 04:59 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortonto Tim View Post
The Guinness Book of Records counts for nothing? It is recognise for its authority in more than one area and as such I must repudiate such a flagrant dismissive comment. Next you'll be saying, "Its my ball and I am taking it home!" Such an attidude is why there are is so much conflict in this world. Hopefully Obama can sort it out - I wonder what he thinks is the highest building in the world?

What gives the CTBUH the right to dictate what is what - why not consider the opinion of the Tallest Worlds Authority Towers which could be deemed to take presidence.
I'm not denying the reputubility of the Guinness Book of Records - I know that whether its a guy sticking pegs on his face, a dude smashing watermelens with his forehead, or the worlds tallest building, they fully research and authenticate them all. But their interest in any one subject is general in nature - there are other bodies who have an interest in examining the esoteric details.

Even if you don't recognise the authority of the CTBUH, almost any other database which has to make the distinction will list buildings and towers separately (eg Emporis, SSP). And in my experience (of being a 'skyscraper nerd') the vast majority of people with an interest in the topic do as well. I don't think a decision made by the Guinness Book of Records should over rule everything else.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 05:09 AM   #29
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THe CN Tower is recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the World’s Tallest Building at 553.33 m (1,815ft, 5 inches) tall. Why do you say it is not a building?
You know Tortonto Tim, I never actually bothered to verify your claim, but it seems its mostly false. And I also just realised you're a troll who can't even spell the name of your city. But for the record, here is what Wikipedia has to say on the subject (link)

Guinness World Records has called the CN Tower "the world's tallest self-supporting tower" and "the world's tallest free-standing tower". Although Guinness did list this description of the CN Tower under the heading "tallest building" at least once, it has also listed it under "tallest tower", omitting it from its list of "tallest buildings." In 1996, Guinness officially changed the tower's classification to "World's Tallest Building and Freestanding Structure". Today, Guinness state that the CN Tower is the "Tallest Freestanding Tower," because the Petronius Platform oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico is taller at 2,001 feet (609.9 m), yet most of the rig is underwater, earning it the title of tallest free-standing structure in the world. Emporis and the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat both list the CN Tower as the world's tallest free-standing structure on land, and specifically state that the CN Tower is not a true building, thereby awarding the title of world's tallest building to Taipei 101, which is 44 metres (144 ft) shorter than the CN Tower. The tower's official web site, however, unequivocally claims it is the "world's tallest building"
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Old November 18th, 2008, 12:42 AM   #30
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[QUOTE=Oriolus;27966098]You know Tortonto Tim, I never actually bothered to verify your claim, but it seems its mostly false. And I also just realised you're a troll who can't even spell the name of your city. But for the record, here is what Wikipedia has to say on the subject (link)

Oriolus

You asssume that my name is a mispelling of Toronto rather than a nickname? The fact is that the name is a nickname based upon the city and the type of work I do (i.e. Law - have you heard the expression Tort before?).

Wikipedia is a website that anyone can adapt so I am warry of what they say on it.

My reference to the Guinness Book of Records was based upon a copy shown to me which stated that the CN Tower was the world's tallest building - if you refer to the CN Towers own website you will see that it still states this on their website:

http://www.cntower.ca/portal/SmartDefault.aspx?at=897

Are they a troll too?

So your assumption that I am a troll is unfounded - funny enough I have seen people label others with this when they disagreed with the opinions expressed - it makes me might glad that Hilter was defeated otherwise they would have found a way to control our minds by now. The beauty of this big wide world is that we can all see the same but think differently. Or would you prefer that we all agree?
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Old November 18th, 2008, 02:35 AM   #31
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CN Tower is the worlds tallest finished SRUCTURE. Burj Dubai is the tallest unfinished BUILDING (building=inhabitable). But anyways, they are building pretty many megatalls these days, that the CN Tower (no offence intended) might get kicked out pretty soon of the World's Tallest Buildings/Structures club...
But this is only my opinnion and i don't know more than your Average Joe regarding this stuff
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Old November 18th, 2008, 03:24 AM   #32
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Look, no one here in Toronto gives a hoot that Dubai is going to have the tallest tower. The CN Tower was the tallest in the world for over 30 years, and it was great fun back in the 70's, but less important now. It will continue to get its 2 million tourists annually, as I doubt any of them will want to not go up because there is a tower in Dubai that is taller! Dubai is welcome to the crown and I hope they enjoy it!
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Old November 18th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #33
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Look, no one here in Toronto gives a hoot that Dubai is going to have the tallest tower. The CN Tower was the tallest in the world for over 30 years, and it was great fun back in the 70's, but less important now. It will continue to get its 2 million tourists annually, as I doubt any of them will want to not go up because there is a tower in Dubai that is taller! Dubai is welcome to the crown and I hope they enjoy it!
Well said Taller, better. I concur with youwhole heartedly
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