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Old July 22nd, 2011, 01:17 AM   #101
Kanto
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Your making it real hard to look past your comments. Tell me what is a fake roof? The Times Tower was meant to look incomplete at the top. The way the curtain wall extends the way it does.

I still think they should redesign this building.
And that's what I hate on it. One thing is making a building with a spire, everybody can tell the difference between a spire and the building itself. But in the Times building they made it appear as if the building itself was taller than it in reality is. That's why I called it a fake roof
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 02:56 AM   #102
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It's to hide mechanical equipment Kanto, and a lot of skyscrapers have 'fake roofs,' that don't have mechanical space within the building themselves, these are typically at the top few floors. 3 WTC will have a fake roof, 4 WTC will have one as well, almost every recently built skyscraper has one.

Or we could have it your way and have a beautiful skyscraper like NY Times Tower, and then a bunch of massive air conditioning units plopped on top with other equipment. Look at this photo of midtown Manhattan, of the MODERN skyscrapers, I can't find a single one that doesn't have one.

Can we please keep this thread on topic?
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 04:24 AM   #103
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Are they going to upgrade the PABT , or are they going to leave it the mess it is?
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 11:02 AM   #104
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I hope for an upgrade, cuz it looks like they didnt renovated it in ages.

btw, will this tower rise infront of the NYTT or 11 TS bldg.?
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 11:46 AM   #105
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If they're smaller, I don't really mind. But I don't like if they make them as big as in the case of the Times building.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 02:44 PM   #106
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Quote:
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I hope for an upgrade, cuz it looks like they didnt renovated it in ages.

btw, will this tower rise infront of the NYTT or 11 TS bldg.?
This tower is directly to the west of 11 TS. It's on the west corner of 42nd and 8th, whereas 11 TS is on the east side of 8th Ave at 42nd st.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 02:53 PM   #107
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TY i always thought it is directly infront of the NYTT. So it'll block 11TS and NYTT from many angles from Jersey :-(
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:04 PM   #108
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It will block 11TS -- not NYT. I don't know if 11 TS is all that visibible from NYJ anyway, as it's only around 40 stories.

In this arial photo from the Hudson, 11 TS is not really discernable.

image hosted on flickr

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Old July 22nd, 2011, 06:11 PM   #109
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With Spire it could reach almost the height of the Times Tower.
There's the joke of the millenium. "Let's see which building can get the longer pole on top!" NYTT is the puniest "supertall" in existence.

This building looks pretty fat, ugly, and prominent to me. The Pan-Am/Metlife tower for the 21st century!
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 02:37 AM   #110
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There's the joke of the millenium. "Let's see which building can get the longer pole on top!" NYTT is the puniest "supertall" in existence.

This building looks pretty fat, ugly, and prominent to me. The Pan-Am/Metlife tower for the 21st century!
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Old July 24th, 2011, 12:15 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
There's the joke of the millenium. "Let's see which building can get the longer pole on top!" NYTT is the puniest "supertall" in existence.

This building looks pretty fat, ugly, and prominent to me. The Pan-Am/Metlife tower for the 21st century!
I 1000% agree with you. A 227m building shouldn't be called a supertall just because of a thin steel pole That's why I am a huge proponent of roof height measurement
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Old July 24th, 2011, 01:05 AM   #112
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I think the only time an antenna should be built is for communication, not to get a height advantage sleazily. Or for attention either.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 01:06 AM   #113
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We get it you hate spires. Your never going to change the rule so get over it.

Robert that's a sick picture of midtown, I count 4 superstalls. I know alot of you don't like the sound of that but those are the breaks.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 01:37 AM   #114
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Looks amazing, definitely will complement NYTT.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #115
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Quote:
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We get it you hate spires. Your never going to change the rule so get over it.
I don't hate spires. I just hate that they "count", especially the ones that really have no flow with the building and it's almost obvious that they are just for the extra height. Someday, when I do get the rule changed, I will come back here and shove this post in your face

Also, to SWFC fan, I am entitled to my opinion that this building is disgustingly ugly. Everybody can't like everything
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Old July 24th, 2011, 11:43 PM   #116
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To bad I was talking to Kanto and not you. But If you work together, you might be able to change the scope of skyscraper developement. You'll also change over 100 years of skyscraper history. I got tell you, I just don't see that happen. Anyway can somebody tell me, where the spire from this building came from? I'm pretty much sure, it wasn't there before.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 02:42 PM   #117
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I wonder what the story is. I thought that Vornado had an absolute right to build if it did so within the contract period. Moreover, it has financing from China, and it's willing to build on spec.

Does anyone have a WSJ subscription?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLE_Video_Top



NY REAL ESTATE COMMERCIALAUGUST 4, 2011.Tower Deal Is Teetering
BY ELIOT BROWN AND ANDREW GROSSMAN

As a deadline nears, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and developer Vornado Realty Trust remain far apart over the terms of a deal to build an office tower atop the Port Authority bus terminal, said people familiar with the matter.

The plan to build a tower rising about 40 stories over the terminal has been on the drawing board for more than a dozen years, with momentum ebbing and flowing with the economy's cycles. A tentative deal struck in 2007 between the Port Authority and a team led by Vornado was put on ice during the ...

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Old August 4th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #118
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WSJ

Quote:
NY REAL ESTATE COMMERCIAL AUGUST 4, 2011.
Tower Deal Is Teetering

By ELIOT BROWN And ANDREW GROSSMAN
As a deadline nears, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and developer Vornado Realty Trust remain far apart over the terms of a deal to build an office tower atop the Port Authority bus terminal, said people familiar with the matter.


Port Authority NY/NJ
A rendering of the planned tower atop the Port Authority Bus Terminal.

The plan to build a tower rising about 40 stories over the terminal has been on the drawing board for more than a dozen years, with momentum ebbing and flowing with the economy's cycles. A tentative deal struck in 2007 between the Port Authority and a team led by Vornado was put on ice during the economic downturn.

Now Vornado stands to lose its designation as the tower's developer if a deal isn't struck by Sunday, based on the terms of an earlier agreement. It is possible the two sides could also extend the deal, as they have done before.

The 2007 deal called for the Vornado team to pay about $500 million over a long-term lease. In the latest round of negotiations, Vornado has been offering less money than the agency has been seeking, people familiar with the discussions said.

The Port Authority is hoping a final pact would provide the agency hundreds of millions of dollars that it would use to renovate and upgrade the bus terminal, the people said. "We continue to be in active discussions with them," said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the Port Authority.

Planners and Port Authority officials have long dreamed of capping the hulking terminal near Times Square with a glimmering office tower. Over the years, new towers sprouted nearby, changing the image of the once-squalid area and encouraging planners to forge ahead.

Vornado and its partner, Ruben Cos., have effectively had an option on the terminal since they first won the rights to develop it in 1999. But the project has been stuck in the planning stage. Its current plan calls for a 1.3-million-square-foot tower designed by Pritzker Prize-winner Richard Rogers.

The Vornado plan first got sidelined by an economic downturn in 2001. It came back to life toward the end of the last real-estate cycle. But by the time the Vornado team renegotiated its terms with the Port Authority in late 2007, the economy was already beginning to falter.

With the city adding jobs at a faster rate than the rest of the U.S. economy, demand for office space has been slowly rising. But vacancy is well above the low levels it hit in the boom years.

Given the high cost of construction in New York and a lack of clear demand for the new space, a new tower could be a risky bet without a major tenant. New office towers are already rising elsewhere in Manhattan, including at the World Trade Center. The most recent office building to be completed, 11 Times Square, on the other side of Eighth Avenue from the bus terminal, sits more than half vacant after opening in January.

Vornado has been showing detailed plans for the rectangular glass tower to potential tenants, according to people familiar with the matter. Its unusual plan calls for the building's elevators to be on its exterior. That would allow for large, open floors that large financial services companies like.

The firm also has been in discussions with additional investors. Billionaire Chinese real estate investor Zhang Xin is considering investing in the project, she said in a May interview. Ms. Zhang, chief executive of the large Chinese commercial property developer Soho China Ltd., said the potential investment would be separate from Soho China's business.

"It's me personally and privately looking at opportunities," she said.

---
So Vornado was up against a tight deadline for Port Authority approval of their tower. Financing issues once again make their proposal iffy at best. If Vornado fails, the PA will seek another developer for those air rights. The Terminal Tower is not dead.
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Old August 5th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #119
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Actually, Vornado has financing from the Chinese investor. The developer has the effrontery to seek to pay the cash-strapped Port Authority less thanh the agreed-to $500m.
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Old August 6th, 2011, 05:48 AM   #120
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Vornado didn't have the financing to meet the Port Authority's demands. That's why they made the low ball offer and that's why the deal is in jeopardy. Otherwise the PA would have simply taken that offer. Vornado is seeking a loan on a tower in San Francisco. If that goes through, they may bring something more to the table than some Chinese investor.
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