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Old January 28th, 2012, 10:24 AM   #2981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
No, you said that Larry cared only about the money (speculation anyone?)....which means he designed these towers shorter to save cash, but of course, that is pure BS speculation on your part, as you don't know what the finances look like and how much power Larry had to design a taller tower. Perhaps that was impossible and Larry had no choice due to financial constraints and lenders, etc.

Really, why are you so against Larry? Without him we might have some other developer who put up some garbage building 10x worse than these.
I agree that what Larry is putting up is not bad, however it could have been so much better. This site had nearly limitless potential and something not bad just isn't good enough in this case in my opinion

Btw, if my eyes don't fool me I can see floor beams are already in place for the top floor. A height jump might happen soon
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Old January 28th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #2982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
I agree that what Larry is putting up is not bad, however it could have been so much better. This site had nearly limitless potential and something not bad just isn't good enough in this case in my opinion

Btw, if my eyes don't fool me I can see floor beams are already in place for the top floor. A height jump might happen soon
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Old January 28th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #2983
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Btw, if my eyes don't fool me I can see floor beams are already in place for the top floor. A height jump might happen soon
Really? How can you tell? 4 WTC is out of the KPI TV webcam now..
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Old January 28th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #2984
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WTCProgress on Twitter
From this pic that Otie has posted
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Old January 28th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #2985
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Great update spot on 1WTC.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #2986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
I agree that what Larry is putting up is not bad, however it could have been so much better. This site had nearly limitless potential and something not bad just isn't good enough in this case in my opinion

Btw, if my eyes don't fool me I can see floor beams are already in place for the top floor. A height jump might happen soon
I disagree, this site absolutely did not have limitless potential IMO, because of the political and financial issues involved here. I would have liked the foster towers, but there was always going to be a problem with building here due to all the 'cooks' involved so to speak. To many people had to be satisfied, thus we end up with a compromise. There was no way this was a plot where some Dubai fantasy could have played out. Remember, they had to attract tenants, and I'm not sure an extremely tall flamboyant tower would have been good PR back in the years following 9/11, an era where fear reigned supreme practically neutering any grandiose ambitions for revolutionary design. Factor in the constant that this is NYC where it appears prudence in building and financing is the order of the day and mega risk-taking with 'wasteful' design choices very seldom occur.

As long as 2WTC is completed someday which is the most iconic building, I'll think the plan was a success.

Last edited by aquablue; January 28th, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #2987
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an era where fear reigned supreme practically neutering any grandiose ambitions for revolutionary design.
And this is by far the biggest and most important reason why there should have been grandiose ambitions in the project because grandious ambitions would show the terrorists that they have not won. The point of terrorism is to spread fear amongst the innocent and by admitting such fear like you did you send the message to the world that terrorists have won. America and NYC have to regain their pride and this can be only achieved by a grandiose project mammoth in proportions which will show the world that America is the strongest and that it can recover from any blow stronger than ever before and that terorrists never have won and never will win. But we have a new complex which is very good, but not the slightest epic which it should have been and now for better or worse we need to lean to live with it. Despite the criticism it is an awesome feeling to see WTC towers rise again. I hope that people will learn to like the new complex, just as I did because appearance and size is only one half of what makes buildings iconic. The other half is what the people think about them and I think you'll surely agree with me when I say that I hope this complex will be popular and liked all arround the world

Sorry for going a bit off topic but in my opinion talking about the symbolic meaning of the complex which's part 4WTC is is sometimes necesarry
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Old January 28th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #2988
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And this is by far the biggest and most important reason why there should have been grandiose ambitions in the project because grandious ambitions would show the terrorists that they have not won. The point of terrorism is to spread fear amongst the innocent and by admitting such fear like you did you send the message to the world that terrorists have won. America and NYC have to regain their pride and this can be only achieved by a grandiose project mammoth in proportions which will show the world that America is the strongest and that it can recover from any blow stronger than ever before and that terorrists never have won and never will win. But we have a new complex which is very good, but not the slightest epic which it should have been and now for better or worse we need to lean to live with it. Despite the criticism it is an awesome feeling to see WTC towers rise again. I hope that people will learn to like the new complex, just as I did because appearance and size is only one half of what makes buildings iconic. The other half is what the people think about them and I think you'll surely agree with me when I say that I hope this complex will be popular and liked all arround the world

Sorry for going a bit off topic but in my opinion talking about the symbolic meaning of the complex which's part 4WTC is is sometimes necesarry
Admit fear? It was a known fact then that people were worried about tall buildings and attacks, nothing to do with me... don't even live there.

All in all, America is in economic decline in comparison/relative to the developing world's major economies so attempting to build these mammoth statements that do not make economic sense would be futile and would cause more problems than its worth. Any such grandiose projects just for the sake of 'sticking it to the terrorists' would be a stupid risk given the financial state of the country and the fact that America isn't some new upstart looking to make its mark on the world. America has no interest in going into more debt. This country needs to get its economic house in order, and building a massive white elephant just for prestige or patriotism would be idiotic, even though I would welcome it from a pure excitement or design point of view. The whole complex is too much for what the market will bear, given the fact that are no tenants for the other towers right now. Building even taller buildings would have been economic suicide for Larry or the other parties.

Building something like HSR or transit improvements would be a better priority than focusing on tall buildings just to show the terrorists that we won the war (which we have not yet). Tall buildings are great, but in the end, they need to make economic sense for the present and future growth expectations of a city, otherwise money is wasted.

Last edited by aquablue; January 28th, 2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #2989
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I think there is always a feasible balance between economic gain and size, however the new WTC goes 100% only for economic gain
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Old January 28th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #2990
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If it went 100% for economic gain, wouldn't all 4 towers be 300m+ Twin clones, or at least something very boxy which gives the largest rentable floor space?
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Old January 28th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #2991
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OK, then maybe 98% economic gain and 2% size, LOL
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Old January 28th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #2992
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I think it's much closer to 50/50 between economic prudence and design. It's certainly not more than 65% viability, because let's face it, you might find these tower fairly uninteresting, but they are quite a long way from drab regular square footprinted boxes.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #2993
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Actually I find these new WTC towers very interesting because they are an architectural masterpiece. I don't like their small height but their design is pure awesomeness
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Old January 29th, 2012, 12:15 AM   #2994
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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:36 AM   #2995
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Again, you go around calling these towers small... v.v
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Old January 29th, 2012, 04:32 AM   #2996
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Quote:
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Again, you go around calling these towers small... v.v
I know, it is ridiculous isn't it?

China seems like the place for him, haha.

Last edited by aquablue; January 29th, 2012 at 05:03 AM.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #2997
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This building looks so much taller, with 1WTC out of the picture lol.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #2998
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Contrary to popular belief height isn't the only thing I care about. This is proven by the fact that I love the new WTC buildings despite being unsatisfied by their height
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Old January 29th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #2999
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Wonder when the next two floors will go up...it seems it's been a little while...
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Old January 29th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #3000
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Quote:
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Contrary to popular belief height isn't the only thing I care about. This is proven by the fact that I love the new WTC buildings despite being unsatisfied by their height
The towers may be smaller than some wanted but they certainely aren't small towers.
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