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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #2161
Kanto
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What's so bad about Downtown?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #2162
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infrastructure is poor in general, plus there isnt a whole lot down there other than offices, its not a good area to be in outside of the work day.

restaurants, stores, culture, etc is all really limited compared to midtown.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejacko5 View Post
infrastructure is poor in general, plus there isnt a whole lot down there other than offices, its not a good area to be in outside of the work day.

restaurants, stores, culture, etc is all really limited compared to midtown.
Not a lot down there other than offices? If anything it is turning into a residential area and will continue to do so as more older office buildings are converted. I'd say the biggest issue with the WTC in the last month is Hurricane Sandy. Who wants to have their offices in a building that can get flooded like that when Midtown was high and dry?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #2164
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It's been making good progress since 9/11, don't you think?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #2165
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infrastructure is poor in general, plus there isnt a whole lot down there other than offices, its not a good area to be in outside of the work day.

restaurants, stores, culture, etc is all really limited compared to midtown.
Well I'm assuming once the WTC is done and the WFC finishes their renovations, on top of Fulton Center, that downtown will really compete with Midtown.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #2166
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infrastructure is poor in general, plus there isnt a whole lot down there other than offices, its not a good area to be in outside of the work day.

restaurants, stores, culture, etc is all really limited compared to midtown.
I dunno but won't the WTC PATH hub be a major improvement to the infrastructure? Considering its cost I hope it will.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #2167
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Not a lot down there other than offices? If anything it is turning into a residential area and will continue to do so as more older office buildings are converted. I'd say the biggest issue with the WTC in the last month is Hurricane Sandy. Who wants to have their offices in a building that can get flooded like that when Midtown was high and dry?
Folks at the PA have been implementing several measures to isolate the whole site if a storm of this magnitude strikes again during the next century. The only areas that can be affected by a typical 100-year storm are the Memorial, 1wtc's plaza and the vehicle security center. Silverstein towers and the hub are located at a higher elevation than the rest of the site.

Besides, people are starting to propose a 5 mile water barrier that can secure the whole harbor, expect during the next decades a serious plan being implemented.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #2168
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I have one question Otie, what are the elevations of the individual buildings of the new and the old complex? Where could I find such information?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #2169
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What's so bad about Downtown?
Mass transit. With Grand Central and Penn Station in Midtown, Midtown has direct rail access to Metro North, Path, NJ Transit, Long Island RR, Amtrak, etc, basically every commuter rail in the region, while downtown only has direct connection to the Path. That's why companies generally prefer Midtown.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #2170
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It's a 15 minute subway ride to midtown...not exactly a long time extra. It would take longer to walk to a subway station in some midtown office buildings, compared to WTC when the transit hub is finished.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 08:14 PM   #2171
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I have one question Otie, what are the elevations of the individual buildings of the new and the old complex? Where could I find such information?
The original wtc had one main ground elevation which was the Austin plaza, El. 327'-0" while the West street entrance or concourse level was at 310'-0".

Silverstein's Greenwich st. entrances have an elevation range of 315-316 above PANYNJ datum, except for Tower 4 which is at lower 313' number.

All elevations using PANYNJ datum.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #2172
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It's a 15 minute subway ride to midtown...not exactly a long time extra. It would take longer to walk to a subway station in some midtown office buildings, compared to WTC when the transit hub is finished.
Right, an extra 30 mins a day minimum, takes longer than 15 mins to get from say the WTC to GCT, that people don't want to spend commuting. Believe whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that businesses prefer Midtown for a variety of reasons, and one of the big ones is mass transit. Chadbourne & Parke had a tentative deal with the PA for space at 1 WTC, but their board vetoed it because they didn't want to leave Midtown.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #2173
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That's why they should have kept the LIRR link to Lower Manhattan -- > Jamaica/JFK as a priority project. Who was to blame for dropping that, Bloombucks?

Lower manhattan will need a commuter rail link to compete. Either a new tunnel to NJ, to LI, or a commuter connection to Penn Station or GCT allowing for through transit of trains.

In the mean time, linking PATH to Newark Airport would help airport access from LM and would be a trump card for the area.

Last edited by aquablue; December 7th, 2012 at 09:07 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #2174
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Quote:
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The original wtc had one main ground elevation which was the Austin plaza, El. 327'-0" while the West street entrance or concourse level was at 310'-0".

Silverstein's Greenwich st. entrances have an elevation range of 315-316 above PANYNJ datum, except for Tower 4 which is at lower 313' number.

All elevations using PANYNJ datum.
Thank you for the info. And 1WTC, what elevation does it have? I'd like to determine which of the complexes sat higher and therefore appeared higher. So if I understood correctly both the twins had the ground level at 327 feet, meaning their roof was at 1689 feet for the South Tower and 1695 feet for the North Tower with the antenna of the North Tower reaching 2055 feet. 2WTC and 3WTC have a 316 feet ground level with the roof of 2WTC reaching 1586 feet and a spire reaching 1666 feet. 3WTc has a ground of 316 feet with a roof height of 1389 feet and a spire height of 1487 feet. 4WTC has a ground 313 feet high with a roof height of 1290 feet.

Are these numbers correct? Please let me know where you can find stuff like this, thank you again
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #2175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otie View Post
Folks at the PA have been implementing several measures to isolate the whole site if a storm of this magnitude strikes again during the next century. The only areas that can be affected by a typical 100-year storm are the Memorial, 1wtc's plaza and the vehicle security center. Silverstein towers and the hub are located at a higher elevation than the rest of the site.

Besides, people are starting to propose a 5 mile water barrier that can secure the whole harbor, expect during the next decades a serious plan being implemented.
I know that, Otie, but you can't tell me that Sandy is not in the back of their minds when they consider leasing downtown. That is all I was getting at.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #2176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejacko5 View Post
infrastructure is poor in general, plus there isnt a whole lot down there other than offices, its not a good area to be in outside of the work day.

restaurants, stores, culture, etc is all really limited compared to midtown.
I worked Downtown for 3 years, and much preferred it to Midtown. There's actually more residential interspersed amongst the offices Downtown than Midtown. Not to mention great access to the waterfront, places like Stone Street, Battery Park, etc.

If you live outside the city than yes, infrastructure to Midtown is definitely better.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 10:09 PM   #2177
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I worked Downtown for 3 years, and much preferred it to Midtown. There's actually more residential interspersed amongst the offices Downtown than Midtown. Not to mention great access to the waterfront, places like Stone Street, Battery Park, etc.

If you live outside the city than yes, infrastructure to Midtown is definitely better.
IMO more streets need pedestrianization in downtown.

When we say downtown, we mean the Fidi right? I always thought SoHo was downtown.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #2178
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IMO more streets need pedestrianization in downtown.

When we say downtown, we mean the Fidi right? I always thought SoHo was downtown.
Totally agree. However people just walk all over the place as if they were pedestrianized. But I agree that DOT should just shut them down to auto traffic except maybe certain delivery hours. They are the perfect scale for pedestrianization.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #2179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejacko5 View Post
infrastructure is poor in general, plus there isnt a whole lot down there other than offices, its not a good area to be in outside of the work day.

restaurants, stores, culture, etc is all really limited compared to midtown.
Downtown is FINANCIAL district, and that is why there are no so many shops, restaurants etc( like in every city in the world). Mindtown is like cultural district, and that is way there are so many shops and restaurants there.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #2180
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Come on. Downtown is anything but bad. "Infrastructure is poor'' thats just not true, maybe in comparison to midtown but not 99% cities around the world. There is also plenty of residential buildings and anyway its not like anything is far in Manhattan.
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