daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Supertalls > Proposed Supertalls



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 30th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #2341
Eric Offereins
The only way is up
 
Eric Offereins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 68,593
Likes (Received): 28160

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
...
You are completely 100% right.
Eric Offereins no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 30th, 2012, 12:54 AM   #2342
1Filipe1
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 319

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
You know what would have been greedy? If he had retired after 9/11. And he very well could have. But here he is, in his 80s, working his ass off trying to fill the hole in the heart of lower NYC, with one of the most expensive, high quality group of towers ever built. They don't pay for themselves. This project is one of the most important for the USA, and the most stressful, and you have the nerve to say he is greedy? And then there's the fact that most of it was built in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. He has every right to be cautious about spending money. But no, all you people care is about a few dozen meters chopped off the height. Boo frikkin hoo.
i agree completely well said.
1Filipe1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #2343
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
None of his buildings reach the height of the Twin Towers and he builds them from the smallest 'til the tallest. That is just so uniconic. If he cared about anything other than greed he would have built taller building/s and he would start from the tallest one
I do'nt get this.. How do you know he is doing that out of greed? If the market is not ready for the larger tower it won't get built, period.

Last edited by aquablue; December 30th, 2012 at 06:43 AM.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #2344
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,330
Likes (Received): 8231

couldn't keep quite up with this project. is there any date when it will most likely continue? and what are the chances this building may face a redesign/reduction of height or even a cancellation? this is after all my favorite project of the complex and i really hope for some good news.
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #2345
yankeesfan1000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,235
Likes (Received): 560

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
couldn't keep quite up with this project. is there any date when it will most likely continue? and what are the chances this building may face a redesign/reduction of height or even a cancellation? this is after all my favorite project of the complex and i really hope for some good news.
No date so far on when construction will continue, but this building does require higher square footage rents than 3 WTC and Related's Hudson Yards, and maybe Extell's One Hudson Yards, so construction here is likely a year or two away, or at least those buildings/complexes need to fill before a tenant will locate here.

As for design changes or height changes, there is zero indication of that. Silverstein has indicated this is his favorite building of the bunch, and he's not budging on higher rents which indicates he's willing to wait for a tenant to pay more so that he can build the building as we know it.

Obviously, this will not be cancelled. With almost 90% of Manhattan's office space predating 1970, these proposed NY office buildings are really just a matter of when, not if.
yankeesfan1000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #2346
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,482

@yankeesfan exactly true
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #2347
1Filipe1
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 319

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
In what way is it underwhelming? I've personally seen tower 1 with my own eyes and it was one of the most spectacular man-made things I've seen. And yes, I like the twin towers' designs more, but that's not stopping me from appreciating the beauty of the current complex (design>heightx100) and I'm certainly not calling it uniconic. Pretty much everyone who thinks this is uniconic is stuck in 2004 with the 'Twin Towers rebuilding' group (which, in my opinion, many people there act as rude as the former 'truthers')

Have you seen any skyscraper? Just a question.
it really is a beauty..i was also really impressed with 4wtc idk what street i was on standing next to it looking straight up..wow
1Filipe1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #2348
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,482

Unfortunately from the angle I was at, 1WTC blocked 4WTC so I couldn't see it properly
but 2WTC will be in its own league compared to the other buildings, IMO.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #2349
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,330
Likes (Received): 8231

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
No date so far on when construction will continue, but this building does require higher square footage rents than 3 WTC and Related's Hudson Yards, and maybe Extell's One Hudson Yards, so construction here is likely a year or two away, or at least those buildings/complexes need to fill before a tenant will locate here.

As for design changes or height changes, there is zero indication of that. Silverstein has indicated this is his favorite building of the bunch, and he's not budging on higher rents which indicates he's willing to wait for a tenant to pay more so that he can build the building as we know it.

Obviously, this will not be cancelled. With almost 90% of Manhattan's office space predating 1970, these proposed NY office buildings are really just a matter of when, not if.
thanks for the detailed information. that we will most likely not see a design change makes me very happy, yet hearing that construction start may be still far away concerns me.
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #2350
yankeesfan1000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,235
Likes (Received): 560

No problem Zavatar.

And the comparison with the original WTC and Silverstein's buildings is apples and oranges. The original complex was built by the Port Authority, with public money, Silverstein's are being built with private money. Totally different.

Kanto move that discussion to one of the threads dedicated to the discussion of personal opinions on the complex, or create one. I think I speak for everyone when I say, I'm sick of this same discussion popping up in every WTC thread every few pages.
yankeesfan1000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #2351
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,482

7WTC had to be built first in order to rebuild the electrical substation, and taller to make up for the loss of floor area compared to the former building.

Just because he can afford other buildings doesn't mean he is able to increase the height of this one, just for the sake of height. That's not how development works. Like pretty much everyone else says, height is unimportant in the USA, and that is not the reason towers are built in developed countries nowadays. Heck, even China builds these monstrous developments like malls that are completely empty, but hey, at least they're large.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #2352
Otie
Researcher
 
Otie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,117
Likes (Received): 2186

The sequence of rebuilding Silverstein's towers is not entirely based on financial strategies but rely also in political issues and logistics plans.

I will repeat it once again, Seven was the first to be built mainly because the area wasn't plagued of political disputes and the only severe damages occured to the Con Edison substation.

Four was the second to follow for several reasons, but what boosted the desicion was because government agencies (the Port Authority and the City of New York) already anchored the building as part of the negotiations made between Silverstein and the Port Authority just after litigations were made against the insurance companies (negotiations where Silverstein would yield Tower One to Port Authority as the main developer, including the insurance money).

And as for Tower 2 and 3, 3 was needed to be built in accordance to the hub project because the mechanical levels house HVAC for the hub. 2 is left as the less "connected" to all the 16 acre projects.
Otie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #2353
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otie View Post
The sequence of rebuilding Silverstein's towers is not entirely based on financial strategies but rely also in political issues and logistics plans.

I will repeat it once again, Seven was the first to be built mainly because the area wasn't plagued of political disputes and the only severe damages occured to the Con Edison substation.

Four was the second to follow for several reasons, but what boosted the desicion was because government agencies (the Port Authority and the City of New York) already anchored the building as part of the negotiations made between Silverstein and the Port Authority just after litigations were made against the insurance companies (negotiations where Silverstein would yield Tower One to Port Authority as the main developer, including the insurance money).

And as for Tower 2 and 3, 3 was needed to be built in accordance to the hub project because the mechanical levels house HVAC for the hub. 2 is left as the less "connected" to all the 16 acre projects.
Right, so you agree that Larry is not acting cowardly by building the towers in this way? Thanks for showing that Larry is actually a logical and rational businessman and he is doing what is required and following a sound plan. Thus, he is not acting out of greed or cowardice, of which Kanto had falsely accused him. Sorry, Kanto, but your argument seems to be losing steam and probably never had any in the first place!

Edit -- regarding post below: I have no problem with Kanto being disappointed in the height of the WTC or design (even I am to a certain extent), but I do have a problem with his false accusation regarding Mr. Silverstein's way of building the towrs and the lack of appreciation for the complexities that he has to maneuver his way through. Also, as Otie has pointed out the facts, disparaging him in that way is just ridiculous when we see the true reasons for the rebuilding order and this makes Kanto's argument appear to stand on shaky ground or perhaps have no ground at all.

Last edited by aquablue; December 30th, 2012 at 09:37 PM.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #2354
CCs77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,113
Likes (Received): 2436

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Also, 2WTC's cost is estimated to be 3 billions. The cost of 1WTC is estimated to be 3,8 billions. The difference between these two is exactly the cost of 7WTC. did he had to build this building? And what about the PA? It wasted about 300 millions on those insultive pools and billions on the PATH station. Was this necessary? Couldn't it have used the money to make 1WTC taller or give them to Larry to make 2WTC taller and to build it earlier?

Answer these questions first, then we can continue.
But remember that the height of 1WTC has nothing to do with money or the lack of it. If they'd choose to make it taller they would, but remember that it is a very symbolic building and some facts of the design has to do with that. The height of the building itself is to replicate the height of the former towers, as the height of the spire is the independence year of the US in feet.
You may or may not agree those decisions, but it is not a money issue.
CCs77 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #2355
Otie
Researcher
 
Otie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,117
Likes (Received): 2186

I take this opportunity to make clear one point: the buildings couldn't grow substantially taller due to the reduced area in which it sits, adding a couple of extra elevator banks would make the lobby virtually disappear.
Otie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #2356
spectre000
Moderator
 
spectre000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 7,904
Likes (Received): 5170

I think it's also worth mentioning that 4WTC's height was increased with three additional office floors. Adding more floors increases income potential. If that makes Silverstein "greedy", so be it. He's had to cut 3WTC to try to make it work. If he has to do the same to 2WTC, so be it. I just want the WTC site rebuilt. At this point after so many years, I don't care about spires, plazas, cross bracing, etc. Just get this site rebuilt.
spectre000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2012, 07:20 AM   #2357
sylar82
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 19

This is my first post on here but I have been following and reading these posts on here every day for the last two years. I am wondering one thing. Larry Silverstein is an old man. If he dies before the buildings are built who takes over for him? I wonder if they will try to carry out what's left of his dream for this site or will they hack it up and take it a different way.
sylar82 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2012, 04:24 PM   #2358
Eric Offereins
The only way is up
 
Eric Offereins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 68,593
Likes (Received): 28160

His company will go on anyway, I don't see the problem.

http://www.silversteinproperties.com/company-profile
Eric Offereins no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2012, 10:22 PM   #2359
sylar82
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 19

Wondering if he passes that they won't try to change any of the unfinished buildings. I know his company will go on but tower 2 is my favorite building of the bunch and I just wonder if his successor will try to change something to save money if the building is still a stump like it is now when he passes.
sylar82 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2012, 11:18 PM   #2360
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,482

It's very unlikely they would change the overall design with four diamonds at the top, and they've already manufactured quite a lot of the cladding fins, so I don't see them going.
But what's most important is that there has not even been a hint of any supposition of a design change or height decrease. So I doubt Silverstein properties would allow the design to be changed in any way if he dies.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
200 greenwich st., 2wtc, foster and partners, lower manhattan, new york, nyc, silverstein, supertall, world trade center

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu