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Old April 23rd, 2015, 01:36 AM   #3561
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Hehe, forumers afraid not to interject that they don't like FOX.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 01:40 AM   #3562
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Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Though in order to make the building itself as tall as the old one, they need to add 92 feet. Funny thing is, I always considered the fact that the building itself is 1 270 feet tall without the spire on top of it as a form of merciful euthanasia. If it were truly just 12 feet shorter my blood would be boiling seeing how close that would be - but still lower. 1 270 feet is easier to swallow, the closer you get to the desired height (while still being below it), the more the rage about a wasted opportunity grows. If something is far shorter one can try to convince himself/herself that the building was never intended to have comparable height to the original
Kanto, I know you're getting on about roof height vs. spire height, but you're entirely missing the point. This is about matching aesthetics, not matching numbers. The tip of 2 WTC's spire culminates at the height of the corner where the South Tower's vertical wall met its parapet.

I can't find the 3D model someone made to illustrate the relationship, but take a look at the diagram below. If you superimposed the two towers, and line up the tip of 2 WTC with that corner of the South Tower, they snap together perfectly. The idea is to give the impression of the massing of the original tower, if you slashed off a chunk of it, starting at that corner -- the tip of the highest vertical face.

Why choose that point versus the height of the top of the roof? It seems slightly arbitrary, but looking at it visually, I understand it.



So Kanto, taking all that in mind, if you added 92 feet like you suggest, 2 WTC wouldn't match up with anything visually. Something like this:



Of course, from your roof height numbers-only point of view, the issue would be resolved or much closer to resolved, if they were to clad the spire in glass. I think most of us would prefer that anyway, and I don't know why they chose the open air frame, but when you think about it, that measurement is pretty arbitrary too.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 02:44 AM   #3563
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I know what model you're talking about, I think it was done by StR. I have it on my computer at home, and will share it here when I get home from work.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 03:49 AM   #3564
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You're alive, Chapelo!

STR did the new and old WTC side by side.

He also did those renderings of them cladded all black.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 04:10 AM   #3565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
If it were truly just 12 feet shorter my blood would be boiling seeing how close that would be - but still lower. 1 270 feet is easier to swallow, the closer you get to the desired height (while still being below it), the more the rage about a wasted opportunity grows. If something is far shorter one can try to convince himself/herself that the building was never intended to have comparable height to the original
This is exactly how I feel about Nordstrom being 1 foot shorter than 1WTC to the spire.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 04:41 AM   #3566
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Alive, and well

Here are the comparison renderings, all credit to StR:




The "sliced off top" starts at the roof of the former 2WTC, and covers the entire area that was the impact floors (77-85), as well as the trapped floors. Like the ventilated floors on 1WTC that are at the same height as the impact zone (and note that the glass used here looks similar to the facade of the Twins). Intentional?
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 06:40 AM   #3567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Though in order to make the building itself as tall as the old one, they need to add 92 feet. Funny thing is, I always considered the fact that the building itself is 1 270 feet tall without the spire on top of it as a form of merciful euthanasia. If it were truly just 12 feet shorter my blood would be boiling seeing how close that would be - but still lower. 1 270 feet is easier to swallow, the closer you get to the desired height (while still being below it), the more the rage about a wasted opportunity grows. If something is far shorter one can try to convince himself/herself that the building was never intended to have comparable height to the original
Its almost scary how identical I feel about this subject. I am happy that 2 WTC will finally rise. These tenants are exactly what was needed, and now we will finally get to see some magic after waiting for so many years. I think this one will actually end up being more "attractive" than 1 WTC, and the top (sloping roof) floors on this would be awesome to see in person. Forgive me for asking since its probably already here, but what will be up in the top of this tower? This will probably end up being my favorite one within the WTC complex, and I love the diamonds on the top which is actually pretty symbolic...

I wish that they could have gone taller, but I am still happy its 1350 feet and in the end, we will have 2 massive towers very close to each other in height, and then a few others that are not too much shorter. Lower Manhattan will be quite a site to behold when all of them are built, open for business, and lit up nicely! If they were to decide to add more height on, it would be even better. The WG rising in Los Angeles, is actually a great example of a supertall I feel very strongly that has wasted an opportunity. If the roof was up to 1100' instead of only the spire, it would look even more incredible. I believe with the original version of WG, they were planning to go up a good deal higher (380m or close), and with them scaling it down it wasted a chance. Eventually they will build something of that size range (380m to 400m), probably in the next decade or less. Quakes are no longer a governing factor with constructing supertalls, when they are built with care and all of the extra steps needed to be safe.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 08:11 PM   #3568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
Kanto, I know you're getting on about roof height vs. spire height, but you're entirely missing the point. This is about matching aesthetics, not matching numbers. The tip of 2 WTC's spire culminates at the height of the corner where the South Tower's vertical wall met its parapet.

I can't find the 3D model someone made to illustrate the relationship, but take a look at the diagram below. If you superimposed the two towers, and line up the tip of 2 WTC with that corner of the South Tower, they snap together perfectly. The idea is to give the impression of the massing of the original tower, if you slashed off a chunk of it, starting at that corner -- the tip of the highest vertical face.

Why choose that point versus the height of the top of the roof? It seems slightly arbitrary, but looking at it visually, I understand it.



So Kanto, taking all that in mind, if you added 92 feet like you suggest, 2 WTC wouldn't match up with anything visually. Something like this:



Of course, from your roof height numbers-only point of view, the issue would be resolved or much closer to resolved, if they were to clad the spire in glass. I think most of us would prefer that anyway, and I don't know why they chose the open air frame, but when you think about it, that measurement is pretty arbitrary too.
Well I have to disagree with you on this. To me the first picture you posted depicts a clearly shorter new tower compared to the old tower, and the new building doesn't match the look of its older counterpart. In the second pic they are equaly tall and match the aesthetics of each other. To me a spire will never be a part of a building and will never aestheticaly match to a solid part of another building. In my opinion a building ends at its roof and anything above that is a mere addon. I personally view the new tower's tripod spire as matching the tiny antennas on top of the old South Tower, but only a roof can match a roof

Btw, I agree that the building would look better if it were all solid 'til its pinnacle. In that case adding 12 feet would be enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by iiConTr0v3rSYx View Post
You're alive, Chapelo!

STR did the new and old WTC side by side.

He also did those renderings of them cladded all black.
Here, I just found it yesterday while searching for the good old STR renders myself. It's my wallpaper again

[IMG]http://i48.************/2i47cj.jpg[/IMG]
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Last edited by Kanto; April 23rd, 2015 at 08:16 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 10:19 PM   #3569
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That's the one!
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Old April 24th, 2015, 12:01 AM   #3570
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Wow! I wish Silverstein decides to go with black cladding for 2 WTC.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #3571
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Wow! I wish Silverstein decides to go with black cladding for 2 WTC.
While I really like black buildings I'm not sure how well that would go with the other since they are bright blue. It could clash...

If they were all black that'd be badass
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Old April 24th, 2015, 10:57 AM   #3572
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Wow! I wish Silverstein decides to go with black cladding for 2 WTC.
I think that wouldn't fit between the other WTC towers.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 12:16 PM   #3573
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Meanwhile:
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from Tower 1. Photos by Max Touhey. http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/0...ade_center.php



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Old April 24th, 2015, 04:46 PM   #3574
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this article is a good exposition of the current rental situation of new towers at NYC. The author obviously mentions the possible outcome of getting this tower built.

http://www.propertyweek.com/comment/...074185.article
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Old April 24th, 2015, 05:11 PM   #3575
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Meanwhile:
Calatrava's station is iconic, and the Memorial and surrounding park are stunning. This is shaping up as one of the greatest urban spots in the world.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 05:34 PM   #3576
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If they do end up changing anything, I hope it's to give the tower the extra 12 feet it needs to match the old 2WTC in height
Exactly. They should elevate the ceiling of one of the studios by twelve feet and they wouldn't even need to add another floor!

On a side note, I somehow remember this tower being listed as 1,349ft. tall. I guess wherever I found that bit of information was incorrect?
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Old April 24th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #3577
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^ That's correct.

The day we have all three buildings (2WTC, Verre, Steinway) in the U/C forums, will be a happy day.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 07:21 PM   #3578
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^ That's correct.

The day we have all three buildings (2WTC, Verre, Steinway) in the U/C forums, will be a happy day.
I know! I don't think that day is too far away...

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Old April 24th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #3579
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^ That's correct.

The day we have all three buildings (2WTC, Verre, Steinway) in the U/C forums, will be a happy day.
Don't forget Nordstrom, Vandy and the Tetris Tower, those are masterpieces too
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Old April 24th, 2015, 09:44 PM   #3580
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Bitter sweet?

Wall Street Journal
April 24, 2015

21st Century Fox, News Corp Considering Move to World Trade Center

Avant garde Danish architect Bjarke Ingels brought in to redesign 2 World Trade Center tower

By ELIOT BROWN

The final tower planned at the World Trade Center redevelopment could be dramatically altered under a proposal being discussed by 21st Century Fox Inc. and News Corp, which are considering a move to the site, according to people familiar with the talks.

The media companies and developer Larry Silverstein have brought in avant-garde Danish architect Bjarke Ingels to redesign 2 World Trade Center in the event of a move. Mr. Ingels, co-designer of Google Inc.’s planned new headquarters expansion in Silicon Valley, would replace renowned British architect Norman Foster as lead designer for 2 World Trade Center, these people said.

A deal is far from certain, as the companies are also considering a renewal of space at their midtown headquarters, 1211 Avenue of the Americas, which was built in 1973 as an expansion of Rockefeller Center. They expect to make a decision in coming months, these people said.

Even though the companies’ current headquarters lease doesn’t expire until 2020, it takes years to plan and construct a skyscraper. News Corp, which owns Dow Jones & Co., publisher of The Wall Street Journal, and 21st Century Fox were both part of the same company until 2013. Rupert Murdoch, chairman and chief executive of 21st Century Fox, is also News Corp’s chairman.

If the companies indeed opted to move to the World Trade Center, it would mark by far the largest change to the closely watched rebuilding since the tower designs were unveiled in 2006.

[...]

His design would keep the World Trade Center tower at about the same height of the 1,270-foot design by Mr. Foster, and it would be about the same 3 million square foot size, people familiar with the design said.

21st Century Fox and News Corp homed in on the Trade Center as an option given that there are few existing buildings with sufficient space for the companies, and development sites on the far West Side have generally grown expensive compared with lower Manhattan, people familiar with the search said.

The planned 2 World Trade Center tower would have plenty of room, as the companies would occupy about half of the 3 million square foot building. But the existing design was deemed problematic because it wasn’t considered ideal for studio space at the base—it was designed with bank-trading floors in mind—and because of the amount of infrastructure on the ground-level related to the PATH train station at the site, the people said.

[...]

Copyright ©2015 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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