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Old June 20th, 2015, 04:30 PM   #4621
SomeKindOfBug
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Originally Posted by Nostrano View Post
Sincerely I have no idea why these architects are so blazoned and paid so much in order to give birth to these abortions.
Because architecture is a blend of art and utility. We don't know the backroom needs of this project. We're not playing lego here. Tall buildings are expensive, and they need to justify their property value. The centre might have reached a point where the original 2WTC was never going to be built, regardless of design, just because of real world economics. It has laid dormant for a decade now, with no signs of life. At a certain point, you've just got to get on with things. That point, it seems, is now.

This is an extremely common occurrence in world architecture. Don't act like 2WTC is the first building to have a wonderful design scrapped for something cheaper and more available. Half of New York City's skyline is comprised of 'the other design' that was settled for after the original architect's vision was deemed infeasible.

People talking about leaving the site empty or going back to the drawing board or doing some kind of petition are living a fantasy. This ugly building will get built and in time will be accepted as part of the city. New York is ugly and brutal and has a theme of coarse pragmatism running through it. That's fine. No building is more important than the city as a whole. 2WTC will become part of the hive and add to the density of lower Manhattan and everything will be fine.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 05:54 PM   #4622
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Let's hope this tower gets a big redesign.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 07:41 PM   #4623
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Can't wait for all you haters do a 180 when this actually starts going up and start announcing how 'it's grown on you'. This tower is very 21st century, not easy to get, has unusual proportions and replaces something that was universally liked - but all that doesn't mean that it's not gonna look kickass when it's done. So stop whining.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 09:28 PM   #4624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hateman View Post
This is a proposal for a condo in downtown Brooklyn:


http://newyorkyimby.com/2015/06/visi...ael-leyva.html

It's a disgrace that one of the most important construction sites in Manhattan has the same design quality as a condo in an outer borough. It's also indicative of a hype-talent disparity.
I have two questions that maybe related more to psychology than to architecture.
1. Why suddenly we, as a mankind, started feeling a need for this kind of visually unstable architecture? Do we need to prove that we can recreated the Tower of Pisa - by design?
2. Who wants to live and/or work in these cantilevering top floors? What is their psychological profile? Professional BASE jumpers, I guess. But who else? I am personally ok with cantilevering observation desks - but you spend just a few minutes there and go there mostly once in you lifetime. For the rest of my life knowing that I have solid floors under my feet all the way down to the ground gives me some kind of comfort that I am not ready to part with.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 10:38 PM   #4625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
Because architecture is a blend of art and utility. We don't know the backroom needs of this project. We're not playing lego here. Tall buildings are expensive, and they need to justify their property value. The centre might have reached a point where the original 2WTC was never going to be built, regardless of design, just because of real world economics. It has laid dormant for a decade now, with no signs of life. At a certain point, you've just got to get on with things. That point, it seems, is now.

This is an extremely common occurrence in world architecture. Don't act like 2WTC is the first building to have a wonderful design scrapped for something cheaper and more available. Half of New York City's skyline is comprised of 'the other design' that was settled for after the original architect's vision was deemed infeasible.

People talking about leaving the site empty or going back to the drawing board or doing some kind of petition are living a fantasy. This ugly building will get built and in time will be accepted as part of the city. New York is ugly and brutal and has a theme of coarse pragmatism running through it. That's fine. No building more important than the city as a whole. 2WTC will become part of the hive and add to the density of lower Manhattan and everything will be fine.
You are basically saying that we can't have nice buildings because of the economy. I am curios, has economy invented us OR we invented the economy? Why should our product ruin our cities, homes or lifestyle?! Are we that stupid that we can't control something we are using everyday?! And this is the WTC site, which deserves the best buildings designed by the best architects. I am not asking for every building that I like to be built, I am just asking for a building that deserves to be built on that sacred location and which will become the masterpiece of the 21st-century New York. Am I asking too much? Are WE asking too much? I don't think so...
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Old June 20th, 2015, 11:36 PM   #4626
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Quote:
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The funniest thing is that these cubes don't even remind me of the buildings in TriBeCa. I think he made that up to justify his shitty building.
Exactly my thoughts when this design was first released
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Old June 20th, 2015, 11:47 PM   #4627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
Because architecture is a blend of art and utility. We don't know the backroom needs of this project. We're not playing lego here. Tall buildings are expensive, and they need to justify their property value. The centre might have reached a point where the original 2WTC was never going to be built, regardless of design, just because of real world economics. It has laid dormant for a decade now, with no signs of life. At a certain point, you've just got to get on with things. That point, it seems, is now.

This is an extremely common occurrence in world architecture. Don't act like 2WTC is the first building to have a wonderful design scrapped for something cheaper and more available. Half of New York City's skyline is comprised of 'the other design' that was settled for after the original architect's vision was deemed infeasible.

People talking about leaving the site empty or going back to the drawing board or doing some kind of petition are living a fantasy. This ugly building will get built and in time will be accepted as part of the city. New York is ugly and brutal and has a theme of coarse pragmatism running through it. That's fine. No building is more important than the city as a whole. 2WTC will become part of the hive and add to the density of lower Manhattan and everything will be fine.
Well said.
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Old June 21st, 2015, 06:48 AM   #4628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalscarr View Post
Can't wait for all you haters do a 180 when this actually starts going up and start announcing how 'it's grown on you'. This tower is very 21st century, not easy to get, has unusual proportions and replaces something that was universally liked - but all that doesn't mean that it's not gonna look kickass when it's done. So stop whining.
This is a message board. It's designed to absorb the whining.

As to whether or not this will look "kickass" in the end, we have a pretty good preview. Maybe some will come to like it more, and some come to like it less. But folks are allowed their opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chepm View Post
I have two questions that maybe related more to psychology than to architecture.
1. Why suddenly we, as a mankind, started feeling a need for this kind of visually unstable architecture? Do we need to prove that we can recreated the Tower of Pisa - by design?
2. Who wants to live and/or work in these cantilevering top floors? What is their psychological profile?
A) It's not unstable, and even as an illusion most people get it. But even then people appreciate an adrenalin rush now and again. Roller coasters, skydiving... We have an affinity for taking some risks and...
B) we often enjoy showing our prowess over nature or physics. Even if I don't like this as a design I respect the idea of pushing (albeit, tepidly) some conventions and boundaries. Having mastered the ability to touch the sky we're now experimenting with how we do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
You are basically saying that we can't have nice buildings because of the economy. I am curios, has economy invented us OR we invented the economy? Why should our product ruin our cities, homes or lifestyle?! Are we that stupid that we can't control something we are using everyday?!
We remain a consumer culture and essentially still market based, so function most often trumps aesthetics. That's the paradox of architecture and land development - We have to let the market demonstrate the negative impacts of poor design in order to produce the power to change. (See: Walmart, most "garden" apartments...) If this is as bad as many of us fear then in time it will show when the district loses its postcard appeal. Small comfort to us, but that's how open market economies handle development.

Quote:
And this is the WTC site, which deserves the best buildings designed by the best architects. I am not asking for every building that I like to be built, I am just asking for a building that deserves to be built on that sacred location and which will become the masterpiece of the 21st-century New York. Am I asking too much? Are WE asking too much? I don't think so...
For the sake of whatever concessions the City gave the developer I would think some input is warranted, plus any developer worth his salt would want to play up to public appeal. But that's not a right to which we're obligated.
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Old June 21st, 2015, 01:50 PM   #4629
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I am disappointed we didn't get either of these two incredible designs.

They are both simply outstanding. Liebeskind's original design mimics the statue of liberty beautifully, and Foster's takes elements from their amazing Bank of China and puts in to a twin tower design paying homage to the originals while looking even better than Bank of China.

If anything is a disgrace it is that these designs never happened, what ultimately happened to 1WTC is a shame, but I feel with Bjarke Ingels' tower we will get at least one interesting building in the complex.
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Old June 21st, 2015, 02:48 PM   #4630
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Really, I've never understand how that buildings in the second design can stand on in the real life.
It seems just a joking optical illusion.

Surely I've never liked it.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 12:04 AM   #4631
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 12:55 AM   #4632
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They forgot Jesus...
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 01:13 AM   #4633
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^ Hahaha thats hilarious.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 01:36 AM   #4634
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....
Put another way - Take your hands and block out the other buildings in the picture above, looking merely at this structure. Is it iconic to you? Does it make you Oooh and Aaah? Does it make you say I want this for my city? I think the site deserves something that yields a "Yes!" answer to those questions.[/QUOTE]


Now that you mention it, I did this just now, and all I could see was some futuristic-attempt looking condo building somewhere in Toronto or Mississauga (maybe next to the Absolut - Marilyn Monroe - Towers). It looks like a stunt, not a real office building.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 02:29 AM   #4635
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Let's hope this tower gets a big redesign.
It did get a BIG redesign.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 05:04 AM   #4636
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By timpdx





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Old June 22nd, 2015, 09:52 AM   #4637
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Now it starts to look pretty iconic ! It actually looks better that way... Those boxes start making sense...
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 10:13 AM   #4638
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It did get a BIG redesign.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 12:30 PM   #4639
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Seems to me that the pattern for WTC buildings is that any quirkiness or detailing in the original concepts get ironed out and the end result is corporate and conservative-looking. I don't think this would necessarily be a bad thing for WTC2 because it would fit better into its surroundings if it was toned down.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 04:19 PM   #4640
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They forgot Jesus...
I suspect they consider Jesus to be too socialist
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