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Old July 23rd, 2015, 08:52 PM   #4881
MarshallKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouDagreat View Post
The New York Times has a short video rendering of 5 views of the 2 WTC design:

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/...-trade-center/
Even though the design remains terrible, this is a pretty sweet interactive tool. Anyone have an idea where this model came from, and if it's ever been used before? I'd love to see it adapted to other projects in the future.

Also, having had some more time to process it, I think I'm zeroing in on precisely what I find so ugly and inelegant about this design (aside from the tilting over cantilevers and the distasteful underside news tickers) -- and it has everything to do with the setbacks.

Of the 7 blocks comprising the tower, the lower 6 are identical in height, which creates a flat line for our eyes to follow...



...which is fine in and of itself, except that the 7th block is inexplicably shorter, so our eyes are suddenly drawn off track like this:



Basically, it makes it stumpy and unsatisfying, especially for those of us drawn to more classical shapes (the kind imagined by Hugh Ferriss, and found most prominently in art deco). Whether we're trained or it's in our nature, most of us prefer buildings with soaring sightlines, that direct our eyes up into the sky, rather than off at some cockeyed angle.

Compare the setbacks of 2WTC to 111 W. 57th (Renders by the incomparable Otie):




You can see how the height between the the setbacks changes -- shortening as we approach the top, and then elongating again at the pinnacle. It draws our eyes up, nearly vertically by the top. So if you applied a similar angle of inclination to 2 WTC it would be more like this:



I don't know if that would work for 2 WTC because just elongating that uppermost box may look weird, but I think we would all find it more satisfying if 1) the setback heights changed more dynamically, and 2) the sightline they generated directed our eyes upwards instead of sideways.

But maybe that's just me.
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 09:29 PM   #4882
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perhaps this design is chosen, because so many People don't agree with it, that at the end...a twin Tower is built?
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 09:42 PM   #4883
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Are they seriously planning on building this? I'm trying to be open minded but it looks very unsatisfying and will probably be detrimental to the gorgeous NYC skyline.
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 10:24 PM   #4884
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Look at classic examples of setback skyscrapers in NYC:



And now 2WTC:



Bjarke should take some more inspiration from what went before.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 12:41 AM   #4885
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It's more like 'offset blocks' than setbacks.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 03:49 AM   #4886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiM View Post
Some more renders of the complex:

I can tolerate this building from most angles, but this is the angle that I just can't get over. It's absolutely awful.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 07:41 AM   #4887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidsam52 View Post
It seems that there is widespread and almost universal distaste for the new design (including this user). One can only hope that somehow, Silverstein, FOX, and BIG are listening and will come up with something better.
The opposite is true. There has been widespread acclaim for the tower from architectural critics and the public. It's a significant improvement over the derivative Foster design.

The only place where I have seen criticism is in SSC. No offense, but this website is hardly representative of the public, and few people posting here have any design background. You see it in the comments like "this looks like a stack of boxes". It sounds like simpletons going to a modern art museum and saying "I could have thrown paint on a canvas too".

Now obviously you're entitled to your opinion. But just realize it isn't shared by most especially the design professionals and decision-makers.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 08:34 AM   #4888
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yeah ima call bs on you.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #4889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juanes11 View Post
The opposite is true. There has been widespread acclaim for the tower from architectural critics and the public. It's a significant improvement over the derivative Foster design.

The only place where I have seen criticism is in SSC. No offense, but this website is hardly representative of the public, and few people posting here have any design background. You see it in the comments like "this looks like a stack of boxes". It sounds like simpletons going to a modern art museum and saying "I could have thrown paint on a canvas too".

Now obviously you're entitled to your opinion. But just realize it isn't shared by most especially the design professionals and decision-makers.
I would be very interested in seeing such articles. Can you share the links?
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Old July 24th, 2015, 11:19 AM   #4890
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I think if they extend those cantilevers downwards, it could give the building some vertical emphasis
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Old July 24th, 2015, 02:25 PM   #4891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juanes11 View Post
The opposite is true. There has been widespread acclaim for the tower from architectural critics and the public. It's a significant improvement over the derivative Foster design.

The only place where I have seen criticism is in SSC. No offense, but this website is hardly representative of the public, and few people posting here have any design background. You see it in the comments like "this looks like a stack of boxes". It sounds like simpletons going to a modern art museum and saying "I could have thrown paint on a canvas too".

Now obviously you're entitled to your opinion. But just realize it isn't shared by most especially the design professionals and decision-makers.
It sounds like the design community has its head too far up its own you-know-what and is getting high off the farts. I've seen plenty of criticism elsewhere.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 06:39 PM   #4892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noms78 View Post
I would be very interested in seeing such articles. Can you share the links?
He won't be able to provide links to them because they don't exist!
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Old July 24th, 2015, 07:00 PM   #4893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noms78 View Post
I would be very interested in seeing such articles. Can you share the links?
The original Wired article with the reveal of the new design includes a passage about Silverstein approaching the other WTC architects about the design:

Quote:
so he called a meeting at his offices to elicit the opinion of David Childs, chair emeritus of the firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and the primary designer of One World Trade Center. Ingels presented the building, and after some nervous moments—Childs started by saying he’d promised to give his “honest opinion”—the elder architect offered an emphatic endorsement. Later Silverstein received similar reassurances from Richard Rogers and Fumihiko Maki, the architects of towers Three and Four.
And Curbed had an article about Community Board 1's reaction to being shown the design:

Quote:
Although the design was first unveiled by Wired in the beginning of June, the peoples' committee was presented the plan on July 13, says Downtown Express, which they reacted to with applause.
Conversely, there has definitely been criticism of not just 2 WTC, but Bjarke's work in general, as described in this NYT article:

Quote:
Critics of Mr. Ingels, however, say that his work tends to mirror the same innovations popular among other so-called starchitects: lots of glass walls, big open workspaces, geometric designs that seem pursued for their novelty rather than usability.

The building at 2 World Trade Center, for instance, will have outdoor terraces on many of the highest levels. “Have you ever been in a garden on a balcony on the 80th floor of a building?” asked Mr. Kimmelman. “It’s windy up there, Bjarke.”

Regarding the building, Mr. Kimmelman added, “I can’t help but feel that this is an office park, why are you not just building another tower for an office park?”
Kimmelman, if you didn't know, is the NY Time's resident architecture critic, who has not always been kind to starchitects, and I'm honestly looking forward to his op-ed on 2 WTC, which is surely in the works.

But it's true that there is plenty of support for the design out there. Considering my own feelings about it, I'm surprised there hasn't been a more vocal opposition. I honestly think the prevailing sentiment with regards to the WTC is "Just finish already," and the average person is less interested in the architecture than finishing the healing process in FiDi and restoring it to a fully integrated neighborhood.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 12:51 AM   #4894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xing lin View Post
I think if they extend those cantilevers downwards, it could give the building some vertical emphasis
That is definitely not perfect but at least a MILLION times better than the current turd of a design.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 02:53 AM   #4895
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Ah yes, and now we've established that vertical line in the design, maybe we could take that highest column, multiply it by four and make the resulting four tops look diamond shaped... Then we're really on to something...
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Old July 25th, 2015, 04:52 AM   #4896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post

And Curbed had an article about Community Board 1's reaction to being shown the design:
Scroll to the bottom... Most of the comments aren't so positive
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Old July 25th, 2015, 05:11 AM   #4897
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Quote:
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Scroll to the bottom... Most of the comments aren't so positive
Praise for the building seems to be most positive over at SSP.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 09:21 AM   #4898
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The design is similar to bd Bacata in Bogota - Colombia . also that building is already nearing completion in online images we note that also will have green terraces on each step . that means bjarke disregarded this building for its design.!!
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Old July 25th, 2015, 03:34 PM   #4899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juank1217 View Post
The design is similar to bd Bacata in Bogota - Colombia . also that building is already nearing completion in online images we note that also will have green terraces on each step . that means bjarke disregarded this building for its design.!!
Yeah i drew that building for a work for class and it's really similar
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Old July 25th, 2015, 07:07 PM   #4900
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Went to check on the progress of WTC2 and i must say i'm shocked...What happened?
The orignal design was so promising, a true masterpiece in the making and in my opinion the finishing touch of the new wtc site.

Can anybody explain why exactly the design has changed?
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