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Old January 17th, 2016, 12:25 AM   #5501
TheIllinoisan
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Oh, nooo!! A bunch of stacked boxes located in the heart of NYC just got cancelled! How is the global architecture ever going to recover from this punch!?

Seriously, I hope the Foster's design (totally 90s Philly, IMO ) will be back, but I feel kinda sorry for BIG and Silverstein, Murdoch totally made fools of them. And for BIG, they should design some lower highrises until they get to huge supertalls, you always need to practice on smaller things to be able do to BIG.
Why in the world would you feel bad for Silverstein? Nobody is forcing him to make changes to the site or do bussiness with Newscorp. ALL of the design decisions for 2,3, and 4 WTC are ultimately his decisions. In the case of 2 WTC hes simply trying to make the most money he can in the shortest amount of time. It makes for good bussiness but terrible architecture. Theres literally no reason to feel sorry for him.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 12:25 AM   #5502
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There are many factors that will determine which design will ultimately rise on the site, the tenant, the price tag, Silverstein...
But in the end, going back to the Foster design seems to be the logical choice, it will be cheaper to build, it can still be modified to accommodate the tenant; I still believe BIG being involved with 2WTC was a matter of ego and if Foster was given the chance to make changes to accommodate Newscorp, he would've done so, and Silverstein got burned by going along with it.
Not to forget that the Foster design was also Silverstein's favorite, so I have no doubt that if it was up to him, that's the one he would go for. He seemed to have some reservations with BIG's design until the other architects on the site gave their approval.
Now would Foster want back in? I don't know...
So who knows what's next for this site.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 01:56 AM   #5503
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we shall see. It is a 10 year old design at this point, after all.
why not use an even older design for 2WTC?



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Old January 17th, 2016, 01:57 AM   #5504
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We may see an entirely different design all together since BIG designed the building specifically for News Corp. I can't really see Foster's design coming back just cause it's a decade old. If we do see it coming back I'd expect it to look slightly different. Sucks that this is pushed back even further now.

I doubt that it would be an entirely new design as it would mean commissioning a new architect and structural engineer to come up with a design and these studies aren't cheap. And after being thru that process twice, I'm not sure Silverstein wants to go for the trifecta. Third time being a charm doesn't apply in this case.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 02:03 AM   #5505
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Anyway, I am scared that now Silverstein will build a lowrise on the plot, since he wants the whole complex to be built ASAP. It has been mentioned before, in 2009, if you guys remember, when both 2 and 3 WTC were meant to be lowrise buildings.

Any new design would have to be approved by the architect in charge of the master plan (Liebeskind) and I doubt that a low-rise stuck between WTC1 and WTC3 would be approved. Plus reducing square footage would mean less revenue for SP in the long run.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 02:29 AM   #5506
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Old January 17th, 2016, 02:41 AM   #5507
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I remember from an article on Curbed NY that Ingel's team might've have problems at the 2WTC site, had they gone through with construction. Was this a problem specific to the BIG design, or would they still have this problem if they used the Foster design?
Working around and relocating the equipment it is already on the base of 2WTC is going to be a problem no matter what gets built there. Because the tower was delayed they were forced to install the equipment required to support the underground facilities on the base instead of where they were designed to be on a mechanical floor higher up in the building.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 02:51 AM   #5508
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I have high hopes for the Foster design to come back because:
1) Rupert Murdock may or (may not) have cancelled the deal because it was going to be too complicated and expensive overall to plop a tower on foundations meant for another tower. It would be logistically unnecessary and plain idiotic to continue with this complicated plan that was meant just for this one company.
2) I doubt that any company who wants to be the anchor tenant for 2WTC would so vehemently support the boxy design over the old design which probably would be much easier to build. If that is the case then architecture is dead.
3) Compare the two designs and try to tell me with a straight face that the second one is architecture.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 03:12 AM   #5509
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Definitely i prefer Foster's but i started to like a bit the boxy design😂
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Old January 17th, 2016, 04:14 AM   #5510
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i cant believe
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Old January 17th, 2016, 04:51 AM   #5511
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Which ever design gets built faster is the one I'll like more lol. In all seriousness though I would say Foster's is sleeker and more classy. But I like BIG's cause I liked the way it looked from Brooklyn and how imposing it looked from the ground.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 04:59 AM   #5512
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I'm only 27 but with the way things are going...
Lol. The drama with this tower is truly endless. I ALMOST feel bad for Silverstein.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 05:20 AM   #5513
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Lol. The drama with this tower is truly endless. I ALMOST feel bad for Silverstein.
I'm 5 years younger than him. Let the wait commence!

Larry is 85 and isn't getting younger, atleast before kicking the bucket, he can die knowing he completed the WTC.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 05:25 AM   #5514
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1) Rupert Murdock may or (may not) have cancelled the deal because it was going to be too complicated and expensive overall to plop a tower on foundations meant for another tower. It would be logistically unnecessary and plain.
The more I think about it and the more I start to believe that the Murdoches never really intended to move to WTC#2, but just used the whole stunt for publicity and to get leverage to renegotiate their lease extension (apparently they got a big discount to stay midtown). They claimed that they did not like the design so that they would not have to sign a deal right away before redesign studies would be completed first, which gave them a way out. James Murdoch even got some free publicity for his buddy Bjarke in the process. Evil but genius.
How Silverstein (who calls himself savvy) took the bait without requesting more than a non-binding letter of intent is beyond comprehension.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 02:44 PM   #5515
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Here's an excellent example for BIG to follow in designing a skyscraper that resembles stacked boxes. Z12 in Beijing.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 03:14 PM   #5516
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There are stacked-box buildings already built or being built in Moscow, Beijing, Jersey City and even Austin. As the king of skyscrapers, New York doesn't need to copy those cities.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 03:24 PM   #5517
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As a matter of fact, BIG's stacked boxes are way more innovative than those in Moscow or other cities, it's just that they didn't suite the location. I wouldn't have problems with the tower if it was built somewhere else, heck, I would even like it, but it would totally kill the WTC site with its rogue monumentality, and let's face it, we were all waiting for Foster's tower to rise, for surely the best one on the site, that's the reason why this tower was mostly hated by forumers here. If it replaced 4 WTC or even 3 WTC, I don't think we would have this kind of backlash and disapproval.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 03:44 PM   #5518
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As a matter of fact, BIG's stacked boxes are way more innovative than those in Moscow or other cities, it's just that they didn't suite the location [...]
Exactly. It's like having the annual clown convention at a former concentration camp. BIG's silly and edgy design shows absolutely no understanding for it's location and even less so for the buildings around it.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 03:51 PM   #5519
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Exactly. It's like having the annual clown convention at a former concentration camp.
Interesting analogy.
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Old January 18th, 2016, 03:49 AM   #5520
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Anyway, I am scared that now Silverstein will build a lowrise on the plot, since he wants the whole complex to be built ASAP. .
A lowrise will not make financial sense on that plot, the land is expensive, you need a tall building to make the numbers work. If they build a low rise, the rent per square foot will have to be several times more than average to break-even, then nobody will rent it. It's simple economics. So no worry, my friend, just leave this to the professionals. They will build a tall building.
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