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Old February 1st, 2016, 09:02 PM   #5621
CityGuy87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dminer View Post
It only makes sense for Silverstein to keep both options and shop them around to as wide variety of potential tentants as possible. Hopefully the Foster design will emerge 'victorious' in the end though.
True. I can see Silverstein using the Foster design to attract financial tenants and BIG for media. However, the BIG design as we know it is most likely dead. That was designed for a specific tenant that's no longer coming. If Silverstein does retain BIG, we should expect a new design from them, one more closely curated by Silverstein himself. So I think it's safe to say that we shouldn't be expecting anything along the likes of cantilevering underside news tickers, etc.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 12:21 AM   #5622
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Unknown at this time. All we know is that the main reason for why BIG's redesign was offered (Fox) has now been taken off the table, and that preliminary works on the site were configured to accommodate the Foster design.

PS: Love the avatar!
Yes, Indeed, the foundation work done to this point is ALL the Foster design. It had been hoped that once construction began, it would not be interrupted. Alas, that did not happen
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 02:52 AM   #5623
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Yes, Indeed, the foundation work done to this point is ALL the Foster design. It had been hoped that once construction began, it would not be interrupted. Alas, that did not happen
That is why I believe the Foster design is not to be counted out. As you said, the foundation work for his design is all good to go. Silverstein wants to get the thing done before he kicks the bucket and even if the Fox deal went through, the Foster foundation actually had to be demolished even though they initially said BIG's design could fit on it. Demolishing and rebuilding the foundation would easily add another 2 years onto the expected completion date (which was originally slated for 2020), not to mention the costs of doing such would be huge.

In short, the foundation for 2 WTC is only compatible with one design and it would be really inefficient both time and money-wise to demolish it and start from square one. The only dilemma is the fact that Foster's design is geared towards financial sector tenants and downtown offices (especially the WTC) have been attracting media, creative and tech firms. Since it's safe to say that a major media conglomerate like Fox won't be anchoring this site that needed a tailor-suited tower redesign for their high list of requirements, I'd say the Foster tower could easily house tech and creative firms and I don't think Foster would have any issues slightly tweaking the interiors to attract those types.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 06:47 PM   #5624
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Wasn't Silvestrin forced to build Foster WTC2 foundation and finish below-ground levels because of the transportation hub functions and infrastructure? That's why I thought they were trying to build BIG design on top of existing foundation. Demolishing it and rebuilding from ground would distrupt the transportation hub no?
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 08:34 PM   #5625
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How is the design geared toward finance? I understand media companies need their studios, but for most office work, office is office.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 08:59 PM   #5626
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Media tenants need flat roof with high parapet to conceal antenna dish equipment.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 09:19 PM   #5627
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How is the design geared toward finance? I understand media companies need their studios, but for most office work, office is office.
The studio thing shouldn't be written off so easily, since they were going to occupy the same space as the Foster design's massive trading floors.

But my hunch is that James Murdoch envisions Fox as a 21st Century media company more in the vein of Google than CBS. That would mean wide open floorplans (the kind where you can toss a frisbee from one corner to the other), versus the financial sector which has stuck with traditional office floorplans. I think it's about corporate culture as much as any practical reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dminer View Post
It only makes sense for Silverstein to keep both options and shop them around to as wide variety of potential tentants as possible. Hopefully the Foster design will emerge 'victorious' in the end though.
That's my thought as well: that both designs are still likely on the table, and whichever design we ultimately get depends on whether a finance company or a media company (or mystery option #3) anchors this project.

However...

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Originally Posted by CityGuy87 View Post
As you said, the foundation work for his design is all good to go. Silverstein wants to get the thing done before he kicks the bucket and even if the Fox deal went through, the Foster foundation actually had to be demolished even though they initially said BIG's design could fit on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dminer View Post
Wasn't Silvestrin forced to build Foster WTC2 foundation and finish below-ground levels because of the transportation hub functions and infrastructure? That's why I thought they were trying to build BIG design on top of existing foundation. Demolishing it and rebuilding from ground would distrupt the transportation hub no?
I'm pretty confused by this wrinkle. Someone (can't recall who, I think an insider who dropped by the thread a couple months ago) reported that although the original BIG plan could be placed on top of the foundation with some clever engineering, it turned out later that it would have to be destroyed and rebuilt.

As far as I can recall, both plans were complicated by having to build a redundant hub ventilation system above the one already in place during construction, before building on the foundation/ground floors could commence. I'm not an engineer, but I don't understand how you could construct what's essentially a second story while simultaneously deconstructing the first...

Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe Fox was engaging with Silverstein in bad faith all along, and the BIG proposal was never actually viable to build in the first place. As much as I dislike the Murdochs, that seems like a stretch (not least because it would have involved BIG playing along to a degree). It would mean that not only had Fox wasted a year of Silverstein's time and resources, but left him with a "media ready" design that can't actually be built.

I'm sure there's something less nefarious going on, but I would love an engineer to weigh in on how/whether the BIG design is still viable -- even though I'll be happy as a clam if it isn't built.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 09:23 PM   #5628
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Media tenants need flat roof with high parapet to conceal antenna dish equipment.
No, that was just Fox. 3 WTC is anchored by a media tenant named Group M and they didn't force Silverstein to change architects.

2 WTC will most likely attract media tenants but probably not on the level of Fox. I think it's fairly safe to say that this tower won't be anchored by a similarly-sized media conglomerate.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 10:33 PM   #5629
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Couldnt the Foster building floor plates be opened up? I mean at the end of the day its a concrete floor with columns spaced around, you could put up walls wherever the hell you want.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:31 AM   #5630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
I'm pretty confused by this wrinkle. Someone (can't recall who, I think an insider who dropped by the thread a couple months ago) reported that although the original BIG plan could be placed on top of the foundation with some clever engineering, it turned out later that it would have to be destroyed and rebuilt.

As far as I can recall, both plans were complicated by having to build a redundant hub ventilation system above the one already in place during construction, before building on the foundation/ground floors could commence. I'm not an engineer, but I don't understand how you could construct what's essentially a second story while simultaneously deconstructing the first...
It was never officially confirmed that the foundations that exist for the Foster design building would have to be taken out for the BIG design building. That was just a rumor that was never confirmed. As long as the overall weight of the 2 buildings are similar a good engineering firm should be able to make the existing foundations work.

Relocating the ventilation systems isn't really that big a job as far as engineering is concerned. It will take some time, effort and obviously money but other than that there's nothing technically challenging about it. You just build the 2nd floor plate on top of columns that fit between the existing equipment on the 1st floor. This was already allowed for the equipment was installed. You then install new equipment or relocate the existing equipment to the new second-floor and connected to the required ductwork going into the subterranean portions of the development.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 01:15 AM   #5631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Unknown at this time. All we know is that the main reason for why BIG's redesign was offered (Fox) has now been taken off the table, and that preliminary works on the site were configured to accommodate the Foster design.

PS: Love the avatar!

Thanks for the response! -Ricky
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 02:22 AM   #5632
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It was never officially confirmed that the foundations that exist for the Foster design building would have to be taken out for the BIG design building. That was just a rumor that was never confirmed.
Right, I should've clarified, I took that to be a rumor when it first surfaced. I wasn't sure whether anyone had anything further to back that up, but the idea that the foundation would have to be removed does seem pretty far-fetched.

Was it also just a rumor that retrofitting BIG's design onto the existing foundation would have been significantly more expensive than sticking with Foster? That I definitely would believe. And if Fox had had to eat the extra cost of implementing their preferred design, that might have factored into their decision to stay put.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 01:14 AM   #5633
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Interesting Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...tyscape-models

Scroll down towards the bottom and they have the WTC site. Looks like they used BIG's design.

I always wanted to build a model out of Legos but now it seems like I won't need to. I guess updating neighborhoods is as easy as updating a tile.

BTW they also used a proposed version of the Hudson Yards buildings.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 10:35 AM   #5634
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PROJECT
2 World Trade Center
YEAR
2015
TYPE
Commission
CLIENT
Silverstein Properties & 21st Century
Fox / News Corp
COLLABORATORS
Adamson Associates
Jaros
Baum & Bolles
Wsp Cantor Seinuk
Van Deusen & Associates
Vidaris
Acoustic Distinctions
Gensler
Gardiner & Theobald
Ama
Dbox
Squint/opera
Radii
SIZE
260.000 m2
LOCATION
200 Greenwich Street, Nyc, Usa
STATUS
In Progress
Partners in Charge Bjarke Ingels, Thomas Christoffersen
Project Manager Ute Rinnebach
Project Designer Martin Voelkle
Project Director Douglass Alligood
Contributors Amina Blacksher, Armen Menendian, Benson Chien, Cadence Bayley,
Daniel Sundlin, Carolien Schippers, Catherine Papst, Daisy Zhong, David
Brown, David Zhai, Emily Watts, Eva Maria Mikkelsen, Hsiao Rou Huang,
Iva Ulam, Jan Leenknegt, Jennifer Kimura, Ji-Young Yoon, Jonathan Rieke,
Julie Kaufmann, Linus Saavedra, Maki Matsubayashi, Manon Otto, Maria
Sole Bravo, Otilia Pupezeanu, Paul Manhertz, Rune Hansen, Sabri Farouki,
Tammy Teng, Tiago Sa, Thomas Yaher, Yaziel Juarbe, Iben Falconer
200 Greenwich Street/2 WTC is the capstone in the redevelopment of the World Trade Center and
the final component of the revitalization of Lower Manhattan. Located at 200 Greenwich Street and
bounded by Church Street to the east, Vesey Street to the north and Fulton Street to the south, the
tower will rise to ~1,340 feet, respectfully framing the 9/11 Memorial Park alongside One WTC, 3 WTC
and 4 WTC.
The design of 2 WTC is derived from its urban context at the meeting point between two very
different neighborhoods: the Financial District with its modernist skyscrapers and TriBeCa with its
lofts and roof gardens. The design combines the unique qualities of each, melding high-rise with lowrise
and modern with historical. From the 9/11 Memorial, the building appears as a tall and slender
tower just as its three neighboring towers, while the view from TriBeCa is of a series of stepped green
terraces. The building is aligned along the axis of World Trade Center Master Planner Daniel
Libeskind’s ‘Wedge of Light’ plaza to preserve the views to St. Paul’s Chapel from the Memorial park.
The 80-plus story building will serve as the new headquarters for 21st Century Fox and News Corp
who will occupy the lower half of the tower, housing their subsidiary companies and more than 5,000
people under one roof. The upper half of the tower will be leased by Silverstein Properties to other
commercial office tenants. The needs and requirements of the media company and other tenants are
concentrated into seven separate building volumes, each tailored to their unique activities.* The
volumes of varying sizes and depths are stacked on top of each other from the largest at the base to
the smallest towards the top. The stacking creates 38,000 sf (3,530 sm) of outdoor terraces full of
lush greenery and unprecedented views of the surrounding cityscape, extending life and social
interaction outdoors. The modernist skyscraper and the contemporary interpretation of the premodern
setback merge in a new hybrid and an exciting addition to the NYC skyline.
The base of the building utilizes the maximum area of the site, housing TV studios and 100,000 sf
(9,290 sm) of retail space over multiple levels. The 38,000 sf (3,530 sm) lobby is connected to the
WTC transit hub, providing direct access to 11 subway lines and PATH trains. A public plaza at the
foot of the building and access to 350,000 sf (32,516 sm) of shopping and restaurants in the adjacent
transportation hub and concourses will ensure life and activity in and around the new World Trade
Center.
The new building will provide the physical environment for collaboration and idea sharing through the
internal mix of open workplaces, amenities and informal meeting spaces. Large stairwells between
the floors form cascading double-height communal spaces throughout the headquarters. These
continuous spaces enhance connectivity between different departments and amenities, which may
include basketball courts, a running track, a cafeteria and screening rooms. The amenity floors are
located so they can feed directly out onto the roof top parks.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 07:49 PM   #5635
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I'm assuming this is from the BIG website?
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Old February 8th, 2016, 10:36 PM   #5636
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I'm assuming this is from the BIG website?
That's right. I think it's nice to reveal the names of all the people evolved in this awesome project!
Compliments to all BIG staff members.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 04:28 AM   #5637
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Well Fox is no longer involved and thank you very much, BIG's further services here should no longer be required.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 04:31 AM   #5638
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you mean the list of people who need to be slapped... lol
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Old February 11th, 2016, 10:08 PM   #5639
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It looks like it is safe to say that latest design is no longer valid in the new circumstances.
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Old February 12th, 2016, 08:41 PM   #5640
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1340 ft.....410m
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