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Old February 22nd, 2016, 04:18 AM   #5701
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Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
Love this idea!!!
Me too, but the other guy (iiConTr0v3rSYx) lived in too deep into reality. So much so that surprise surprise, he has a point. And it makes me depressed.
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Old February 22nd, 2016, 04:45 AM   #5702
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All for a twin, just not of 1 WTC. And obviously that won't be at the WTC.

Foster's 2 WTC is my favorite building on the site, so lets build a building that can get built.
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Old February 22nd, 2016, 04:54 AM   #5703
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Originally Posted by iiConTr0v3rSYx View Post
All for a twin, just not of 1 WTC. And obviously that won't be at the WTC.

Foster's 2 WTC is my favorite building on the site, so lets build a building that can get built.

There, we are on the same page. Let us be friends, friend! BTW, my name is not Jack. I'm Deadpool, I'm a sexy mutha****a!
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Old February 22nd, 2016, 09:31 PM   #5704
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I was holding off on replying to this topic since it's been discussed many times ad nauseum, but I have a lot of strong feelings about it and want to weigh in.

The time to rebuild the Twins has passed. When the redevelopment process started, I was all in on the idea of not just rebuilding the Twins but making them taller. 1700 ft, 2000 ft, however tall was technically feasible and then going even taller, just a big **** you to al-Qaeda. But I respected the decision to build the memorial pools in the footprints of the original towers. As BV points out above, land in Manhattan is scarce to the point of being the most valuable real estate in the world, and it's already remarkable that we dedicated 8 acres of that most prime real estate to a memorial, when a more modest one could've preserved more of that land for development.

But the construction of Reflecting Absence left us with an odd L-shaped footprint on which to begin rebuilding. Configurations were limited, and the "upward spiral" was chosen as a way to maximize an awkward layout. Unfortunately, now that 1WTC, 3WTC, 4WTC and the Transit Hub are completed, the only possible locations to build a final tower (without demolishing anything that was just built) are on 2WTC's current footprint or at the PAC site .

Assuming that any tower is actually built on the 2WTC footprint, it'll be much further away than the original Twins were from one another, so...



This image is misleading. It shows the twin much closer to 1WTC than the site actually is, basically popping up right out of Greenwich street, instead of about a full width to the right. And that's not to mention that it would be directly in line with 1WTC, instead of off-set like the original Twins were. So, it might sort of look like the Twins when viewed from the North or the South, although it looks much more like a big pillared gate to me -- and from the East or West, the two towers will block each other entirely.


(original from SOM)

Basically, it looks fine, but for my money, it's an entirely different look than the Twins, which sort of defies the point (especially when the cost to reconfigure the existing 2WTC foundations are apparently extreme.)

But even more important, in terms of aesthetics, is the issue of the taper. 1WTC works from all angles because it mimics the silhouette of the originals when viewed head-on, and when viewed from one of the tapered sides, the spire gives our eyes a resolution point well above where the roof ends. Remove the spire, and you have a goofy flat-topped shape that looks like its top portion was severed. Put a spire on both towers and you've got bunny ears.


(original from Fotodujour)

You may think that looks great, but I think it's incredibly awkward. But the aesthetics are just one side of this.

While I was behind trying to rebuild the Twins in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and subsequent and recovery, we're now well into the 21st Century. As architecture around the world is progressing, it's become apparent how much a product of the mid-20th Century the Twins were. I think a big part of the drive to rebuild is mired in misplaced nostalgia for the greatness of "the American Century." The Twins are a symbol of a time when the USA was an indomitable superpower, and rebuilding them would be a blind refutation of the modern reality that the country's global influence and unquestioned dominance has been shaken.

If we want to continue to compete on the global stage, to have any hope of making the 21st Century another American Century, our civic mindset needs to be looking forward not backward. If you want examples of how well national nostalgia and sentimentality has fared, look no further than the flagging economies of the EU.

So my take is: finish the complex as designed, and encourage our developers to build for the future, not for the past. And if we adopt the right civic mindset, hopefully someone will build a project that tips its hat to the Twins, while pushing taller, leaner, more efficient, more in tune with their urban context, mixing uses and making an optimistic, forward-facing statement instead of looking backwards.


21C Twins by Marshall Knight, on Flickr
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Old February 22nd, 2016, 09:39 PM   #5705
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WAAAAY too many people with money in the us are WAAAAAY to conservative with it.
There needs to be a tax on money sitting around.
Money is like wind, you only feel it when its moving.
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Old February 22nd, 2016, 10:17 PM   #5706
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Not intending to start a new discussion about EU vs USA, but not all sucky EU countries are there because of their national nostalgia, they are where they are just for their bad economic decisions.

Also, I agree with you that a second 1WTC looks way too weird and clumsy, it would never work like the Twin Towers worked, people should just move on, the projct is good as it is, or NYC should find an investor to build new Twin Towers somewhere else, I would really like to see opinions on that.
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Old February 22nd, 2016, 10:47 PM   #5707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
I was holding off on replying to this topic since it's been discussed many times ad nauseum, but I have a lot of strong feelings about it and want to weigh in.

The time to rebuild the Twins has passed. When the redevelopment process started, I was all in on the idea of not just rebuilding the Twins but making them taller. 1700 ft, 2000 ft, however tall was technically feasible and then going even taller, just a big **** you to al-Qaeda. But I respected the decision to build the memorial pools in the footprints of the original towers. As BV points out above, land in Manhattan is scarce to the point of being the most valuable real estate in the world, and it's already remarkable that we dedicated 8 acres of that most prime real estate to a memorial, when a more modest one could've preserved more of that land for development.

But the construction of Reflecting Absence left us with an odd L-shaped footprint on which to begin rebuilding. Configurations were limited, and the "upward spiral" was chosen as a way to maximize an awkward layout. Unfortunately, now that 1WTC, 3WTC, 4WTC and the Transit Hub are completed, the only possible locations to build a final tower (without demolishing anything that was just built) are on 2WTC's current footprint or at the PAC site .

Assuming that any tower is actually built on the 2WTC footprint, it'll be much further away than the original Twins were from one another, so...

This image is misleading. It shows the twin much closer to 1WTC than the site actually is, basically popping up right out of Greenwich street, instead of about a full width to the right. And that's not to mention that it would be directly in line with 1WTC, instead of off-set like the original Twins were. So, it might sort of look like the Twins when viewed from the North or the South, although it looks much more like a big pillared gate to me -- and from the East or West, the two towers will block each other entirely.

Basically, it looks fine, but for my money, it's an entirely different look than the Twins, which sort of defies the point (especially when the cost to reconfigure the existing 2WTC foundations are apparently extreme.)

But even more important, in terms of aesthetics, is the issue of the taper. 1WTC works from all angles because it mimics the silhouette of the originals when viewed head-on, and when viewed from one of the tapered sides, the spire gives our eyes a resolution point well above where the roof ends. Remove the spire, and you have a goofy flat-topped shape that looks like its top portion was severed. Put a spire on both towers and you've got bunny ears.

You may think that looks great, but I think it's incredibly awkward. But the aesthetics are just one side of this.

While I was behind trying to rebuild the Twins in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and subsequent and recovery, we're now well into the 21st Century. As architecture around the world is progressing, it's become apparent how much a product of the mid-20th Century the Twins were. I think a big part of the drive to rebuild is mired in misplaced nostalgia for the greatness of "the American Century." The Twins are a symbol of a time when the USA was an indomitable superpower, and rebuilding them would be a blind refutation of the modern reality that the country's global influence and unquestioned dominance has been shaken.

If we want to continue to compete on the global stage, to have any hope of making the 21st Century another American Century, our civic mindset needs to be looking forward not backward. If you want examples of how well national nostalgia and sentimentality has fared, look no further than the flagging economies of the EU.

So my take is: finish the complex as designed, and encourage our developers to build for the future, not for the past. And if we adopt the right civic mindset, hopefully someone will build a project that tips its hat to the Twins, while pushing taller, leaner, more efficient, more in tune with their urban context, mixing uses and making an optimistic, forward-facing statement instead of looking backwards.

Yes, I know. I recently made a double check on the ground plan for the new complex. Making twin freedom towers diagonally like the old ones is impossible, because the path trains are underneath. So I think changing the area where the building is is impossible now.

I apologize for causing this pointless conversation on this thread. I hope somebody out there who is rich (very rich) builds the twin towers. I mean, they are rebuilding the Titanic, and that was a tragedy. Maybe by making new twin towers, it would at the same time pay homage to a remembrance of Sept 11 2001 on the observatory. And on the observatory (the south tower roof) there would be glass panels all around with the names of the victims imprinted on it.
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Old February 23rd, 2016, 04:00 AM   #5708
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Can you guys stop this twin bs?
One WTC's design doest work as twins at all, it was made to be a singular peak not a duplicate. All these photoshop images with 2 Tower Ones look like crap.
The site will look more dynamic and versatile with either of the new T2 designs.
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Old February 23rd, 2016, 04:08 AM   #5709
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Originally Posted by generalscarr View Post
Can you guys stop this twin bs?
One WTC's design doest work as twins at all, it was made to be a singular peak not a duplicate. All these photoshop images with 2 Tower Ones look like crap.
The site will look more dynamic and versatile with either of the new T2 designs.
I just ended the subject with my last post because the others have a good point, now you are bringing up the "twin towers bs"
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Old February 24th, 2016, 01:44 AM   #5710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalscarr View Post
Can you guys stop this twin bs?
One WTC's design doest work as twins at all, it was made to be a singular peak not a duplicate. All these photoshop images with 2 Tower Ones look like crap.
The site will look more dynamic and versatile with either of the new T2 designs.
Thank you, but I do like tower ones design
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Old February 24th, 2016, 05:14 PM   #5711
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Originally Posted by JuanPaulo View Post
We might just have......


January 15, 2016

Fox, News Corp. back out of move to 2 World Trade Center

The Rupert Murdoch media companies will remain in midtown Manhattan

21st Century Fox and News Corp., the mass media companies owned by Rupert Murdoch, have pulled out of a lease to anchor a new office tower at the World Trade Center—scrapping a multibillion dollar deal that would have solidified the site as a nexus for media and creative businesses.

The companies backed out of a deal to take more than 1 million square feet at 2 World Trade Center, a 2.8 million-square-foot, 110-story tower designed by the star architect Bjarke Ingels. The sudden reversal is a blow to Silverstein Properties, the developer planning to build 2 World Trade Center. The firm, founded by Larry Silverstein, finished building 4 World Trade Center, a 72-story, 2.5 million-square-foot office tower more than a year ago and is in the process of erecting 3 World Trade Center, an 80-story, 2.8 million-square-foot office building.

"After much careful consideration we have decided to maintain our New York headquarters and other business operations at 1211 and 1185 Avenue of the Americas," according to a joint statement released by 21st Century Fox and News Corp. "We have extension options that could continue our occupancy in our current sites through 2025."

Find the full article here:

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...d-trade-center
What a great news
I like Foster's design more.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 06:05 PM   #5712
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tbhh a set of twins that would exist and be in any shape or form akin to the old towers would make NY look so ugly :/
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Old February 24th, 2016, 08:12 PM   #5713
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The new complex makes NY look ugly.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #5714
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...Childish comment..

Last edited by BLACK DAHLIA; February 28th, 2016 at 08:07 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 08:22 PM   #5715
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The new complex makes NY look ugly.
so why are you reading this tread then?
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Old February 24th, 2016, 08:29 PM   #5716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
The new complex makes NY look ugly.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with that.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 10:09 PM   #5717
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
The new complex makes NY look ugly.
I understand what you are saying. It does feel like these buildings don't seem to 'fit in' New York. But soon it will eventually get some used to, like every other building. Personally, I think the twin towers should make a comeback. It's been a while, and the fear has died down and people are moving on.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 10:30 PM   #5718
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I'll have to respectfully disagree with that.
I agree with weidncol
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Old February 24th, 2016, 10:54 PM   #5719
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Quote:
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The new complex makes NY look ugly.
It's not even close to being finished, though.
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Old February 25th, 2016, 04:58 AM   #5720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackUnblock View Post
I don't care if you are 19
You should. First because you were the one that started talking about how as a 15 year old kid, you loved the old towers. Second because I'm an architecture student, so I might know just a little bit more about it since I'm receiving classes about all this.

Quote:
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I do not know the future and the twin towers could be rebuilt in the future.
Literally nobody would waste money on that. They won't even spend it on Foster's perfect 2WTC, why would they waste it on something that has no sense, would generate more expenditures than income, could be considered disrespectful my many people, would have virtually no tenants, force to demolish something they just built... There's no reason to build it.

Quote:
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I do not know the future and the twin towers could be rebuilt in the future. They could build a twin to 1WTC yet again we don't know the future.
"We don't know the future" great argument. Do you think the same about Chicago Spire, or any other project that was at least proposed? What you're talking about is just some people's crazy idea influenced by emotions. So no, it will never happen. Stop deluding yourself.

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It won't look horrible. I won't get over it, and do not tell me to. Because you do not know how I feel about this. Have a nice day.
Yes it will. The project looked great without needing to add or take anything from it. Look what happened when they changed Foster's 2WTC. They ruined the whole complex. You should get over it because you're a kid, it's annoying and I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks like this. Nobody cares about how you feel, be realistic.
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