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Old August 19th, 2016, 09:40 PM   #5961
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I doubt if it becomes ugly. But if so, the previous tower didn't belong to WTC complex. It's possible not count it to the WTC complex or make BIG's tower smaller.
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Old September 1st, 2016, 03:32 PM   #5962
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People who say anything other than this being godawful beyond description are surely on one drug or another.

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Originally Posted by streetscapeer View Post
All posted by Thomas_Koloski on Yimbyforums and on Yimby

A single tower may not be able to "ruin" a skyline, but definitely can do a lot of damage to it.
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Old September 1st, 2016, 06:06 PM   #5963
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oh god that looks HORRIBLE. Please please please Larry for the sake of the most iconic skyline to ever exist...DO NOT build BIGS 2WTC.

We either need Fosters beauty or hopefully a brand new design that doesn't look like complete sh*t!
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Old September 1st, 2016, 06:08 PM   #5964
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This chirade could very well be looked back in time as quite symbolic of the decline of the US especially if the result is a poor quality design. If this was China or Dubai they would have built this tower ten years ago. As it is i'll be surprised if this tower is complete to even mark the 20th anniversary of 9/11. So much faffing about its unbelievable.
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Old September 1st, 2016, 06:10 PM   #5965
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 01:39 AM   #5966
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Originally Posted by droneriot View Post
People who say anything other than this being godawful beyond description are surely on one drug or another.



A single tower may not be able to "ruin" a skyline, but definitely can do a lot of damage to it.
YUCK!

That's probably my least favorite angle which was Foster's best. What a travesty compared to the original design. The day construction starts on BIG's 2WTC is the day I give up on this complex for good.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:28 PM   #5967
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This tower is a lovely reminder of the huge postmodern movement that moves swiftly and smoothly in New York for awhile. It does look alot like Deconstructivism which is part of the postmodern movement. Well most of the users should be very happy now, since we all know how many discussions there are on the forums about how modernism failed, or whatever.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 04:13 PM   #5968
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I respect Thomas Koloski work but this is the worst rendering you could find..
One has to wonder why many foremost architects and critics endorsed Big's design:hard to believe that all of these people are"on drug".
I guess many here are simply jealous about Ingels success:the guy is cute,young,talented,rich and famous;he is also very mediatized and losers focus easily their hatred and negativity on him...
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 04:33 PM   #5969
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Oh, I don't want to be misunderstood. I really don't have anything against the guy or his architectural group. My point is that obviously there are a lot of people who dislike modernism a lot, so maybe this is the result, a lot of postmodern stuff. Doesn't mean that this is some absolute truth, just my point of view, it's not just his tower we've seen a lot of postmodern buildings going up, so who knows maybe that's trendy and modernism will be forgotten in no time, just like most of the users would like.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 04:51 PM   #5970
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No offense!..I was not thinking about you ARCHITECTURE LOVER:it's always a pleasure to read you as you are not dogmatic and immature.You also have a true sensibility,intuition and passion.
People should have more respect imo for the one who reshaped midtown west skyline(W57)which historically has been limited by zoning,resulting in structures that are not impactful.
The way the building rises out of the ground and penetrates the surrending context is unique and inspiring.Ingels design for 2WTC has the same vision;can we blame an architect who reinvents architecture and cares way more about NY than his ego??

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Old September 2nd, 2016, 08:24 PM   #5971
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Thank you, if it wasn't for you I wouldn't have known about the architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and they are behind some of the projects that I like the most.
About VIA 57 West, at first I liked the overall concept, but I wasn't very happy with the final realization (the frames of the windows, precisely).
Most of the time the users on this forum complain about modernism and how uninspiring it is. I think that most of the time people confuse sophisticated and elegant with boring and uninspiring, therefor I think the result is the one that we see, and it's not only in New York, there really seems to be some sort of rise of the postmodern architecture in the last decade.
I don't think we should blame anyone, it's all a matter of perception. I am a huge fan of Foster's proposal, because I think that his design cooperated with the rest of the towers.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 10:44 PM   #5972
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WTC 2 more known lately as the "Leaning Tower" is doing more damage then I thought it might be doing. This is NOT restoring a Skyline it is ruin the Skyline of Lower Manhattan. Foster originally design was a modern masterpiece but NO thats not what we will go for we will take this Danish BIG's design who has not a clue what New York needs and wants.
Can someone please tell me from start til the end WHY Fosters design was scrapped?
One more thing why not just build a replica of the WTC 1 Tower? I Think that would have been the best choice and Fosters the second best.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 10:59 PM   #5973
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Fox specifically chose BIG to design a tower with open floor space, hence stacked boxes.

Building another 1 WTC is not possible and wouldn't be an economical smart thing to do.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 11:01 PM   #5974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Boy View Post
WTC 2 more known lately as the "Leaning Tower" is doing more damage then I thought it might be doing. This is NOT restoring a Skyline it is ruin the Skyline of Lower Manhattan. Foster origianally design was a modern masterpiece but NO thats not what we will go for we will take this Danish BIG's design who has not a clue what New York needs and wants.
Can someone please tell me from start til the end WHY Fosters design was scrapped?
One more thing why not just build a replica of the WTC 1 Tower? I Think that would have been the best choice and Fosters the second best.
Silverstein Properties, the owner of the WTC complex, was struggling to find an investor for Foster's 2 WTC. (Un)fortunately, 21st Century Fox and News Corp announced their intention to move their headquarters to 2 WTC. Foster's skyscraper was intended to be home of financial firms, not media corporations, so Rupert Murdoch hired BIG to redesign the tower.

Answering to your second question, a twin to 1 WTC would look out of place, at least in my opinion. 1 WTC was designed to be a statement, something that would stand out from the rest of the skyline. A twin without a spire would degrade its position, at least for me. Also, it would be too expensive.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 11:02 PM   #5975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Architecture lover View Post
Oh, I don't want to be misunderstood. I really don't have anything against the guy or his architectural group. My point is that obviously there are a lot of people who dislike modernism a lot, so maybe this is the result, a lot of postmodern stuff. Doesn't mean that this is some absolute truth, just my point of view, it's not just his tower we've seen a lot of postmodern buildings going up, so who knows maybe that's trendy and modernism will be forgotten in no time, just like most of the users would like.
Just because it is modernist doesn't automatically make it "good". Modernist architecture can be kitsch and ugly too. This is pure "modernist kitsch"--the leaning tower of boxes. It's just plain ugly. Lacks elegance and finesse, and it is literally "crippled". It looks like a sad old man hunched over and ready to fall over. The 9/11 site doesn't need a "crippled memorial" but rather something strong and tall to tower over the location's past tragedy. (pun intended)
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 11:03 PM   #5976
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OMG 2 WTC is sooooo ugly
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 11:12 PM   #5977
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Yea, I'm thinking Hudson Yards too. 2WTC has some serious competition. The longer it takes to get off the ground, the shorter/less inspired this design will likely become.
Not necessarily. It's really just a matter of finding a tenant. Both the BIG and Foster designs are more than suitable and are both likely developed enough to where it wouldn't take much to get the ball rolling. I believe Gensler had done a bunch of the interior development of BIG's tower. Add to that Larry Silverstein has been a decent patron to good architecture lately, so long as another 7 WTC doesn't go up it should be fine.

I think a lot of the hoopla over BIG's design is overstated. It gets the job done. It's not bad architecture, I think the issue is that Foster's was a direct response to 9/11 where Bjarke's is clearly envisioned 15 years later. It's kind of post-rationalized with a different set of assumptions than the original towers. As such it maybe might be more appropriate midtown than at WTC which is a reasonable complaint. But it, by far, is not the worst building to ever go up in NYC and it fits decently within the composition (some of these renderings make it look ridiculous and its my understanding that the revised building silhouette is less lean-y). Is it better than Foster's? Probably not, but consider someone could've easily proposed a 56 Leonard at that spot which would've been a disaster. I think if Larry had his druthers he'd probably go with SOM (or maybe have his new friend Robert AM Stern design something glassy like Comcast Center in Philly).

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Old September 3rd, 2016, 12:05 AM   #5978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldBlackMarble View Post
Just because it is modernist doesn't automatically make it "good". Modernist architecture can be kitsch and ugly too. This is pure "modernist kitsch"--the leaning tower of boxes. It's just plain ugly. Lacks elegance and finesse, and it is literally "crippled". It looks like a sad old man hunched over and ready to fall over. The 9/11 site doesn't need a "crippled memorial" but rather something strong and tall to tower over the location's past tragedy. (pun intended)
Shall we get into this discussion once again? Did you even read my whole post before replying? This building looks alot like deconstructivism (the leaning boxes that you mention) which is part of the postmodern architecture/movement. That's why I said that people who complained about 'plain' and 'uninspiring' modernism should be very happy with this new design. And once again this is not some absolute truth, just my point of view, you can love postmodern as much as you want and you can dislike modernism as much as you want.
I don't consider modernism as boring, or uninspiring, because I appreciate it and unlike others I know how much modernism gave to the world of architecture with its clean lines and functionality. Do you understand now?
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 12:32 AM   #5979
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That whole arguments is basically like "I love all sitcoms and dislike all crime dramas" or "I love all jazz and dislike all rock", as if styles are uniform in their quality and individual creators of art are irrelevant to the quality of what they create.

The reality is that the classification is just there to categorise the styles, but in terms of quality it always depends on who's making it, not in which style. A good architect can make everything good, a bad architect can make everything bad.
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 12:40 AM   #5980
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Well as much as I know modernism succeeded in its cause to make buildings functional in so many examples, there might be some bad of course just as you say it all depends on the architect.
On the other hand postmodern says that modernism culminated in a situation where we forgot how to design a classical building, and not only classical, but most of the time we forgot how to design a building that's interesting since modernism is too plain, ordinary. Therefore it's main cause should be to bring back classical roots, or just buildings with interesting shapes. I am not sure if it succeeds in this cause.
Edit: I'm aware that this whole etc. vs etc. thing is quite boring, or even tiring, but I am not the one who started the thread: has modernism failed? (in the section architecture)
I am just here to state the opposite.

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