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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:24 AM   #6221
Hudson11
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Originally Posted by weidncol View Post
At this point, I'm starting to think nothing will go through for a while... all has been quite on the frontier, unfortunately.
not for the lack of trying - Silverstein and the PA have been filling the other towers and Hudson Yards has been on fire. If they built 2 WTC on spec years ago maybe things would have been different.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 08:27 PM   #6222
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I think they should keep the design similar to Foster's and respect the current foundation already set up because I really just want this thing finished. I don't care what goes there, just make it look elegant and fit the skyline but come on, it's been 16 years, I understand the complexities of the engineering that had to be done, but IMO, it's a poor excuse. The PA and Silverstein bickered for years on who should build what and wasted precious time. Then it's 2015, changed the entire design for Tower 2 because of Fox and then before the deal could be finalized, they backed out. It's ridiculous. Just build the Tower, you have the money, and tenants will come. They will get filled up eventually like the Twins did back then. The Port is loaded, the toll/tax payers are doing all the heavy lifting, so you might as well just finish it. It shows weakness when 16 years have elapsed and the complex isn't even 100% completed yet.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 02:46 AM   #6223
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I think they should keep the design similar to Foster's and respect the current foundation already set up because I really just want this thing finished. I don't care what goes there, just make it look elegant and fit the skyline but come on, it's been 16 years, I understand the complexities of the engineering that had to be done, but IMO, it's a poor excuse. The PA and Silverstein bickered for years on who should build what and wasted precious time. Then it's 2015, changed the entire design for Tower 2 because of Fox and then before the deal could be finalized, they backed out. It's ridiculous. Just build the Tower, you have the money, and tenants will come. They will get filled up eventually like the Twins did back then. The Port is loaded, the toll/tax payers are doing all the heavy lifting, so you might as well just finish it. It shows weakness when 16 years have elapsed and the complex isn't even 100% completed yet.
New Yorker2009, I could not have said it better myself. Larry, and Port Authority: BUILD THE DAMN TOWER ALREADY. THE HELL WITH NEEDING AN ANCHOR TENANT.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 03:07 AM   #6224
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This whole site should have been privatized and zoned for mixed use development back in 2002 after it was cleaned up. It would have been developed years ago during the last real estate bubble. Two real estate bubbles later and it is still incomplete. The gap in the skyline is a disgrace.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 04:21 AM   #6225
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This whole site should have been privatized and zoned for mixed use development back in 2002 after it was cleaned up. It would have been developed years ago during the last real estate bubble. Two real estate bubbles later and it is still incomplete. The gap in the skyline is a disgrace.
I heartily concur. Regardless of how it's financed, BUILD TOWER 2 ALREADY. IT IS WAY PAST TIME TO DO SO. Preferably Lord Norman Foster's original design, too, not that hideous thing by B.I.G., but at this point even that's better than nothing.
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Old August 5th, 2017, 01:19 AM   #6226
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I wonder if the lot for 2 WTC is big enough to support NYC's first mega-tall.

It looks bigger than the 1 WTC lot.

Although it might require tearing our the existing pilings and ground infrastructure, a 2000+ footer there would make up for the long wait.

It would change the vision for the site but might look OK with the existing towers balancing it out on either side.
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Old August 5th, 2017, 11:45 PM   #6227
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Maybe actually see the WTC in person until you judge it. The cladding on the towers look more high quality than any other glass clad towers (especially 3 and 4 WTC). Also remember the original WTC had 3 skyscrapers, this complex will have 5 (maybe even 6). I do agree the buildings were value engineered and yes that should have been prevented. However, I do not see how the Twin Towers had more character, they were even more boxy and bland than any buildings in the new complex, the only reason people liked them was their height. (I liked them as well but the architecture of the towers was really not great). Just look at the BOK tower in Oklahoma, it was modeled after the Twin Towers but people don't like or know it because it is not tall.
I can't say I'd agree with this. Yamasaki developed/designed One M&T Bank Plaza in Buffalo before the Twin towers and this is what it looks like:



A lot of people celebrate the building as an example of good architecture (but maybe that's just on a local scale).

I also find it interesting that Tulsa has a building taller than the tallest building in Buffalo.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 01:08 AM   #6228
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The Foster design should be built for civic and aesthetic reasons alone, but I think it's unlikely as it is geared towards financial firms (trading floors) who seem to prefer HY right now. Larry is stubborn I guess. I can't understand why he is holding out.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 02:35 AM   #6229
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The Foster design should be built for civic and aesthetic reasons alone, but I think it's unlikely as it is geared towards financial firms (trading floors) who seem to prefer HY right now. Larry is stubborn I guess. I can't understand why he is holding out.
I'm puzzled by this. What exactly do media companies want that Foster's tower doesn't provide?

If we're talking studio space than that doesn't apply to all media companies as we've seen with the tenants in towers 1 and 3. Companies like Condé Nast and GroupM didn't have any issues/need for major studio space in their buildings and they were designed at the same time as Foster's tower. 20th Century/Fox News may have had certain requirements but they're out of the picture now.

I think it's dependent on the tenant at this point and I don't see why a prospective media company couldn't make use of Foster's tower with it's current specifications or possibly tweak it for their needs.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 12:15 PM   #6230
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I dunno why they don't just build the lower part like the Big design then top it out with the original design.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 03:15 PM   #6231
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I don't fully understand why this isn't u/c yet if the only issue is finding tenants. Of course Silverstein doesn't want to end up with and empty tower but remember, the original Twin Towers were built during the height of NYC's bankruptcy crisis and there was not a lot of demand for offices. And look, by the time they were destroyed they were constantly 99% leased, so wouldn't it make sense to build this tower and then wait for tenants. Because I'm sure it must be quite expensive maintaining the already built foundation for Tower 2 so that the skyscraper can be built as quickly as possible (I'm assuming they're maintaining the foundation right?)
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Old August 10th, 2017, 03:20 PM   #6232
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They should build it regardless because of it's status being 2WTC so its finished by 2021.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #6233
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Silverstein is obviously holding out for top dollar. Can you say greed? This tower is going to take a massive tenant to get underway and Larry is losing all the biz to HY because it's the better location overall and at a good price. It has the stuff that the workforce want - better open space, proximity to Penn Station, etc. The workforce/corporations obviously prefers HY. Larry should lower his demands or he may not see it built.

Last edited by JohnDee; August 10th, 2017 at 07:43 PM.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 08:26 PM   #6234
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After years of false starts and debates over which design will rise, and which is superior, I've had kind of a startling realization: no matter which of the currently proposed versions of 2WTC rises, I will be disappointed.

When the original World Trade Center went up, there was nothing like it in the world -- it was taller, larger, more impressive than virtually any structure built before it. But by the earliest this new complex could be completed, 50 years will have passed since the originals were constructed, and we'll have built something scarcely more awe-inspiring than went up in the 1970s.

Meanwhile, there have been huge advances in engineering, material science and design, particularly in the years since the Twins were destroyed. Forget about Dubai and Shanghai, even right in Manhattan, several towers (CPT, Steinway, 432 Park, 80 South) are already slated to be taller, more radical, more 21st Century than anything planned to rise here.

So, while I understand the frustration around here, and the mentality to just get something built already... I've actually started to hope that neither tower gets built. That Silverstein misses this cycle entirely, so the site (and really the whole complex) can be re-envisioned by a more ambitious developer, with 2WTC as the centerpiece. Because NYC deserves more than 20th Century ambitions.


Original photo credit: Xi (Zoran) He @v_baobab_v
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Old August 14th, 2017, 11:31 PM   #6235
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Yeh what they should have done is have two buildings the same height as what the twins were but then having a third like 2000ft to top it off in between them. Kind of like we rebuilt two towers but we added a third which is mega!
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Old August 15th, 2017, 03:40 AM   #6236
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As a New Yorker that was around before and during 9/11, I'll be happy with either one. It really pained me to see the large gap in the Lower Manhattan skyline for over 10 years. As much as I loved the twins and would've loved to see them rebuilt, watching 1 WTC rise and close the gap was a really great feeling. And it is great that 1 WTC is taller than the twins. I do agree that it doesn't quite feel complete yet though. I get where people are coming from since we all were so used to there being TWO giant towers there. But with 4 WTC and 3 WTC, it is starting to look more complete. I am optimistic about either 2 WTC design. I think we should all just wait and see how it looks in person when it is finally all over with.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 06:17 PM   #6237
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Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
After years of false starts and debates over which design will rise, and which is superior, I've had kind of a startling realization: no matter which of the currently proposed versions of 2WTC rises, I will be disappointed.

When the original World Trade Center went up, there was nothing like it in the world -- it was taller, larger, more impressive than virtually any structure built before it. But by the earliest this new complex could be completed, 50 years will have passed since the originals were constructed, and we'll have built something scarcely more awe-inspiring than went up in the 1970s.

Meanwhile, there have been huge advances in engineering, material science and design, particularly in the years since the Twins were destroyed. Forget about Dubai and Shanghai, even right in Manhattan, several towers (CPT, Steinway, 432 Park, 80 South) are already slated to be taller, more radical, more 21st Century than anything planned to rise here.

So, while I understand the frustration around here, and the mentality to just get something built already... I've actually started to hope that neither tower gets built. That Silverstein misses this cycle entirely, so the site (and really the whole complex) can be re-envisioned by a more ambitious developer, with 2WTC as the centerpiece. Because NYC deserves more than 20th Century ambitions.
Agreed, so why not build the old NYSE proposal (raised 200 feet or so to reach 2000+ ft) on the lot of 2 WTC. It would look like the big brother of 1 WTC whose design was likely copied from the 1990s era Kohn Pedersen Fox design for NYSE tower.

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Old August 18th, 2017, 06:41 PM   #6238
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Wow, 1 WTC is suspiciously similar to that. Just so it wouldn't dwarf it, maybe they could go 1776 roof height, and that spire could hit 2,000 ft.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 07:46 PM   #6239
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Wow, 1 WTC is suspiciously similar to that. Just so it wouldn't dwarf it, maybe they could go 1776 roof height, and that spire could hit 2,000 ft.
this particular rendering for a NY Stock Exchange complex building showed a roof height of 1,792 feet with 140 floors and 3 1/2 million square feet of office space. Not sure how tall the antenna was planned for.

No doubt that it inspired the design of 1 WTC.

Marshall is right, if we want lower Manhattan to remain the focal point for the biggest skyscrapers in the western hemisphere long term, something much taller needs to be built down there whether its at the 2 WTC site or somewhere nearby.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 03:26 AM   #6240
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Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
After years of false starts and debates over which design will rise, and which is superior, I've had kind of a startling realization: no matter which of the currently proposed versions of 2WTC rises, I will be disappointed.

When the original World Trade Center went up, there was nothing like it in the world -- it was taller, larger, more impressive than virtually any structure built before it. But by the earliest this new complex could be completed, 50 years will have passed since the originals were constructed, and we'll have built something scarcely more awe-inspiring than went up in the 1970s.

Meanwhile, there have been huge advances in engineering, material science and design, particularly in the years since the Twins were destroyed. Forget about Dubai and Shanghai, even right in Manhattan, several towers (CPT, Steinway, 432 Park, 80 South) are already slated to be taller, more radical, more 21st Century than anything planned to rise here.

So, while I understand the frustration around here, and the mentality to just get something built already... I've actually started to hope that neither tower gets built. That Silverstein misses this cycle entirely, so the site (and really the whole complex) can be re-envisioned by a more ambitious developer, with 2WTC as the centerpiece. Because NYC deserves more than 20th Century ambitions.


Original photo credit: Xi (Zoran) He @v_baobab_v
had to sign in just to like it
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