NZ | Population Statistics Thread

[cambennett]

Thing is here we are not talking about a union situation like the EU. What we are talking about is NZ gradually being absorbed into Australia, this would make bugger all difference to Australia but would be a sad day for NZ IMO.

Ok we are a tiny country but surely we have more ambition for the place than to just become a de facto state of Australia dont we?

I mean once we head down that road we are no longer calling our own shots.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by cambennett

Thing is here we are not talking about a union situation like the EU. What we are talking about is NZ gradually being absorbed into Australia, this would make bugger all difference to Australia but would be a sad day for NZ IMO.

Ok we are a tiny country but surely we have more ambition for the place than to just become a de facto state of Australia dont we?

I mean once we head down that road we are no longer calling our own shots.

Not being as aware as you guys down there about the situation, I had no idea that the discussion was actually for absorbing NZ into Australia. This should never happen of cause. A union is one thing, absorbing into a larger entity amounts to a loss of identity.

Just like here, I don't think I'd ever find someone from the UK who would want their country absorbed into France or Germany but there are a growing number of people that now consider themselves "Europen" as in a single EU entity.

[Milan Luka]

Originally Posted by Justme

Not being as aware as you guys down there about the situation, I had no idea that the discussion was actually for absorbing NZ into Australia. This should never happen of cause. A union is one thing, absorbing into a larger entity amounts to a loss of identity.

Just like here, I don't think I'd ever find someone from the UK who would want their country absorbed into France or Germany but there are a growing number of people that now consider themselves "Europen" as in a single EU entity.

No need to worry Justme-I was scratching my head wondering where the idea of absorption had come from too. Apart from on here I hadnt heard of it ever being on the cards.

Excuse my French but fuck that. Nobody on either side wants it and I doubt it would happen anyway. It would be a political suicide move.

And on a population thread, I agree with your previous comments regarding the urban experience that is Frankfurt and how it should be emulated in this part of the world. High population doesnt have to mean loss of quality of life. Done correctly an extra 2-4 million Kiwis should NOT have anything other than a positive impact on the nation. Economically, cultural and environmentally.

[cambennett]

Originally Posted by Justme

Not being as aware as you guys down there about the situation, I had no idea that the discussion was actually for absorbing NZ into Australia. This should never happen of cause. A union is one thing, absorbing into a larger entity amounts to a loss of identity.

Just like here, I don't think I'd ever find someone from the UK who would want their country absorbed into France or Germany but there are a growing number of people that now consider themselves "Europen" as in a single EU entity.

Sorry to confuse you, no it has not been discussed down here and i was not talking officially. Probably guilty of poor choice of words.

Just to clarify what i was trying to say is that a union like in Europe would not happen in my opinion. We would not have a common currency like the euro we would have to adopt Australia's dollar which would mean our monetary policy would be dictated by Australia's reserve bank.

What i was saying was that that is kind of the first step to becoming a "de facto" state of Australia because you are handing control of that over to another country. I'm not saying anyone has suggested we actually, officially become a state.

[Justme]

no worries.

It probably doesn't make as much sense anyway, being two island groups 3000km or so apart.

It works well in Europe because most of it is bordering nations. I find it most amazing when there are urban area's right at the border. Strasbourg is a great example. The urban area crosses into Germany which has the town called Kehl. All that seperates them is a river.

In the past, there were strict border controls, passports, customs etc between the two. Now, there is nothing. You can walk across the bridge like walking across a bridge in Hamilton. On one side the language is German, and on the other it's French, though all locals can speak either these days. The currency is the same of cause, and many people commute across the river to work, shop etc. I love the little things about this urban lifestyle. It maybe one urban area, but of cause the culture is still different on either side, especially with food. When a German from Kehl wants a complete change in their supermarket shopping, they just drive an extra 5minutes and the supermarket is now French, with all their different cheeses, salami's etc. When a French guy wan't a change in his local bar scene, they just pop over the river and the German bars are completely different in style and beer - an all authentic, which really makes a difference. Any city can have a French bar, but it doesn't really feel like a French bar when you sit in a real one that is several hundred years old and everyone is actually speaking French in it.

Anyway, sorry for getting off topic here. I just started to think about that and realized that it was one of those things that I really love. I may drive down this weekend actually. Strasbourg is only 1.5hours away from Frankfurt if the traffic isn't too bad. I could do with a complete change of scenary :O)

[cambennett]

It probably doesn't make as much sense anyway, being two island groups 3000km or so apart.

Yeah that's what makes me wonder about the no passport common border thing. You have two countries so far apart with two different eco systems how could you run that will no border control. Particularly here where argriculture is so important.

As for the lifestyle in Europe, yeah that is one of the major drawbacks of living in NZ, the isolation and the fact the nearest country is 3,000 km away and not that different culturally anyway. One of the things i did love about living over there was having all of those different cultures and countries on your doorstep. I do miss that.

[greenwelly]

Originally Posted by Urbania

You might be interested in the latest figures from across the pond. Looks like Oz is going through a third-world style growth spurt...up 439,100 people in the 12 months to 31 March 2009.

If you actually look behind the headline, you find that most of this growth is migration, the natural population increase is relatively static, but the booming economy continues to suck in more migrants.

This is only a projection, and I suspect that the great recession might kick this estimate around a bit, but until the next census in 2011 it is probably the best guess.

[KingKong1]

Where do these huge numbers of immigrants settling in Australia come from?

[Ironmanfood]

Christmas Island?

[KingKong1]

Christmas Island crabs are taking over the mainland!

[KingKong1]

The locals are fucked!

[Urbania]

Originally Posted by greenwelly

If you actually look behind the headline, you find that most of this growth is migration, the natural population increase is relatively static, but the booming economy continues to suck in more migrants.

This is only a projection, and I suspect that the great recession might kick this estimate around a bit, but until the next census in 2011 it is probably the best guess.

Look behind what headline? I'm fully aware that a majority of this growth comes from migration. And a significant proportion of those migration numbers come from international students, which is why the March quarter figures have a tendency to skew higher than other quarters...

[Eco-rat]

But NZ is such a lovely place, I don't know why you are all leaving and why so many over here.

What would it take to really build up NZ population, especially Christchurch and Dunedin which look like they could do with some extra?

[metroman]

If some of the infrastructure projects being proposed down south aswell as the urea plant, dairy expansion are anything to go by we maybe on the right path,

[jafa]

Originally Posted by Eco-rat

I don't know why you are all leaving and why so many over here.

Sigh.

Not all NZers are leaving. Yes, a lot of NZers, including myself, now live in Australia. But there are still 4 million that haven't moved. That's 1/5 of the population of Australia, which seems to me to be about right.

It's not hard to work out why so many come. Use your brain. Job opportunities, better salaries, weather, need for a change etc.

[Richard7666]

Originally Posted by Eco-rat

But NZ is such a lovely place, I don't know why you are all leaving and why so many over here.

What would it take to really build up NZ population, especially Christchurch and Dunedin which look like they could do with some extra?

Global-warming induced water shortages in Queensland and a misfired Chinese nuke hitting Sydney would probably help a lot =)

Seriously though, people leave because of money; pay rates are higher in Aus. Same reason people leave Tasmania.

[NZer]

I agree. It all comes back to cash.

[KingKong1]

The Hays Annual Salary Survey gives a very good snapshot of pay differences between Australia and NZ.

http://www.hays.com.au/salary/

I think if you are in a good profession then there is not much difference. I earn about the same as my friends living in Australia, but that wouldn't be the case if they stayed in NZ.

[city_thing]

Originally Posted by KingKong1

Where do these huge numbers of immigrants settling in Australia come from?

There have been a few articles in the papers today, as we hit the 22 million mark sometime around 1pm EST (seriously, why pin it down to the exact hour?). From memory, the article said we received 406,000 migrants, as well as the lowest ever death rate and the highest ever birth rate. It took us 2 years to add another million on, and Melbourne's still tipped to be the biggest city sometime around 2025.

[Blah]

Pay in IT between NZ and Aus isn't much different. Apparently it's quite big in some industries though.