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Old December 1st, 2008, 06:20 AM   #101
phillybud
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[QUOTE=salaverryo;28712880]
Quote:
Originally Posted by salaverryo View Post
Those buildings look so ghostly because for the most part they are unoccupied. The great majority of apartments in them are vacant. Can you imagine? Row after row of residential towers and most of them empty. Creepy, man, creepy!
The photos are awesome, though.
I vehemently disagree with you. Have you ever been to Miami? Do you know what you are talking about? I lived in Miami for 25 years of my life and still have family there so I visit every year. Yes, many of the buildings are brand new and the tenants haven't all moved in yet.

I assure you that Miami is rocking, lively, glamorous city. It is a new city and the buildings are clean (not like, alas!, Philadelphia). What makes it a little differant from Las Vegas or Dubai is - believe it or not! - the architecture is wee bit more restrained and conservative, not quite as "fancy" or garish as those other two cities. Also Miami is tropical and green, it is not located in a dusty desert. Remember "Florida" means 'feast of flowers'. Most of the residential neighborhoods are quite boring and banal, however. But much of Miami - Fairchild Tropical Gardens, Vizcaya, Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, the islands in Biscayne Bay - is stunningly beautiful! That's why so many millionaires and billionaires choose to live there!!!
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Old December 1st, 2008, 06:56 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philadweller View Post
Of course Miami looks like a real city. Imagine what people thought of Manhattan in the 1920's when the buildings were new.

I am disturbed how Florida puts strip malls at the base of its skyscrapers. This photo shows everything that is wrong with most Florida zoning. You would never see this in Manhattan, London, Paris or Amsterdam.
image hosted on flickr

The urban planners are absolutely inefficient. Florida architecture for the most part is some of the brutalist and uninspired architecture around. Aside from Midcentury Modern, Modern Streamline, Art Deco, Spanish Revival, Victorians and Craftsman Bungalows... Florida can be offensive to the eye with regards to its built environment along retail corridors especially. With all the rapid growth there is no light rail or any alternative to car or boat dependency than what little exists. I think Florida should be double taxed for all of its urban planning mistakes and its mass consumption of fossil fuels.

Florida designs around the auto and not people (except for South Beach and parts of Miami and in other major downtowns throughout Florida).

I live in Fort Lauderdale and I think driving down Andrews Avenue is one of the most depressing soul crushing experiences if you are a city lover.

By the way behind that wall of skyscrapers lies one of the most magnificent beaches in America. Haulover Beach is a nudist's paradise.
I agree.. Strip malls need to go, it looks terrible! Regarding downtown Miami, It seems ridiculous that more retail space was not zoned into the base of these towers... or at least include indoor retail malls like Asian cities, anything would be better than just an entrance. Is it b/c there is not market for shopping in downtown Miami? In order to bring people downtown, they must compete with the large malls -- and that means 200-300 stores, large shopping complexes in the base of towers, etc... there is nothing to attract people downtown. One little retail village doesn't seem enough -- South Miami avenue would need to be lined with retail spaces up and down, and the photos show that these do not exist b/c of poor zoning. I can't fathom such poor forsight on the part of planners and developers.. no interest in building a vibrant streetscape at all, very strange. IMO, the city should have looked at the streetscape first.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 07:02 AM   #103
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[QUOTE=phillybud;28775292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by salaverryo View Post

I vehemently disagree with you. Have you ever been to Miami? Do you know what you are talking about? I lived in Miami for 25 years of my life and still have family there so I visit every year. Yes, many of the buildings are brand new and the tenants haven't all moved in yet.

I assure you that Miami is rocking, lively, glamorous city. It is a new city and the buildings are clean (not like, alas!, Philadelphia). What makes it a little differant from Las Vegas or Dubai is - believe it or not! - the architecture is wee bit more restrained and conservative, not quite as "fancy" or garish as those other two cities. Also Miami is tropical and green, it is not located in a dusty desert. Remember "Florida" means 'feast of flowers'. Most of the residential neighborhoods are quite boring and banal, however. But much of Miami - Fairchild Tropical Gardens, Vizcaya, Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, the islands in Biscayne Bay - is stunningly beautiful! That's why so many millionaires and billionaires choose to live there!!!

All well and good. However, where are all these residents going to shop and play in downtown Miami....so far I have seen very little retail.. I don't understand how a downtown could thrive if there are so few entertainment options being built. I fear that these people will spend and have fun in Miami beach or the suburbs. How are you going to keep the interest of foreign investors who like to walk up and down, passeo, etc... you know what I mean.. there needs to be some kind of a destination square or street in central Miami to keep people there. Sorry to say, but tiny little european villages often have more street life than central miami and that is b/c there are retail options and cafes, bars, etc... I really hope they can do this, and less of these faceless towers in the future.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 07:05 AM   #104
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Here it is, my STEP city!
Great pictures man!! simply awesome you practically have the most impressive pictures of this tropical storm!
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Old December 1st, 2008, 08:13 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleko View Post
Here it is, my STEP city!
Great pictures man!! simply awesome you practically have the most impressive pictures of this tropical storm!
Thanks! I think it is because I incorporated more pictures of real city life. For instance, the baptism happening at the top of the preceding page is a common occurrence on Sundays in Biscayne Bay along the Tuttle and Rickenbacker Causewayd where I've seen them. Church congregations rather than dressing up for a Sunday service will dress in street clothes and picnic by the Bay during their Sunday service for a baptism. I find it an interesting part of city life here in Miami along with the various festivals different ethnic groups put on throughout the year. Then, of course, I love capturing the new skyscrapers. It is how I caught the attention of a prestitigious architectural firm whereby I became one of the photographers contibuting to updating the book Miami the Magic City. I'm even working on making a music video slide show of some of my best pics. To work on my music video is the reason I created this thread. They are the pics on page 1 and 2 with the beat counts in the upper left hand corner above each pic.

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Old December 1st, 2008, 08:35 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
All well and good. However, where are all these residents going to shop and play in downtown Miami....so far I have seen very little retail.. I don't understand how a downtown could thrive if there are so few entertainment options being built. I fear that these people will spend and have fun in Miami beach or the suburbs. How are you going to keep the interest of foreign investors who like to walk up and down, passeo, etc... you know what I mean.. there needs to be some kind of a destination square or street in central Miami to keep people there. Sorry to say, but tiny little european villages often have more street life than central miami and that is b/c there are retail options and cafes, bars, etc... I really hope they can do this, and less of these faceless towers in the future.
Miami is a relatively young city going through a rather awkward adolescent stage at the moment. We have to wait and see what the city will be like when it "grows up" and becomes whatever it is going to become.

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Old December 1st, 2008, 09:09 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
1. One little retail village doesn't seem enough -- South Miami avenue would need to be lined with retail spaces up and down, and 2. the photos show that these do not exist b/c of poor zoning. I can't fathom such poor forsight on the part of planners and developers.. 3. no interest in building a vibrant streetscape at all, very strange. IMO, the city should have looked at the streetscape first.
1. Of course it's not enough.

2. How do you know these do not exist because of poor zoning? How do you know what is zoned to go where? I know what is zoned and planned to go where because I live here.

3. Now you are getting ridiculous. Of course there is interest in building a vibrant streetscape. Residents and retail is a balancing act because without enough residents first, retail dies. So new residents have to deal with a bit of travel for things in the beginning. We can't look at the streetscape first without enough people living downtown.
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Last edited by QuantumX; December 1st, 2008 at 10:02 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 03:08 PM   #108
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Calm down please. I am not ridiculous, I am an outsider observing what you are showing me and I am pointing out faults that are apparant in these photos. It appears to me that some grave mistakes are being made and I wanted to discuss why. I am just pointing out my views here, no need to get upset.

I don't agree with you on having to wait until everyone is downtown before looking at the streetscape. I think that will lead to big problems down the line, when there is less room to plan and change things around. Those mistakes have been made before, i.e, downtown LA.

All I was saying was that from your photos and from other Miami shots, there is little in the way of decent retail projects incorporated into these new condos. For example, vertical malls, large storefronts, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it from these photos. This is a problem, b/c it would cost a lot to retrofit them in the future.

The problem I see is that there needs to be a mix to sustain the energy of the area and I don't see any major entertainment projects U/C as of now in Miami central. They may come in the future, but then these towers still may not have enough retail space to create a vibrant streetscape and may remain missed opportunites or deaden the streetscapes. I think it would have been better to incorporate some larger entertainment/retail uses into all of these towers to give the streetscape some continuity. This is my opinion and I don't live in Miami but am interested in it. It just saddens me to think that these towers are not being used to their full potential, and it may hurt the creation of a true vibrant downtown if too many faceless condos are built. That is all. I just don't see a thriving downtown in the making from what you are showing.

Last edited by aquablue; December 1st, 2008 at 03:27 PM.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 04:42 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philadweller View Post
Of course Miami looks like a real city. Imagine what people thought of Manhattan in the 1920's when the buildings were new.

I am disturbed how Florida puts strip malls at the base of its skyscrapers. This photo shows everything that is wrong with most Florida zoning. You would never see this in Manhattan, London, Paris or Amsterdam.
image hosted on flickr

If I'm not mistaken, I think this strip mall came before those skyscrapers. It is actually sitting across 4 lanes on Route A1A/ Collins Avenue. In fact, most of the strip malls on Miami Beach and Sunny Isles pre-date the skyscrapers, which replaced low level hotels and motels. As aesthetically unpleasing as they are, the strip malls provide valuable amenities with their shops and restaurants to all those people who live in the buildings and those tourists who have cars and are staying in the hotels. Miami Beach is a very long, skinny island. Unfortunately this is our reality for now in the coastal areas of Florida which have undergone development in the age of the auto. Then again, we have a beach we can live next to or visit any time, something you'd never see in Manhattan, London, Paris, or Amsterdam.

Great thread S! I really enjoy the pics. You should try to get some of the Coppertone Girl going up on Biscayne Blvd. Not a block from our house!
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Old December 1st, 2008, 06:46 PM   #110
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Those 2 skyscrapers are new. On the left is under constrcution, and the other is recently finished... The color is too white to be old
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Old December 1st, 2008, 07:16 PM   #111
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what a concrete jungle...
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Old December 1st, 2008, 09:09 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Calm down please. 1. I am not ridiculous, I am an outsider observing what you are showing me and I am pointing out faults that are apparant in these photos. It appears to me that some grave mistakes are being made and I wanted to discuss why. I am just pointing out my views here, no need to get upset.

2. I don't agree with you on having to wait until everyone is downtown before looking at the streetscape. I think that will lead to big problems down the line, when there is less room to plan and change things around. Those mistakes have been made before, i.e, downtown LA.

3. All I was saying was that from your photos and from other Miami shots, there is little in the way of decent retail projects incorporated into these new condos. For example, vertical malls, large storefronts, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it from these photos. This is a problem, b/c it would cost a lot to retrofit them in the future.

4. It just saddens me to think that these towers are not being used to their full potential, and it may hurt the creation of a true vibrant downtown if too many faceless condos are built. That is all. I just don't see a thriving downtown in the making from what you are showing.
1. You can't really see this from the photos. Some of the towers have retail built into them, but the towers haven't even opened yet. Calm down please and be patient.

2. What you are paraphrasing is not what I said.

3. There is a large variety of projects either under construction or planned that are not only strictly residential, but we also have office towers that are under construction as well as mixed-used projects incorporating retail.

4. Don't be sad, be patient. There is simply a lot in the photos that you just can't see.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 09:39 PM   #113
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I have to say that you've done a great job. Honest.

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Old December 1st, 2008, 09:45 PM   #114
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I don't doubt that Miami will get more pedestrian friendly. Havana, Cuba is much more pedestrian friendly than Miami. Sadly many of the new immigrants associate a car dependent suburban lifestyle as a form of status.

"I assure you that Miami is rocking, lively, glamorous city. It is a new city and the buildings are clean (not like, alas!, Philadelphia). "

No need to dis Philly. Philadelphia was smart enough 200 years ago to incorporate residential with retail. Philadelphia is light years ahead of Miami in terms of being a "real" cohesive walkable city. There is a new glamorous Philly along with the old gritty wonderful city. Do you know anything about Tony Goldman?
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Old December 1st, 2008, 09:48 PM   #115
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[QUOTE=phillybud;28775292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by salaverryo View Post

I vehemently disagree with you. Have you ever been to Miami? Do you know what you are talking about? I lived in Miami for 25 years of my life and still have family there so I visit every year. Yes, many of the buildings are brand new and the tenants haven't all moved in yet.
The tenants have not moved in & most likely never will. Those apartments are bought with black money by wealthy Latin Americans as an investment & to avoid taxes in their home countries. Same thing happens in Panama City. Miami may be vibrant, lively, energetic, glamorous, etc. etc., but there just isn't enough local market to populate all those towers.

By the way, "Florida" doesn't mean "feast of flowers" but simply "flowery".
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:05 AM   #116
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[QUOTE=salaverryo;28803770]
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Originally Posted by phillybud View Post

1. The tenants have not moved in & most likely never will. Those apartments are bought with black money by wealthy Latin Americans as an investment & to avoid taxes in their home countries.

2. but there just isn't enough local market to populate all those towers.
1. This is partly true, but it is a gross generalization. The condos here are bought by people from all over the world for various reasons. I believe the "War on Terrorism" and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq made the boom here as big as it got because the dollar fell so low against the euro that property here became a bargin for foreign investors. There is an entire industry here built around property managers who rent out these condos for owners who don't live here. What you are saying had more to do with fueling the 80s boom which brought the hit TV show Miami Vice to South Florida which led to the revitalization of Miami Beach, particularly South Beach and the boom that occurred here in Miami is partly a continuation of that boom as anti-development sentiment and a less corrupt Miami government caused developers to look across the bay.

2. I agree wth you here. There ISN'T enough local market to populate all those towers. Many of them are second homes to jet setters from around the world. South Florida has always been a place where the many wealthy had a second home. We've created more for them by going up. Only global interest could have created a boom as big as what just occurred here in Miami that has statisticians calling Miami's skyline the largest in the U.S. behind New York and Chicago based on what has made it to construction thus far.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:26 AM   #117
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From the Roof of Outside Extended Care (South Beach)

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I have to say that you've done a great job. Honest.

Oceanside Extended Care is where my mom is:
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:31 AM   #118
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Great thread S! I really enjoy the pics. You should try to get some of the Coppertone Girl going up on Biscayne Blvd. Not a block from our house!
Thanks, N! You asked, so here she is.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/...8471d311_b.jpg
image hosted on flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/...163b8e0a_b.jpg
image hosted on flickr
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 05:02 PM   #119
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YOU ROCK!

Here's some interesting info on the sign and its official unveiling tonight.
http://daliartblog.com/2008/11/15/th...omes-home.aspx

It's quite a coincidence both signs (The Vagabond) you pictured were made by the same company!
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 06:38 PM   #120
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Miami rocks
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