Philippine National Heritage Watch

[LordCarnal]

@Wonderboy

I learned from an expert who works in a church heritage commission here in Cebu that one of the angels fell and the parish priest, fearing that the other angels would follow suit, had all the angels removed (maybe temporarily? I hope so).

Anyway, the commission already has its eyes on it and I think he will be in Carcar today to further investigate.

[LordCarnal]

@Wonderboy

I learned from an expert who works in a church heritage commission here in Cebu that one of the angels fell and the parish priest, fearing that the other angels would follow suit, had all the angels removed (maybe temporarily? I hope so).

Anyway, the commission already has its eyes on it and I think he will be in Carcar today to further investigate.

[Hawayano]

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Father Blanco's Garden

Hello everyone,

Was browsing the web and read that Fr. Gallende of San Agustin Church will build a seminary on the grounds of Fr. Blanco's garden:

-----

FATHER BLANCO'S GARDEN

For years I heard that the Order of Saint Augustine had elaborate plans to construct an seminary/annex to the museum behind their cloisters in Intramuros, on the site of the former Agustinian Dormitories which was destroyed in the Battle of Manila back in 1945 (above, right). In the last ten years, several plans were drawn up, scale models were made, but nothing ever seemed to go beyond the blueprint stage. Frankly, I thought that construction would never ever push through at all. Or that perhaps before doing so, they would first repair the crumbling bathrooms and rooms of the original museum and rebuild the bell tower (which was destroyed in the earthquake of 1883) before venturing into the construction of a new building within the complex. Apparently I thought wrong. Way wrong.



Just a couple of days ago, while doing my usual spiel about the American Colonial period in the garden (above), I recieved word from San Agustin employees that construction would finally begin at the end of March. Looking around, I also noticed that all the plants lining the bench area had all been uprooted, the gardener had been laid off, and the trees marked for cutting (DENR permit?) in order to begin construction of a two storey building that does NOT really look like the original structure at all. This came as horrifying news for me as I now have to find a new location for the American Colonial period segment of my tour. But that aside, I was willing to grin and bear the inconvenience and transfer my spiel to the upper galleries during the construction period since the annex would eventually be used as a restoration workshop, auditorium, and exhibition hall for San Agustin. Truth be told, I am not one to hinder any project that would upgrade the facilities of the museum. But unfortunately that wouldn't be the case either as even the purpose of the new building has been changed. No longer will the building be used for cultural purposes but it will now be used by priests as their domitories and nothing else. I don't know if the National Historical Institute approved these new changes (or if they even know what is going on at all). All I know is that the design needs some major alterations (the glass windows are just way too big and inappropriate) and the museum should definitely be given priority. After all, the San Agustin Order has a lot of land in the province, why don't they build the dormitories out there where the air is fresher and there is more space? It just doesn't make sense to me to build a seminary inside the current San Agustin compound.

The Building Plans:







This will remain:



But all the trees here will be cut down to make way for the new L shaped seminary.





----

Is Fr. Gallende allowed to do this? I believe that Fr. Blanco's garden is an archeological site and should not be touched.

Oh, vomit!!! here we go again: yet another case of Philippine history taking the backseat to unilateral decision-making with little or no consideration of historic preservation.

I'd like to know why the new seminary cannot be built on the footprint of the original second monastery as a faithful exterior restoration with up-to-date interior (as in Danding Cojuangco's mock-up of the Augustinian Provincialate just across Calle Real). Sure is no wonder that our culture is too often misconstrued as baduy and full of tacky borloloys--we can't understand that "less is more" and appreciate the artifacts left by our forebears.

[Hawayano]

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Father Blanco's Garden

Hello everyone,

Was browsing the web and read that Fr. Gallende of San Agustin Church will build a seminary on the grounds of Fr. Blanco's garden:

-----

FATHER BLANCO'S GARDEN

For years I heard that the Order of Saint Augustine had elaborate plans to construct an seminary/annex to the museum behind their cloisters in Intramuros, on the site of the former Agustinian Dormitories which was destroyed in the Battle of Manila back in 1945 (above, right). In the last ten years, several plans were drawn up, scale models were made, but nothing ever seemed to go beyond the blueprint stage. Frankly, I thought that construction would never ever push through at all. Or that perhaps before doing so, they would first repair the crumbling bathrooms and rooms of the original museum and rebuild the bell tower (which was destroyed in the earthquake of 1883) before venturing into the construction of a new building within the complex. Apparently I thought wrong. Way wrong.



Just a couple of days ago, while doing my usual spiel about the American Colonial period in the garden (above), I recieved word from San Agustin employees that construction would finally begin at the end of March. Looking around, I also noticed that all the plants lining the bench area had all been uprooted, the gardener had been laid off, and the trees marked for cutting (DENR permit?) in order to begin construction of a two storey building that does NOT really look like the original structure at all. This came as horrifying news for me as I now have to find a new location for the American Colonial period segment of my tour. But that aside, I was willing to grin and bear the inconvenience and transfer my spiel to the upper galleries during the construction period since the annex would eventually be used as a restoration workshop, auditorium, and exhibition hall for San Agustin. Truth be told, I am not one to hinder any project that would upgrade the facilities of the museum. But unfortunately that wouldn't be the case either as even the purpose of the new building has been changed. No longer will the building be used for cultural purposes but it will now be used by priests as their domitories and nothing else. I don't know if the National Historical Institute approved these new changes (or if they even know what is going on at all). All I know is that the design needs some major alterations (the glass windows are just way too big and inappropriate) and the museum should definitely be given priority. After all, the San Agustin Order has a lot of land in the province, why don't they build the dormitories out there where the air is fresher and there is more space? It just doesn't make sense to me to build a seminary inside the current San Agustin compound.

The Building Plans:







This will remain:



But all the trees here will be cut down to make way for the new L shaped seminary.





----

Is Fr. Gallende allowed to do this? I believe that Fr. Blanco's garden is an archeological site and should not be touched.

Oh, vomit!!! here we go again: yet another case of Philippine history taking the backseat to unilateral decision-making with little or no consideration of historic preservation.

I'd like to know why the new seminary cannot be built on the footprint of the original second monastery as a faithful exterior restoration with up-to-date interior (as in Danding Cojuangco's mock-up of the Augustinian Provincialate just across Calle Real). Sure is no wonder that our culture is too often misconstrued as baduy and full of tacky borloloys--we can't understand that "less is more" and appreciate the artifacts left by our forebears.

[Pinoy_ako]

Originally Posted by Lili

I think the seminary plans look fine. The trees still look young and hopefully, they will be transplanted. The new structure blends well with the old ruins. Maybe, they can still maintain the museum there just like the mission churches/monasteries in California.

I'd rather maintain the presence of the priests in Intramuros than just make it purely for entertainment purpose.

It is not the reconstruction per se that is wrong with the project. Rather it is how it will be carried out. As much as possible, the plans should have been faithful to the old buildings. The designation of the San Agustin Church as a World Heritage Site gives more weight on the authenticity of the second monastery's reconstruction. Here's a direct quote from the proceedings of the UNESCO World Heritage Convention meetings:


677 Baroque Churches

"Section II
Periodic Reporting for Well Planned Heritage Preservation
State Party: Republic of the Philippines
Property Name: Baroque Churches of the Philippines
026 Are there (further) changes foreseeable to the authenticity / integrity of the property in the near future? YES/No

"Specifically in San Agustin Church in Intramuros, Manila
027 If YES, please explain and indicate how these changes might affect the World Heritage values of the property:

"There is a proposal to build on the site of Father Blanco's garden within the San Agustin Church complex in Intramuros, Manila. Though the foundation for this building exists, there are no extant plans or pictures on which to base the reconstruction; and in the Rules and Regulations of the Intramuros Administration Charter the area is designated as "ruins." The matter has been referred to the World Heritage Center because it is the opinion of the NCCA and the Intramuros Administration that rebuilding said construction would largely be conjectural. The use of the building will be for commercial purposes: to generate income for the maintenance of the church complex."

If the reconstruction of portions of the Second Monastery will proceed, why not be as faithful as possible to the original buildings. Contrary to what has been said above, there are pictures showing the Second Monastery, perspectives from within Father Blanco's Gardens, as well as perspectives from the Orchards of San Agustin. The ruins itself has perspective both from the Calle Real de Parian showing the pasadizo to the Augustinian Procuration and from the front Patio of the Church. However, I do not know why San Agustin picked up the lines of NCCA and Intramuros Administration regarding the construction as being largely conjectural when it ( San Agustin ) knows that it is in possesion of a large body of pictures showing views of the Second Monastery from various perspective, that is, from all sides, from within the patio and even along the cloisters and halls. There is even an aerial photo from which to base the interior divisions of the building, if there is a need for it. Moreover, why did it carried out the cojectural plan. I am also inclined to believe now that what NCCA and IA regard as conjectural are the drawings that were shown to us by Wonderboy. The bottom line is, IA, NCCA and San Agustin could have worked together to come up with a plan that has a certain degree of authenticity and which UNESCO most likely approve, with regards to San Agustin Church's listing as a world heritage site. Why can't they come together and plan not only for our heritage but that of the world as well.

The book of Father Galende also shows pictures of the ruins of the second monastery before they were destroyed by the earthquake ( of 1968?). Anyway, I just want to show that there are pictures that can be used for the proper perspective. So it cannot be entirely conjectural as written in the report to UNESCO. If there are efforts to reconstruct, why can't we start with San Agustin. It has been done with the walls.

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Father Blanco's Garden

The Building Plans:

One more thing, the drawings do not reflect the status of the buildings before the war because the original ones were not really pleasing - the walls are heavily buttressed, some wings were higher the the others ( just in the second monastery alone! ). But at least, it can be reconstructed with a certain degree of authenticity with regards to the original buildings. The thing is, the San Agustin Church World Heritage status can later be expanded to include the reconstructed monastery.

In addition to the photos above, here are other photos in the books authored by Father Galende.

References for Photos:

Galende, Pedro G. And Regalado Torta Jose. San Agustin - Art & History 1571-2000. Manila: San Agustin Museum, 2000.

Photos:

P. 22. Second Monaster built from 1628 to 1668 ( It shows the elevation of the section of the vertical bar of the "L" which will be reconstructed in the plan ).

P. 22. The Sala de vistas, with a view of Manila bay, was built over the second monastery by Luciano Oliver from 1861 to 1863. ( It shows the Billiards Hall of the Second Monastery, although I do not know whether this is part of the proposed parts. Anyway, it shows how the roof trusses of the upper story is supposed to be built. )

P. 23. Corridor on second floor of second monastery. ( It shows the corridor, the ceiling planks and the windows as well as certain doors. It is relatively detailed as to how the trusses may be placed since corbels shows through the walls. It also has indications on how to lay-out the floorings ( brick?)

P. 23. View of second monastery from Calle Real ( Shows the photo of the ruins that stands along the Calle Real de Parian ).

P. 34 Ruins of Second Monastery ( It shows the gutted interior of the second monastery, specifically the third floor along Calle Real and the wing connecting the one along Calle Real with that of the First Monastery. Mostly ruins, but it may have tell-tale signs on how it was built ).

P. 35. San Agustin complex just after liberation ( It shows the aerial view of the whole San Agustin Complex, including the Second Monastery. Scaling can be done to a certain extent, based on the church and the First monastery, which are still existing. The division of the cells and corridors and Halls of the upper level of the second monastery can be seen! ).

P. 126 Prewar photo of the second monastery and orchard at extreme left is the infirmary for the community ( This shows another view of the one at page 22.

P. 158-159 Long view of Puerto Santa Lucia ( outside the walls ). ( This shows a panoramic view of the second monastery together with the infirmary wing from the Santa Lucia Gate. )

P. 159. Community infirmary on the corner of Santa Lucia and San Lorenco. ( Another view of the wing along Santa Lucia Gate ).

Galende, Pedro G. San Agustin Noble Stone Shrine. Metro Manila: G. A. Formoso Publishing, 1989.


P. 37 Interior of second monastery where Blanco's garden was located ( shows the how the 3-storey wing looks from within the patio. It shows two buttresses encompassing two storeys, or almost up to the floor of the 3rd storey. Two windows per storey are shown between the two buttresses. It also show how the third storey was designed )

P 38. Recreation Hall located at the third floor ( Another view of the Biliards Hall. It shows the trusses, corbels, walls and flooring. )

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Father Blanco's Garden

P. 38. View of Second monastery from Santa lucia street, destroyed in World War II. ( Another view of the wing along Sta Lucia, similar to the one above. The second monastery is the building at the right edge of the picture. The proposed reconstruction however are the wings which could not be seen in the picture ).

P. 39. Wing of second monastery connecting the first one by the Sala de San Pablo ( View marred by several trees, although the original picture might show further details )

P. 39. Infirmary attached to the second monastery. ( Another fiew of the proposed section to be reconstructed. In case the other pictures wouldn't show the required details. )

P. 39. Second monastery seen from outside courtyard. ( This was how the second monastery was connected to the first monastery. This shows one of the balconies from where we look out into Father Blanco's garden from the 2nd floor of the existing museum. )

P. 40. Upper third cloister of second monster ( Another view of the clister, showing arches along the corridor, as well as wooden planks for ceiling and bricks for pavement floors. )

P. 95 Blanco's botanic garden at the second monastery. ( Picture shows one wing of the second monastery and how the tiled roof curved down to the eaves. There are also clues on how the proposed wing was constructed - that is one storey lower than the present ruined wall.

Anyway, I have formerly asked in private a number of people if they remember where the old pictures of Fr Blanco's garden were posted. I had this funny feeling that I would need to look at it. Now I know why.

I hope those who value our heritage would come together and act on this one. It is one of the few areas where we can pool our resources so we can help straighten out the wrongs that are being done. Initially, we can pool all the pictures regarding San Agustin so we can present them to the proper authorities so that the "initial" plans can be modified.

[Pinoy_ako]

Originally Posted by Lili

I think the seminary plans look fine. The trees still look young and hopefully, they will be transplanted. The new structure blends well with the old ruins. Maybe, they can still maintain the museum there just like the mission churches/monasteries in California.

I'd rather maintain the presence of the priests in Intramuros than just make it purely for entertainment purpose.

It is not the reconstruction per se that is wrong with the project. Rather it is how it will be carried out. As much as possible, the plans should have been faithful to the old buildings. The designation of the San Agustin Church as a World Heritage Site gives more weight on the authenticity of the second monastery's reconstruction. Here's a direct quote from the proceedings of the UNESCO World Heritage Convention meetings:


677 Baroque Churches

"Section II
Periodic Reporting for Well Planned Heritage Preservation
State Party: Republic of the Philippines
Property Name: Baroque Churches of the Philippines
026 Are there (further) changes foreseeable to the authenticity / integrity of the property in the near future? YES/No

"Specifically in San Agustin Church in Intramuros, Manila
027 If YES, please explain and indicate how these changes might affect the World Heritage values of the property:

"There is a proposal to build on the site of Father Blanco's garden within the San Agustin Church complex in Intramuros, Manila. Though the foundation for this building exists, there are no extant plans or pictures on which to base the reconstruction; and in the Rules and Regulations of the Intramuros Administration Charter the area is designated as "ruins." The matter has been referred to the World Heritage Center because it is the opinion of the NCCA and the Intramuros Administration that rebuilding said construction would largely be conjectural. The use of the building will be for commercial purposes: to generate income for the maintenance of the church complex."

If the reconstruction of portions of the Second Monastery will proceed, why not be as faithful as possible to the original buildings. Contrary to what has been said above, there are pictures showing the Second Monastery, perspectives from within Father Blanco's Gardens, as well as perspectives from the Orchards of San Agustin. The ruins itself has perspective both from the Calle Real de Parian showing the pasadizo to the Augustinian Procuration and from the front Patio of the Church. However, I do not know why San Agustin picked up the lines of NCCA and Intramuros Administration regarding the construction as being largely conjectural when it ( San Agustin ) knows that it is in possesion of a large body of pictures showing views of the Second Monastery from various perspective, that is, from all sides, from within the patio and even along the cloisters and halls. There is even an aerial photo from which to base the interior divisions of the building, if there is a need for it. Moreover, why did it carried out the cojectural plan. I am also inclined to believe now that what NCCA and IA regard as conjectural are the drawings that were shown to us by Wonderboy. The bottom line is, IA, NCCA and San Agustin could have worked together to come up with a plan that has a certain degree of authenticity and which UNESCO most likely approve, with regards to San Agustin Church's listing as a world heritage site. Why can't they come together and plan not only for our heritage but that of the world as well.

The book of Father Galende also shows pictures of the ruins of the second monastery before they were destroyed by the earthquake ( of 1968?). Anyway, I just want to show that there are pictures that can be used for the proper perspective. So it cannot be entirely conjectural as written in the report to UNESCO. If there are efforts to reconstruct, why can't we start with San Agustin. It has been done with the walls.

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Father Blanco's Garden

The Building Plans:

One more thing, the drawings do not reflect the status of the buildings before the war because the original ones were not really pleasing - the walls are heavily buttressed, some wings were higher the the others ( just in the second monastery alone! ). But at least, it can be reconstructed with a certain degree of authenticity with regards to the original buildings. The thing is, the San Agustin Church World Heritage status can later be expanded to include the reconstructed monastery.

In addition to the photos above, here are other photos in the books authored by Father Galende.

References for Photos:

Galende, Pedro G. And Regalado Torta Jose. San Agustin - Art & History 1571-2000. Manila: San Agustin Museum, 2000.

Photos:

P. 22. Second Monaster built from 1628 to 1668 ( It shows the elevation of the section of the vertical bar of the "L" which will be reconstructed in the plan ).

P. 22. The Sala de vistas, with a view of Manila bay, was built over the second monastery by Luciano Oliver from 1861 to 1863. ( It shows the Billiards Hall of the Second Monastery, although I do not know whether this is part of the proposed parts. Anyway, it shows how the roof trusses of the upper story is supposed to be built. )

P. 23. Corridor on second floor of second monastery. ( It shows the corridor, the ceiling planks and the windows as well as certain doors. It is relatively detailed as to how the trusses may be placed since corbels shows through the walls. It also has indications on how to lay-out the floorings ( brick?)

P. 23. View of second monastery from Calle Real ( Shows the photo of the ruins that stands along the Calle Real de Parian ).

P. 34 Ruins of Second Monastery ( It shows the gutted interior of the second monastery, specifically the third floor along Calle Real and the wing connecting the one along Calle Real with that of the First Monastery. Mostly ruins, but it may have tell-tale signs on how it was built ).

P. 35. San Agustin complex just after liberation ( It shows the aerial view of the whole San Agustin Complex, including the Second Monastery. Scaling can be done to a certain extent, based on the church and the First monastery, which are still existing. The division of the cells and corridors and Halls of the upper level of the second monastery can be seen! ).

P. 126 Prewar photo of the second monastery and orchard at extreme left is the infirmary for the community ( This shows another view of the one at page 22.

P. 158-159 Long view of Puerto Santa Lucia ( outside the walls ). ( This shows a panoramic view of the second monastery together with the infirmary wing from the Santa Lucia Gate. )

P. 159. Community infirmary on the corner of Santa Lucia and San Lorenco. ( Another view of the wing along Santa Lucia Gate ).

Galende, Pedro G. San Agustin Noble Stone Shrine. Metro Manila: G. A. Formoso Publishing, 1989.


P. 37 Interior of second monastery where Blanco's garden was located ( shows the how the 3-storey wing looks from within the patio. It shows two buttresses encompassing two storeys, or almost up to the floor of the 3rd storey. Two windows per storey are shown between the two buttresses. It also show how the third storey was designed )

P 38. Recreation Hall located at the third floor ( Another view of the Biliards Hall. It shows the trusses, corbels, walls and flooring. )

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Father Blanco's Garden

P. 38. View of Second monastery from Santa lucia street, destroyed in World War II. ( Another view of the wing along Sta Lucia, similar to the one above. The second monastery is the building at the right edge of the picture. The proposed reconstruction however are the wings which could not be seen in the picture ).

P. 39. Wing of second monastery connecting the first one by the Sala de San Pablo ( View marred by several trees, although the original picture might show further details )

P. 39. Infirmary attached to the second monastery. ( Another fiew of the proposed section to be reconstructed. In case the other pictures wouldn't show the required details. )

P. 39. Second monastery seen from outside courtyard. ( This was how the second monastery was connected to the first monastery. This shows one of the balconies from where we look out into Father Blanco's garden from the 2nd floor of the existing museum. )

P. 40. Upper third cloister of second monster ( Another view of the clister, showing arches along the corridor, as well as wooden planks for ceiling and bricks for pavement floors. )

P. 95 Blanco's botanic garden at the second monastery. ( Picture shows one wing of the second monastery and how the tiled roof curved down to the eaves. There are also clues on how the proposed wing was constructed - that is one storey lower than the present ruined wall.

Anyway, I have formerly asked in private a number of people if they remember where the old pictures of Fr Blanco's garden were posted. I had this funny feeling that I would need to look at it. Now I know why.

I hope those who value our heritage would come together and act on this one. It is one of the few areas where we can pool our resources so we can help straighten out the wrongs that are being done. Initially, we can pool all the pictures regarding San Agustin so we can present them to the proper authorities so that the "initial" plans can be modified.

[Wonderboy]

Can I request the mods not to lock this thread yet or create a new thread? Thank you.

[Wonderboy]

Can I request the mods not to lock this thread yet or create a new thread? Thank you.

[Hawayano]

@pinoy_ako: thanks for the informative posting. Add to your reference list of evidence the two postwar classics on Fil-Hispano architecture:

Intramuros de Manila de 1571 hasta su destruccion en 1945 by Don Pedro Ortiz Armengol, and Arquitectura Española en Filipinas by Maria Diaz Trechuelo-Spinola--both volumes published in the 1950s, when the urgency to save these structures was still supported by a very foreseeable and feasible undertaking since their ruins were still extant.

[Hawayano]

@pinoy_ako: thanks for the informative posting. Add to your reference list of evidence the two postwar classics on Fil-Hispano architecture:

Intramuros de Manila de 1571 hasta su destruccion en 1945 by Don Pedro Ortiz Armengol, and Arquitectura Española en Filipinas by Maria Diaz Trechuelo-Spinola--both volumes published in the 1950s, when the urgency to save these structures was still supported by a very foreseeable and feasible undertaking since their ruins were still extant.

[TheAvenger]

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[TheAvenger]

To Mods :

Kindly removed all my above repeated posting which I deleted already.
I am sorry for all this mistake in posting. **** alis po kasi pangit tignan ang paulit ulit na posting.

[TheAvenger]

To Mods :

Kindly removed all my above repeated posting which I deleted already.
I am sorry for all this mistake in posting. **** alis po kasi pangit tignan ang paulit ulit na posting.

[TheAvenger]

This afternoon I was in one of the university in Mendiola where my daughter took her college entrance test and while waiting for her, I went to Intramuros to take a quick look at the illegal building of the mentioned sports complex.

There is no workers and no activity in the construction site, and it seems the many lumbers used in the construction were removed.

quite difficult to take photos in close range so I just crossed the street and take the photos.




The site of the construction of sports complex adjacent to the wall of Fort Santiago's National Shrine building. The building with the red roof is the National Shrine bulding inside the wall of Fort Santiago.












The building with the red roof is the National Shrine building inside the wall of Fort Santiago.



next week when I go back to Manila I intend to take the photos of the construction of sports complex on the Fort Santiago side where I can get a close and better views.

[TheAvenger]

This afternoon I was in one of the university in Mendiola where my daughter took her college entrance test and while waiting for her, I went to Intramuros to take a quick look at the illegal building of the mentioned sports complex.

There is no workers and no activity in the construction site, and it seems the many lumbers used in the construction were removed.

quite difficult to take photos in close range so I just crossed the street and take the photos.




The site of the construction of sports complex adjacent to the wall of Fort Santiago's National Shrine building. The building with the red roof is the National Shrine bulding inside the wall of Fort Santiago.












The building with the red roof is the National Shrine building inside the wall of Fort Santiago.



next week when I go back to Manila I intend to take the photos of the construction of sports complex on the Fort Santiago side where I can get a close and better views.