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Old November 30th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #21
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Sao Paulo is a crazy city! I read somewhere that rich people travel around there by helicopter instead of by car.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 10:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
How do you know that Shenzhen does not compare

Much the same as São Paulo, there are no editors in China who add buildings.
Shenzhen has at least 10 million inhabitants. Probably many more since there are millions of migrant workers who enter the city.
Hong Kong is merely a small city in China, which is fortunate to have some editors.
It is already #1 on Emporis. However, Shenzhen sprawls over much more land.

Chinese cities not known for their skyscrapers also have way more than Emporis states. Tell me, when do you hear of Beijing being a skyscraper city?

This is a small portion of Beijing from more than 5 years ago (consider how long ago this is... the entire city of Shenzhen was built about 30 years ago)

The fact is that there are many unknowns... Sao Paulo is indeed very impressive, but it just may not be the the city with the most highrises.
1- Maybe. But Shenzen doesn't have the same number of buildings that São Paulo has right now. From these photos Beijing looks like to have more buildings than Shenzhen.

2- São Paulo is, right now, larger than any Chinese city. This is certainty going to change in the future. With means that in about 20 years I think that some chinese city like Shanghai will have more highrises.

3- Hong Kong is the third largest city in China after Beijing and Shanghai. And it is the first in GDP and number of highrises.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 10:36 PM   #23
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São Paulo is probably the largest city in the world when you combine a density of 30.000 people per square mile with a total urban area population of 20 million (maybe Tokyo beats it).

A comparison of the cities of São Paulo, Hong Kong, Shenzhen, New York and Shanghai from a altitude of 90 km:
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Old November 30th, 2008, 10:40 PM   #24
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A better image of Shanghai with a more defined urban area:
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Old November 30th, 2008, 10:59 PM   #25
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Old December 1st, 2008, 01:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
São Paulo is probably the largest city in the world when you combine a density of 30.000 people per square mile with a total urban area population of 20 million (maybe Tokyo beats it).
Tokyo urban population 28 million+ (CSA 34 million)
Seoul urban population 22 million (CSA 26 million)
Mexico City urban population 21 million (CSA 26 million)
Shanghai urban population 20 million (some say 23 million), CSA - noone has any idea, Shanghai-Wuxi-Suzhou alone holds 40 million, the Yangtze River Delta cities as a whole 80 million

Last edited by the spliff fairy; December 1st, 2008 at 01:28 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 04:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
Tokyo urban population 28 million+ (CSA 34 million)
Seoul urban population 22 million (CSA 26 million)
Mexico City urban population 21 million (CSA 26 million)
Shanghai urban population 20 million (some say 23 million), CSA - noone has any idea, Shanghai-Wuxi-Suzhou alone holds 40 million, the Yangtze River Delta cities as a whole 80 million
What a mean't was that São Paulo had the most impressive combination of population and density. Not that it was the most populous urban area in the world....

Simple, these massive urban centres are not a single continuous urban area in the same sense as São Paulo, brazilian cities are unique in the sense that they are have an extremely dense continuous urban area. I think that only Tokio has a larger continuous urban area which a density of at least 20.000 per square mile than São Paulo, if you know what a mean.

Another cool images:


Last edited by Guaporense; December 1st, 2008 at 04:35 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 04:14 AM   #28
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image hosted on flickr
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Old December 1st, 2008, 04:51 AM   #29
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oh god, ny skyscrapers are so bulky. they just exude mass which is totally out of fashion.
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Old December 1st, 2008, 04:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
Impressive, now the equivalent for São Paulo:



A classic ugly building (the largest building in Brazil by floor area):


Last edited by Guaporense; December 1st, 2008 at 05:09 AM.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 05:47 AM   #31
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Google Aerials are deceiving. Any built area regardless of building height (single-story lowrise) will show up as part of the urban aerial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
3- Hong Kong is the third largest city in China after Beijing and Shanghai. And it is the first in GDP and number of highrises.
Hong Kong is far from the third largest city in China. Shenzhen and Guangzhou at least are larger cities (urban area population-wise).
Hong Kong is first in GDP yes, but that has little to do with number of highrises. I highly doubt it has the highest highrise count either.
Having been to Shanghai and Shenzhen, from my experience both dwarf Hong Kong.

3 year old photo
image hosted on flickr


source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/32543036

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
from flickr

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
image hosted on flickr



It's difficult to count the true population of many Mainland China cities as well due to a large migrant worker population.
It is estimated that there are at least 4 million unregistered migrant workers in Shanghai, putting its population well over 20 million.
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Last edited by Skybean; December 2nd, 2008 at 06:09 AM.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 08:15 PM   #32
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Skybean

Quote:
Google Aerials are deceiving. Any built area regardless of building height (single-story lowrise) will show up as part of the urban aerial.
That's true. But from the aerial photos of São Paulo you can see that large sections of the urban area are covered with thousands of 15 story apartment blocks.

Shanghai is pretty amazing. However, from these aerial pictures of Shanghai a got the impression that this city doesn't have a very high density of highrises. I think that Hong Kong has more high rise buildings, but you cannot see them because they are in front of each other, giving the impression that Shaghai with it's 4 thousand buildings has more than Hong Kong's 8 thousand.

Shenzhen and Shanghai are very young skyscraper cities, they do not had the time to build very dense. New York, Hong Kong and São Paulo (with larger ones in New York and small one in São Paulo) have a very dense concentration of buildings in the center (and the rest of city for Hong Kong and São Paulo).

This is how a think that these cities stack:

1- Hong Kong - Emporis say's that the city has 7,626 highrises, probably has about 8 thousand

2- São Paulo - Emporis: 5,453, Total probable number: 30.000-40.000

3- Shanghai - Emporis: 940 , Total probable number: 3.000-4.000

4- Shenzhen - Emporis: 347 , Total probable number: ~2.000

5- New York - Emporis: 5,597 (more than any mainland chinese city)

Do you have some estimates for the number of skycrapers in Shanghai and Shenzhen that put the total number of highrises in the 50.000s? Because 3 thousand is way smaller than São Paulo's 30/40.000s.

Some photos with hundreds of highrises (thousands?) in each photo, from http://www.piratininga.org/aereas/airphotos.htm:





Same ugly building from before:

Last edited by Guaporense; December 2nd, 2008 at 08:27 PM.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 02:46 AM   #33
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I don't know where you get "total probable number" from. Emporis shouldn't even be a baseline anchor to extrapolate numbers from. It is incomplete for Mainland Chinese cities. I wouldn't even bother to put in a guess as it would be foolish. Much the same as putting up random numbers for Sao Paulo.

The age of a city is totally irrelevant. "Don't have time to build very dense"? Look at Shenzhen. The building rate in China is completely different than that of North America / South America.

30 years ago.




Today


If you have been spending time on this forum for any time, you would know that China is building like crazy and has been for more than 20 years.

Quote:
This year alone, Shanghai will complete towers with more space for living and working than there is in all the office buildings in New York City.

That is in a city that already has 4,000 skyscrapers, almost double the number in New York. And there are designs to build 1,000 more by the end of
this decade.

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/18/bu.../18bubble.html
"Skyscrapers" above 20 floors.

I am beginning to see this discussion as becoming a futile effort with me merely restating points that I made in earlier posts.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:46 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
I don't know where you get "total probable number" from. Emporis shouldn't even be a baseline anchor to extrapolate numbers from. It is incomplete for Mainland Chinese cities. I wouldn't even bother to put in a guess as it would be foolish. Much the same as putting up random numbers for Sao Paulo.
1- The only way to really say that one city has a largest amount of highrises is to count the number of buildings.

2- 40.000/30.000 is not a random number. It an estimated number, not a guess. Why you would think it is a guess? From the photos you can clearly see that São Paulo has a sea of buildings.

Quote:
The age of a city is totally irrelevant. "Don't have time to build very dense"? Look at Shenzhen. The building rate in China is completely different than that of North America / South America.
A did the inverse induction. Looking at Shenzhen you do not see São Paulo like density. The buildings are spread out. A think thats natural for young cities to spread its first skyscrapers and them fill the spaces, that's what happened to New York. And that's what is going to happen in Shenzhen and Shanghai.

Quote:

If you have been spending time on this forum for any time, you would know that China is building like crazy and has been for more than 20 years.


"Skyscrapers" above 20 floors.

I am beginning to see this discussion as becoming a futile effort with me merely restating points that I made in earlier posts.
1- China is building a loot, however this only means that in the future they will have more new buildings than São Paulo. But since they are building huge skycrapers, the new floor area will be concentrated in few large buildings while São Paulo has (and is building) small 15 story buildings and second to emporis (with is imperfect, but is some source, isn't it?) São Paulo is building more highrises than any chinese city now. You cannot see these new buildings from the photos I posted because they are being build in other, less dense, areas of the city (the "skyscraper area" of São Paulo is much larger than any other city in the world).

2- Well, if the 4 thousand number is for skysrapers over 20 floors (a heard 18 in one time, now it's 20?). I think that we need to find some source for all buildings over 12 floors in these cities to see how they fare compared to São Paulo's tens of thousands highrises.

But from the photos you can see much more buildings in São Paulo, and they are much more densely packed. The chinese cities are impressive not only because of number, but because of the large average size of the buildings. However, look at Pudong, here we have about 100 buildings, while a section of the same area of São Paulo's paulista avenue has several times the number of buildings. They are way smaller, but that's not count in the total number of highrises.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 05:21 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
Tokyo urban population 28 million+ (CSA 34 million)
Seoul urban population 22 million (CSA 26 million)
Mexico City urban population 21 million (CSA 26 million)
Shanghai urban population 20 million (some say 23 million), CSA - noone has any idea, Shanghai-Wuxi-Suzhou alone holds 40 million, the Yangtze River Delta cities as a whole 80 million
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 05:36 AM   #36
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god !sao paulo looks amazing
but i dont like so much building


:S
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 07:02 AM   #37
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Quote:
3- Shanghai - Emporis: 940 , Total probable number: 3.000-4.000
should be 13,000-15,000

Guangzhou, a much smaller Chinese city, had 7,000+ hi-rises(18+ floors, incl. 360 100m+ buildings) by the end of 2005,Shanghai should have more.

source:

http://property.wswire.com/htmlnews/.../29/624698.htm

in China, buildings<18 floors are called "小高层" (tall buildings), not hi-rises.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 07:51 AM   #38
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if it comes to skyscrapes and a skyline, it has to be an homogeneous array or density in my oppinion. like atlanta, frankfurt , london or similiar cities.

i really dislike cities with excessive , opressing and crushing skylines, not to mention that theyre all look the same in some .... erm i mean in every way.

its like in a stuffed matchbox.

new york has a special status in my oppinion and constitutes an exception.
a ton of skyscrapers, sure, but the highrises are limited to manhattan, and there are a good bunch of brilliant and characteristic art deco buildings with their stone/iron frontages , and much less boring and average glassed buildings.

i really prefer good quality over quantity in this case.

Last edited by craperskys; December 3rd, 2008 at 08:11 AM.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 09:51 PM   #39
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Aerial comparison

Compare this photo of Shanghai:
image hosted on flickr


In these photos we can see hundreds of highrises with a pretty tall average height. While in São Paulo you can see thousands of small highrises:

(from the São Paulo, the Megalopolis Tread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2513150







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Old December 3rd, 2008, 10:15 PM   #40
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What about this one:

image hosted on flickr


Compared to this:
Taken by GersonLDN
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