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Old January 17th, 2009, 11:24 PM   #101
monkeyronin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
However, for low highrise buildings nobody can beat São Paulo! It has an estimated number of rougly 30.000 buildings over 12 floors!
Thats unlikely, as it would necessitate having nearly all of the metro population living high-rises (which we all know is not the case). In Toronto, we have "only" 1,700 high-rises in the municipality of 2.5 million, which house roughly 1/3 of the population. By this "rule", even if 100% of the municipality of Sao Paulo's population lived in high-rises, it'd have under 23,000, or 40,000 for the entire metro.

I'd still argue Sao Paulo to have the most high-rises of any city in the world, but a more likely metro-wide figure would be in the 10,000-20,000 range.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 03:28 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luci203 View Post
Probably now, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Chongqing are in top 6. (the others are New York, Tokyo and Sao Paulo)
Beijing definitely has more highrises than CQ at the moment. It should have more than New York too. Seoul is another monster that shouldn't be forgotten. It's definitely playing in the same league as Sao Paulo, Shanghai, Tokyo, Beijing etc.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 06:37 AM   #103
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Why is everyone so quick to discredit New York? It has a documented 6,000 high-rises. Even government figures for Shanghai (undoubtedly one of the top cities in quantity of high-rises) don't show significantly more for it.

Based on the information I have, a very rough, very flawed, but fairly reasonable and realistic top 10 list would look something like this:

1. Sao Paulo
2. Hong Kong
3. Shanghai
4. New York
5. Seoul
6. Beijing
7. Singapore
8. Shenzen
9. Rio de Janeiro
10. Tokyo


Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
This is a fraction of Shanghai

image hosted on flickr
Wonderful photo. Do you by chance have it in a higher resolution?

Though, for the record, I wouldn't exactly call that just a fraction of Shanghai, this is roughly the area depicted in it:

Within the metro: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5...haiviewdu7.jpg
Zoomed in: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9...aiview2rk7.jpg

Its missing some significant areas, but it shows the bulk of Shanghai's skyscrapers.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 07:56 AM   #104
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Its missing the whole Puxi half! Not to mention the south - the other loop in the Huangpu river.

Great pic, Staff got it first methinks.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 06:05 PM   #105
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is just me or Shanghai have more than Hong Kong



image hosted on flickr


Hong Kong have more buildings over 30 floors, but look like it have more over 15 floors.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staff View Post
Beijing definitely has more highrises than CQ at the moment. It should have more than New York too. Seoul is another monster that shouldn't be forgotten. It's definitely playing in the same league as Sao Paulo, Shanghai, Tokyo, Beijing etc.
I guess is just my impresion, but Beijing and Seoul have a lot of 6-12 floor buildings.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 07:32 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luci203 View Post
is just me or Shanghai have more than Hong Kong

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9...739bd6bze1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/...4ac7e2d5_b.jpg

Hong Kong have more buildings over 30 floors, but look like it have more over 15 floors.
Keep in mind that in Hong Kong, the buildings are often smaller and more packed together. Thus, when viewed from the air, it'll look like less than a city such as Shanghai, where the buildings are slightly more spaced out (its the same situation with Manhattan and central Sao Paulo, among other, usually older cities). Even though the city is quite small, there are still a good 8,000 high-rises packed in there.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 08:03 PM   #108
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That picture of HK doesn't show all of the built form. Residential housing blocks comprise the majority of highrise buildings in HK, while Central, the major business district has lower density. There are also more housing estates in the New Territories (i.e. 20, 30, 40 tower developments are not uncommon).

See the western area of the island. This only shows as a small compact area of black and grey in a Google maps aerial.
image hosted on flickr


My personal belief is that Shanghai (20 million + pop.) has way more highrises than Hong Kong (7 million) and so does Shenzhen (10 million + pop.). The majority of housing in these cities is highrise and mainland cities have a much larger population. Every HKer knows that Shenzhen is much larger than Hong Kong. And with a population 3 or 4 times larger than Hong Kong, wouldn't it seem logical that Shanghai has many more highrise housing blocks (even though some housing is low-mid rise)? Certainly, when I visited Shanghai, there were highrise blocks and commercial towers everywhere for as far as the eye can see.

I'm surprised that people took so long to notice this. Realistically HK is probably 4 or 5th in highrise count behind other mainland cities.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 09:02 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
I'm surprised that people took so long to notice this. Realistically HK is probably 4 or 5th in highrise count behind other mainland cities.
Still, Hong-Kong have more skyscrapers (+150m) than Shanghai + Shenzhen + Guangzhou for now...

Hong Kong - 230

Shanghai - 82
Shenzhen - 37
Guangzhou - 31

Sao Paulo - 8

New York - 214
Chicago - 104


Last edited by luci203; January 18th, 2009 at 10:00 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 09:04 PM   #110
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Sao Paulo of course. No doubt about it.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 01:33 AM   #111
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im sure that most of those buildings are proposed AND AS I POINTED OUT THE MODERN ONES are not the majority. I think that even though you draw some points its still cost more in NY. Just look at the cost of living here. And once the prices for spae was so high many buisness went out of buisness for name brand retail. That geen space looks tempting but its mostly in stages and wont stop the fact that NY is enviromentally cleaner. I could post some of the same things


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=732386
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Old January 19th, 2009, 01:34 AM   #112
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As Skybean notes, Shanghai and Shenzhen (probably Beijing too) probably have more highrises than Hong Kong. Hong Kong has more actual skyscrapers though - as in buildings over 35 (or so) floors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyronin View Post
Though, for the record, I wouldn't exactly call that just a fraction of Shanghai, this is roughly the area depicted in it:
spliff fairy was probably referring to the fact that the aerial photo in question leaves out most of the areas in which the majority of skyscrapers and highrises in Shanghai are located (ie. Puxi within the beltway + much of Pudong). It only shows the northern parts of central Shanghai (ie. within the beltway) and a tiny fraction of Pudong, leaving out huge districts such as Xuhui, Luwan and Huangpu (some of the most dense in the world).
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:06 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyronin View Post
Thats unlikely, as it would necessitate having nearly all of the metro population living high-rises (which we all know is not the case). In Toronto, we have "only" 1,700 high-rises in the municipality of 2.5 million, which house roughly 1/3 of the population. By this "rule", even if 100% of the municipality of Sao Paulo's population lived in high-rises, it'd have under 23,000, or 40,000 for the entire metro.

I'd still argue Sao Paulo to have the most high-rises of any city in the world, but a more likely metro-wide figure would be in the 10,000-20,000 range.
Well, the average high-rise population in toronto is ~500 (830.000/1.700), counting residential and commercial buildings? That's a loot, considering that the residential average should be larger. In São Paulo I think that half of the 11 million municipal population is housed in high-rises, 5.5 million inside 30 thousand buildings is about 180 per building. And a 12 story building with 2 apartments per story should have about 50-70 inhabitants.

So: if from the 30 thousand, 27 thousand are residential, then we have about 200 hundred per building. The average number of floors should be 15-18 in São Paulo, with 3-5 apartments per floor gives about 10-15 people per floor or 150-180/225-270 people per building.

You should note that the average highrise in São Paulo is smaller than the average high-rise in any city of anglo saxon america. The largest skyscraper in São Paulo by floor area has only about 1.2 million square feet, the sears tower has 4.6 million square feet and in new york the largest building I think is the GE building, with has 3 million square feet. In Brazil we have cities with a loot of small high-rises, in contrast to north american cities.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:35 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
I dont get it where is Shanghai? All these news sources reference Emporis


International Herald Tribune, 2005, http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/...ness/boom.php:

"This year alone, Shanghai will complete towers with more space for living and working than there is in all the office buildings in New York City. That will happen in a city that already has 4,000 skyscrapers, almost double the number in New York. And there are designs to build 1,000 more by the end of this decade."


Bloomberg 2005, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...fer=news_index

"Shanghai, the nation's commercial capital, built 6,704 towers of 11 or more stories since 1990, city government figures for 2004 show -- 4,312 of them in the past five years. New York has 5,467 buildings of 12 stories or more, according to Emporis."

OhMyNews, http://english.ohmynews.com/articlev...55010&rel_no=1

"Shanghai already has 4,000 skyscrapers, almost double than in New York. As if all this were not enough, there are projected to be about 1,000 more by the end of the decade."
I find very difficult to believe I read that New York has 500 million square feet of office space in 600 big buildings. How much space per head has a average chinese apartment? 200 square feet? That means that shanghai would be housing 2.5 million people per year in highrises. I am only counting as if all were residential buildings because about 90% of the new high-rises in shanghai are residential.

And ff you count the smaller office buildings in new york, then you should double the number to 1 billion square feet and the total number of new residents per year in shanghai becomes 5 million!

New lets be realistic: If shanghai metro area receives 1 million new residents per year and 60% of them go to highrises (with I think is an exageration), we have 600 thousand people per year on highrises, with makes about 120 million square feet of highrise space, or 12% of new york's office space.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:43 AM   #115
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My perception of the number is now:

Shanghai had 6,700 high-rises in 2005. New they should have about 8-9 thousand, considering that they are building about 600-800 highrises per year.

For comparison, in late 20's New York (the most intense skyscraper building period in new york city) only about 100-150 highrises were build per year.

Só New York today has 5,500 with is about 65% of Shanghai 8/9 thousand.

São Paulo's 30/40 thousand are still the largest concentration of highrises in the world.

Hong Kong should have about 7 thousand, with means that in 2005 Shanghai probably surpassed hong kong in number of highrises.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 06:27 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post

This is a fraction of Shanghai - bear in mind the building in the top right is the tallest completed roof in the world,
and the shorter one in front of it is taller than the Empire State Building:
Well, since the shorter one is about a little smaller than the ESB by pinnacle height. So with this measurement of scale this area of Shanghai can be compared to midtown manhattam:



The angle of manhattan photo is a bit to low, but a didn't find better pictures.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 06:38 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Well, the average high-rise population in toronto is ~500 (830.000/1.700), counting residential and commercial buildings? That's a loot, considering that the residential average should be larger. In São Paulo I think that half of the 11 million municipal population is housed in high-rises, 5.5 million inside 30 thousand buildings is about 180 per building. And a 12 story building with 2 apartments per story should have about 50-70 inhabitants.

So: if from the 30 thousand, 27 thousand are residential, then we have about 200 hundred per building. The average number of floors should be 15-18 in São Paulo, with 3-5 apartments per floor gives about 10-15 people per floor or 150-180/225-270 people per building.
Good point. Its not uncommon for apartments here to house upwards of a thousand people in a single building (same thing in China). In Brazil they tend to be much smaller.


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anglo saxon america
As an aside, its just "Anglo America", Anglo-Saxon is an ethnic group, not language group.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 12:08 PM   #118
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Hong Kong density is insane...

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Old January 21st, 2009, 12:21 PM   #119
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Wow, that a whole lot of assumptions and guesstimates and not a single fact or source presented in your posts, Guaporense.


"If shanghai metro area receives 1 million new residents per year and 60% of them go to highrises (with I think is an exageration)"

The vast majority of the people moving into highrises in Shanghai are hundreds of thousands of current residents trading their apartments in old neighbourhoods or midrise commieblocks for apartments in newly built highrises. On top of that you have all the migrants that come in millions every year to the city.

You're disputing the sources that the_spliff_fairy provides, yet you don't have anything to come up with yourself. Even the "data" on which you base your guesstimates are your own as well (average size of highrise buildings etc.). Your posts are literally covered in numbers, all made up by yourself.


I don't think anyone in this thread has disputed that there for now are more highrise buildings in Sao Paulo than any other city in the world.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 12:52 PM   #120
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Quote:
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The vast majority of the people moving into highrises in Shanghai are hundreds of thousands of current residents trading their apartments in old neighbourhoods or midrise commieblocks for apartments in newly built highrises. On top of that you have all the migrants that come in millions every year to the city.
I belive most of the migrants move to the apartments in old neighbourhoods or midrise commieblocks left by old residents.
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