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Old November 26th, 2008, 09:38 PM   #21
ChrisZwolle
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There are also some issues about the new digital tagograph in Europe.

It registers the driving time and speeds of trucks for 365 days.
The Dutch government can fine a truckdriver up to 4 weeks later, and intends to enforce it very strictly. However there are some problems.

1) If you get in a traffic jam near the end of your driving time, it's not always possible to find a rest area on time. 1 - 2 hours delay in Dutch traffic jams are not uncommon, hence they are going over the driving time.

2) Even if the truck has driven a couple of meters to the loading dock, this is seen as driving time, and the driver therefore does not get enough resting time. They also get fined for this.

This all leads to the point that it becomes harsh for Dutch truckers to compete with other companies/countries, which will cost the economy a lot of money. Besides that, it gives a lot of unhappiness amongst truckdrivers about the digital tagograph.

It will be better if speeds below 30 km/h are not registered as driving time, according to the Dutch truck magazine "truckstar".

The digital tagograph can also easily be used to commit fraud, by hanging a magnete at the gearbox. (where the tagograph reads the information about speed and driving times). This also put companies behind those who don't play by the rules.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 11:18 PM   #22
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Apparantly, some Renault Magnums can reach 140 km/h in the Netherlands
omg i cannot imagine what would happen if Xsara had to break little bit harder!

btw, i have noticed tha Magnums are rare in sentral and eastern Europe. i saw that Spanish drivers often use them.
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Yes, and quite expensive. A trip of say, 500 - 600 kilometers through Germany costs about € 150,- Ofcourse, it's us at the counter who pay the price. Though I hope the funds will be used to widen certain Autobahnen which faces heavy truck traffic.
Germany has recently raised prices, especially for Euro3 trucks. but in Austria a 300 km trip costs you about 150€! for instance, Spielfeld - Suben is about 305 km and price is about 145€
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Old November 27th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=ChrisZwolle;28581348]Apparantly, some Renault Magnums can reach 140 km/h in the Netherlands

They can in the UK too, along with Scanias, Volvos & Dafs. Just watch them all on a Sunday morning heading down the M6 after coming off the Irish ferry.

Road haulage is the dominant form of transport in the UK - more so than Europe due to poor rail infrastructure. Over 90% of freight goes by road, not always popular but still necessary. Problems are the same Europe wide - poor parking, competition from the Eastern Europeans (no tax for them in the UK) and general recession - many drivers losing their jobs currently.

Problems with digitach are that it records 2 minutes driving minimum every time you move, even if it's just 100 meters. This can lose you over an hour a day for many drivers when queuing or moving around in depots. This just adds to pressure in a job where you're always watching the clock.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #24
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Currently, Longer trucks are allowed in mostly Scandinavian countries, but also in the Netherlands. They look like this:



The advantage of them is that you can ship more freight tonnage with few extra fuel consumption and more cost-efficient. They are maximal 25,25 meters long in the Netherlands and are allowed to weigh 60 tonnes. Sweden is currently testing 90 tonnes and 30 meter long trucks. They have started testing it in Denmark too (25,25m, 60 tonnes)
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Old November 27th, 2008, 02:51 PM   #25
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Now I'd really like to see them reversing...
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Old November 27th, 2008, 02:58 PM   #26
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you mean like this:

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Old November 27th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #27
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Roads here seem to be easily wide enough to cope with trucks, when they are built properly. However, there are large sections of highway - such as the Princes Highway between Rockdale and Heathcote, or Pennant Hills Road which serves as an interim link that should be bypassed with a tunnel within the next decade or so - that are not built to a standard suitable for the traffic they carry, but many are not likely to ever be upgraded or bypassed because the State government doesn't want to encourage private commuter traffic into the CBD, preferring to spend money on improving public transport.

The other problem, and I don't know if this is the same worldwide, is that nobody around here seems to have a clue how to drive a vehicle of any sort with respect and courtesy for other drivers. Large trucks tailgating small cars is a fairly common occurrence in and around Sydney, often on motorways where traffic moves at 110 km/h, but sometimes also on roads with speeds of around 60-70 km/h but frequent traffic lights and the like, and therefore more frequent braking.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #28
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What's the longest road train in Australia?
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Old November 27th, 2008, 06:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Currently, Longer trucks are allowed in mostly Scandinavian countries, but also in the Netherlands.
They are NOT allowed in Estonia, which is really weird IMO, because there's a lot of truck traffic between Estonia and Finland and between Russia and Estonia.

In Estonia, practically all goods are transported with trucks but since we have a very small population density, trucks really aren't that big of a problem if you exclude Tallinn ringroad and a few main highways. Long truck queues at Narva and Koidula border station are a big problem, though, but that could be solved by building some parking lots. Another issue is snow. Since trucks don't use winter tyres, they get stuck in snow very easily and may cause huge traffic jams in Tallinn.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 06:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
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What's the longest road train in Australia?
I'm not actually sure. We don't get them around here in suburbia much; at least, I haven't seen any really big ones around here. I remember seeing them a few years ago on a family trip to the Northern Territory, though.

According to Wikipedia, the longest road train ever driven was 1474.3 metres long, but obviously road trains that long would not be in common use. This would be about the longest they normally get:

[IMG]http://i38.************/s49kxu.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 27th, 2008, 06:53 PM   #31
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40 - 50 m ?
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Old November 27th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #32
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Ah, I just read the "Combination Lengths" section of that article. Apparently the maximum allowed length is 53.5 metres.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #33
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Imagine such a truck on the A20 near Rotterdam during a busy rush hour
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Old November 27th, 2008, 09:10 PM   #34
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those are definitely not suitable for Europe, also those which Chris showed are not neither. they are not only too long (it is not that problem, although it is because european loading docks are often at impossible narrow places), but they are much too heavy. trucks shouldn't weight over 40 tons never.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
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They are NOT allowed in Estonia, which is really weird IMO, because there's a lot of truck traffic between Estonia and Finland and between Russia and Estonia.

In Estonia, practically all goods are transported with trucks but since we have a very small population density, trucks really aren't that big of a problem if you exclude Tallinn ringroad and a few main highways. Long truck queues at Narva and Koidula border station are a big problem, though, but that could be solved by building some parking lots. Another issue is snow. Since trucks don't use winter tyres, they get stuck in snow very easily and may cause huge traffic jams in Tallinn.
Estonia is not SCANDINAVIA. Its baltic and east europe!
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Old November 27th, 2008, 09:29 PM   #36
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American style trucks would not fit in European cityscapes with those long noses. You usually have to take a turn with only inches to spare, even with no nose at all.

A problem in the Netherlands is that they "forget" trucks also use roads. They have all sorts of "traffic calming" (stylish word for: ****-up roads), like chicanes, speed bumps, narrows etc. However, these are much harder to negotiate with a truck. It's not uncommon to see a truck take a roundabout or turn with only 5 - 15 km/h, also outside urban areas. It's not that there is no space, they usually pick the minimum design standards, like roundabouts with a diameter meant for residential streets, not through highways. Another problem is cross slope on roundabouts. Some are too steep and trucks flip over, even at very low speeds.

Another problem is this style of poles in turns in low speed areas. Almost impossible to negotiate with trucks on narrow streets. These type of poles are extremely common in urbanized areas in the Netherlands


Another problem is the number of cyclists who do not pay attention with trucks. The Netherlands is densely cycled and trucks and cyclists often share the road. If you maneuver backwards into a loading dock near supermarkets, cyclists are flying around trucks like kamikaze.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #37
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Estonia is not SCANDINAVIA. Its baltic and east europe!
So? I don't see any obstacles why long trucks shouldn't be allowed here.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Currently, Longer trucks are allowed in mostly Scandinavian countries, but also in the Netherlands. They look like this:



The advantage of them is that you can ship more freight tonnage with few extra fuel consumption and more cost-efficient. They are maximal 25,25 meters long in the Netherlands and are allowed to weigh 60 tonnes. Sweden is currently testing 90 tonnes and 30 meter long trucks. They have started testing it in Denmark too (25,25m, 60 tonnes)
Even we Norwegians have allowed these "modular" lorries on certain selected main roads. My prediction is that they will be allowed on more roads in the years to come. There are obvious advantages, and with modern, 600+ HP trucks pulling these, they aren't slowing other traffic down either (52 tonnes has been allowed in Norway for decades, btw). However, with our road standard, they may cause problems in many places - as even common 18-metre lorries are...
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Old November 27th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Especially back in 2006, there was a major issue of Polexploitation.

Dutch trucking companies set up "offices" (usually just a post box) in Poland to "borrow" Polish drivers for trucking companies. This way, they've fired Dutch truckers, and put a Polish driver in the truck, saving a lot on wage costs. Quite some Dutch truckers lost their jobs this way. Ofcourse, it's a maze within the law, and illegaly, because they should pay Polish truckers according to Dutch wages, but they didn't. Hence, Polish truckers earned more, but had to drive very long shifts, like driving 4 weeks straight and then have a week off in Poland. This is why Dutch truckers where not very keen on Polish truckers (understatement) back then, though this attitude seems to change somewhat, and they accept Polish drivers. Ofcourse, wages increased a lot in Poland since their accession to the European Union, so it became less attractive to Dutch truck employers to hire Polish drivers.

Besides that, there are many rumours about how Polish drivers got their commercial license, it's said they didn't had a proper education, which exacerbates the public opinion, everytime a truck accident involved a Polish truck.
I can't see anything illegal in this, it is just a competition.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 11:13 PM   #40
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It's illegal to pay truckers less than Dutch minimum wage. The Dutch minimum wages were quite extraordinary for Poles back then.
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