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Old February 1st, 2013, 11:10 PM   #281
hmmwv
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Maybe he meant HEMU430X?
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 11:29 AM   #282
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Possibly, but I feel he was just getting over-excited about KTX-II. It is a good solid modern train, no doubt.
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Old March 21st, 2013, 04:25 PM   #283
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Ministry mulls new operator for high-speed rail

The government is considering a second state-run company to operate the new Korea Train Express (KTX) business, a high-speed railway system, in a bid to increase competition in the railway industry. Currently, Korea Railroad (Korail) is the sole KTX operator.

The Ministry of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs said in release yesterday that nothing has been decided. However, it admitted that setting up a new public firm to operate the new KTX service, which is scheduled to be launched in 2015 from Suseo Station in southern Seoul, is under consideration. Sources said the ministry is expected to report its plan to President Park Geun-hye next week or so.

Seo Seung-hwan, minister of land, transport and maritime affairs, said during his confirmation hearing the ministry will find a “third solution” on the new KTX business.

Saenuri Party lawmaker Cho Hyun-ryong also said he will propose a law to establish a second state-run railroad operator.

Korail’s debt totaled 13.5 trillion won ($12 billion) at the end of 2011 and is suffering from the failure of the Yongsan International Business District development project.

But not all parties welcome the idea. The Transport Labor & Policy Research Institute issued a report last week, saying establishment of another public railroad operator will create more problems.

“There will be no effect of competition as regional monopoly will be strengthened,” the institute said in its analysis report. “The cost of establishing the new firm will be 300 billion won to 400 billion won, and an additional 60 billion won will be needed every year for operation.”

Currently, some transportation-related business is double operated in Korea. For instance, Seoul subway system is managed by Seoul Metro, which covers lines No. 1, 2, 3 and 4, and Seoul Metropolitan Rapid Transit, which covers lines No. 5, 6, 7, and 8.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 09:55 AM   #284
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Wouldn't forming a second (!) state run railway be throwing good money after bad? Unless it's a scheme to get out of onerous labor conditions.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 03:51 PM   #285
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It is especially confusing when you consider that the Suseo line that this is supposedly being set up to operate is really just from Suseo station until it merges with the Gyeongbu line north of Cheonan-Asan, the northernmost station outside of Seoul, unless they're also thinking they'd hand over control of other lines to this new company in the future.

I think that almost as likely, they'd do this to try and continue construction of new lines under the name of this new company in order to get around the big debt that Korail has accumulated.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 12:46 AM   #286
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HEMU-430X Sets New Korean Speed Record : 421.4 km/h








HEMU-430X has recorded a speed of 421.4 km/h on March, 28th. After this, the test would be focused on the stabilization of HEMU-430X until the construction of Honam High Speed Rail is completed in 2014. When the dedicated test line(Gongju ~Jeongeup, 88km) on Honam HSR Line is completed, HEMU-430X will test the target speed (430km/h).


Korean High-Speed Train Speed Record

- HSR-350X
  • 352.4 km/h (16th of December, 2004)
- HEMU-430X
  • 354.64 km/h ( 09th of September, 2012)
  • 360 km/h ( 02th of December, 2012)
  • 380.2 km/h ( 13th of December, 2012)
  • 401.4 km/h ( 27th of December, 2012)
  • 408.1 km/h ( 24th of January, 2013)
  • 413.3 km/h ( 24th of Februrary, 2013)
  • 417.3 km/h ( 24th of March, 2013)
  • 421.4 km/h ( 28th of March, 2013)
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Last edited by ruready1000; April 5th, 2013 at 01:28 AM.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 02:34 AM   #287
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Nice news. Are there any firm orders for it from Korean rail?
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Old April 5th, 2013, 03:47 AM   #288
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Looks like they're still pushing it, what's the target speed?
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Old April 5th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Nice news. Are there any firm orders for it from Korean rail?
There's no news about it, but I think it's almost certain that Korail will purchase it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Looks like they're still pushing it, what's the target speed?
The target speed is 430 km/h as its name HEMU-430X suggests.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 09:59 AM   #290
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Not aiming to go any higher than that?
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Old April 6th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Not aiming to go any higher than that?
I think they have no intention to go higher than the target speed for now. The reason is that the government already launched HEMU-500X Project last year and they rekcon that it will take 3~4 years to achieve it.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 12:56 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruready1000 View Post
I think they have no intention to go higher than the target speed for now. The reason is that the government already launched HEMU-500X Project last year and they rekcon that it will take 3~4 years to achieve it.
Is that going to be a maglev project or traditional HSR? I know that maglev is a whole new infrastructure, but if I remember correctly traditional HSR service above 350km/h isn't very cost-effective, nevermind that nowhere in South Korea is 500km apart. Is it planned predominantly as an export model?

I guess I'm asking, could you direct me to any additional info about the HEMU-500x?
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Old April 7th, 2013, 04:40 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Is that going to be a maglev project or traditional HSR? I know that maglev is a whole new infrastructure, but if I remember correctly traditional HSR service above 350km/h isn't very cost-effective, nevermind that nowhere in South Korea is 500km apart. Is it planned predominantly as an export model?

I guess I'm asking, could you direct me to any additional info about the HEMU-500x?

A Comment from KRRI's Official Press Release about HEMU-430X's new speed record mentioned it
and KRRI mention '500km/h train development' at their homepage:
Quote:
또한 “앞으로 3년내 500km/h 기술을 선보이고, 5년내 600km/h의 핵심기술을 개발·도입되면, 우리나라 전체가 1시간대 통근권으로 바뀌게 되어 지역균형발전을 앞당기고, 세계 최고의 고속철도 기술을 보유하여 새로운 성장동력이 될 것” 이라고 밝혔다.

If we can present 500km/h technology within 3 years and develop and introduce the core technology of 600km/h train within 5 years.........
According to the presentation of Ministry of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs & KICTEP (Korea Institute of Construction and Transportation Technology Evaluation and Planning), Wheel-on-rail type 500km/h train (HEMU-500X) are being developed :





Lastly, News about 'HEMU-500X To Be Developed'
Quote:
A state-run think tank said on Jan. 23 that it will begin the process of developing a new high-speed train with a maximum speed of 500 kilometers per hour this year.

The Korea Institute of Construction and Transportation Technology Evaluation and Planning said it will spend about 400 billion won (US$375 million) in 2013 to carry out 10 research and development (R&D) projects, including the development of technologies for the new bullet train, named the "HEMU-500X." HEMU stands for high-speed electric multiple unit.


The bullet train will be faster than the HEMU-430X with a maximum speed of 430 kilometers per hour that has undergone test runs since last year.

Source
To summarize :

1. The research institutes(KICTEP and KRRI) are studying and developing 'Wheel-on-rail' type 500km/h train. Whether it can be commercialized or not, of course, is another matter.

2. KRRI(Korean Railroad Research Institute) has a taskforce team developing Super Speed Maglev train, but the details are unknown.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #294
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Quote:
...but if I remember correctly traditional HSR service above 350km/h isn't very cost-effective,
Good point aquaticko. Specifically energy consumption due to wind resistance above 300km/h is considerable- increasing at approximately the square of speed. This is likely why service speeds on HSR systems worldwide top out at 300~320km/h. Of course, developing a trainset capable of one-off 400~500km/h speeds may be a good marketing exercise.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #295
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Especially if they want to export the technology. I wonder if it'll work in Korea due to the amount of time the ktx spends in tunnels?
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Old April 7th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
Especially if they want to export the technology. I wonder if it'll work in Korea due to the amount of time the ktx spends in tunnels?
Yes, high speeds make good advertising copy. As for tunnels, they actually increase energy consumption at high speeds (see below), though it can be mitigated partially by aerodynamics and increased tunnel diameters. The question is that for a relatively small country like S. Korea, whether speeds above say 350km/h are really necessary for commercial service, as you have to think about the tradeoffs in terms of braking distance, capacity constraints imposed by having a few very high speed trains taking up pathings, and the all important question of operating costs.



*
Quote:
Tunnels.
The simulations carried out by London Imperial College [21] indicate that a
notional 10 km tunnel would increase energy needs at 320 km/h by 157, 107 or 65 kWh for tunnels with diameters of 8.5, 9.8 and 12 metres respectively. These results of course depend on the rolling stock and other assumptions applied to the simulation.
source:
http://www.greengauge21.net/wp-conte...on-impacts.pdf (page 17)
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Old April 7th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #297
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At the moment the ktx takes a lot less time than the slow train/express buses so probably not. Especially as with the current high speed line extensions (목포Mokpo/Yeosu여수/) the central portion from Daejeon to north of Cheonan-Asan must be near or at capacity. Additionally the tracks nearby Seoul are at least quad-tracked but still too busy to run at top speed.

Aside from the possibility of exporting the technology, an advantage of having trains capable of higher speeds would be better efficiency at lower speeds and then shaving a few minutes off the trip where full speed is possible?
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Old April 7th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Good point aquaticko. Specifically energy consumption due to wind resistance above 300km/h is considerable- increasing at approximately the square of speed. This is likely why service speeds on HSR systems worldwide top out at 300~320km/h. Of course, developing a trainset capable of one-off 400~500km/h speeds may be a good marketing exercise.
With increasing speed increases signifficantly the wear of the infrastructure. This is another cause of the unfeasibility of speeds above 320-350kmh.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #299
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Thanks, ruready1000.

I guess it is useful as a tech exercise, and considering that pace the the KTX system is developing, it clearly deserves more international attention, but they'd do just as well to increase reliability and diversify both their rolling stock and number of services. Pursuing double-decker trains and a more efficient, lower-speed train (~225km/h) would seem like at least as wise an investment.

Speaking of, I haven't heard anything about the tilting train experiment (TTX) for a while. Anything there?
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Old April 8th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Good point aquaticko. Specifically energy consumption due to wind resistance above 300km/h is considerable- increasing at approximately the square of speed. This is likely why service speeds on HSR systems worldwide top out at 300~320km/h. Of course, developing a trainset capable of one-off 400~500km/h speeds may be a good marketing exercise.
You're right. Many rail fans are thinking that it's a great success if the commercial service could reach 330 km/h ~ 350 km/h.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
Especially if they want to export the technology. I wonder if it'll work in Korea due to the amount of time the ktx spends in tunnels?
It may be hard in Gyeongbu Line because there's so many tunnel. But Honam Line is passing the plains, so you can expect faster speed in this line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
At the moment the ktx takes a lot less time than the slow train/express buses so probably not. Especially as with the current high speed line extensions (목포Mokpo/Yeosu여수/) the central portion from Daejeon to north of Cheonan-Asan must be near or at capacity. Additionally the tracks nearby Seoul are at least quad-tracked but still too busy to run at top speed.

Aside from the possibility of exporting the technology, an advantage of having trains capable of higher speeds would be better efficiency at lower speeds and then shaving a few minutes off the trip where full speed is possible?
Gyeongbu HSR line is competitive against express buses, slower train and airline. But the current Honam HSR line (from/to Mokpo) and Jeolla Line (from/to Yeosu, via Honam Line) run on conventional rail so that its competitiveness against rival transportations is relatively weak and will remain weak till the dedicated high-speed rail line open in 2014 or 2015.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Thanks, ruready1000.

I guess it is useful as a tech exercise, and considering that pace the the KTX system is developing, it clearly deserves more international attention, but they'd do just as well to increase reliability and diversify both their rolling stock and number of services. Pursuing double-decker trains and a more efficient, lower-speed train (~225km/h) would seem like at least as wise an investment.

Speaking of, I haven't heard anything about the tilting train experiment (TTX) for a while. Anything there?
There's a plan to develop high-speed duplex trains in the same presentation data that I attached above. For TTX, see this link.
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