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Old March 25th, 2014, 04:21 PM   #361
aquaticko
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Considering the number of problems they had when the KTX-II came out, I'd imagine they're more hesitant to just jump right onto KTX-III orders, particularly considering it's an entirely new, EMU-style train compared to the locomotives they're used to working with.
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Old March 26th, 2014, 09:36 AM   #362
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KTX-II was the first high speed train Hyundai Rotem built without outside assistence. KTX-I is a TGV derivative after all.

What I find interesting is that in a lot of countries the former practice of building a prototype and first thoroughly testing that before building series models has been abolished. (In this case I do not consider HEMU-430X is to be the prototype for KTX-III, because it was conceived as an experimental train, just like the FASTECH360S was for the E5 series). Whichever way you put it, despite all the testing effort you may put in it, a lot of problems with new train models only reveal themselves in actual use (consider the ICE3 in this context).
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Old March 26th, 2014, 04:13 PM   #363
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You find that in a lot of products: software, automobiles, even infrastructure products. While you may be able to simulate a typical high-speed trainset's usage patterns, if you're testing a prototype (or experimental train), it simply isn't the real thing. And mass production, no matter how perfect it is, is never absolutely perfect, so you get little defects here and there in production trainsets.

However, I'm not sure that your distinction between a prototype and experimental train is all that clear. Just because HEMU-430x is supposedly an experimental model, and not a built-to-purpose prototype of the KTX-III, it could end up serving as a prototype if they choose not to change too much on the production trainsets. And as to whether or not they will do that, we don't know at this point.
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Old March 27th, 2014, 09:46 AM   #364
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My distinction between a prototype and a experimental train is very clear: A prototype is exactly the model that is going into series production, unless some flaw is found during testing that requires changes. An experimental train has several provisions for testing purposes you'll never find on a production model.
The purpose of a prototype, and that it is suposed to be the blue print model for the series production, is that apart from testing you can also use it in regular service to iron out the problems before the big production run starts.

In case of HEMU-430X, it was never intended as a prototype, but as an experimentel train for high speeds (430 km/h). Therefore it has several provisions for that. The future production model may look the same, but 'under the hood' they will probably be very different.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 11:09 AM   #365
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A video I took when I was in Korea.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 10:23 PM   #366
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My distinction between a prototype and a experimental train is very clear: A prototype is exactly the model that is going into series production, unless some flaw is found during testing that requires changes. An experimental train has several provisions for testing purposes you'll never find on a production model.
The purpose of a prototype, and that it is suposed to be the blue print model for the series production, is that apart from testing you can also use it in regular service to iron out the problems before the big production run starts.

In case of HEMU-430X, it was never intended as a prototype, but as an experimentel train for high speeds (430 km/h). Therefore it has several provisions for that. The future production model may look the same, but 'under the hood' they will probably be very different.
Sure, it may not have been intended as a prototype, but as long as an experimental set meets all the pertinent regulations for revenue service (though certainly it may not), there's nothing stopping it from being used as such. Considering that Korail is planning to run the production KTX-III's at 370km/h (last I heard), and assuming even just a 10% operational/design max speed difference, it seems quite likely that the HEMU-430x isn't that far off of being a prototype, regardless of KRRI's intentions for it.

If that 370km/h planned operational speed is still accurate, they'll have to upgrade the tracks to allow it. As the tracks are designed for 350km/h running at most, I'd not be surprised to see operational speeds drop down to that level. I suppose there's no significant non-budgetary harm in over-engineering.
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Old April 4th, 2014, 03:33 AM   #367
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HEMU-400x was the research predecessor of HEMU-430x and won't be developed any further.
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Old May 10th, 2014, 10:40 AM   #368
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Bullet train with maximum speed of 250km/h built

Hyundai Rotem, South Korea’s biggest maker of rolling stocks, said Friday it has built a train which can run at a maximum speed of 250km per hour.

The train belongs to the category of mid- to high-speed bullet trains, and adopts a dispersed power pack arrangement system, which enables all carriages to send power to the tracks. Under the conventional system, locomotives at the front and rear move the rolling stock forward.

Global demand for mid- to high-speed trains has risen in recent years, the company said. Trains belonging to the 250km/h category have been built by Germany’s Siemens and France’s Alstom.

Hyundai Rotem developed the train in line with the government’s plan to link the eastern and central areas with the rest of the country, company officials said.

Previously, the company built the KTX-Sancheon train with a top speed of 300km/h, and a test run of the next-generation HEMU-430X (High-Speed Electric Multiple Unit 430km/h eXperimental) is underway.

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Old May 10th, 2014, 02:20 PM   #369
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It's about time that they built that class of train. Hopefully, they'll be able to offer cheaper tickets than the standard KTX trains, and thus increase intercity rail ridership to new highs. In terms of both size and population patterns, South Korea is the perfect country for comprehensive HSR service. They could probably do without commercial domestic flights, in the future, if they build out the rail infrastructure enough.
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Old May 10th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
It's about time that they built that class of train. Hopefully, they'll be able to offer cheaper tickets than the standard KTX trains, and thus increase intercity rail ridership to new highs. In terms of both size and population patterns, South Korea is the perfect country for comprehensive HSR service. They could probably do without commercial domestic flights, in the future, if they build out the rail infrastructure enough.
With a better HSR network, all domestic flights within the peninsula (South of the border) should become obsolete with Jeju island being the only exception for obvious reasons...
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Old May 10th, 2014, 09:32 PM   #371
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With a better HSR network, all domestic flights within the peninsula (South of the border) should become obsolete with Jeju island being the only exception for obvious reasons...
Well, they have actually talked before about building an undersea tunnel to Jeju from Mokpo, which I think would be a great idea. The Seoul-Jeju air route is the world's busiest, and building the world's longest undersea tunnel would be a great way to demonstrate Korean prowess in construction and engineering (although I'm sure they'd recruit some overseas expertise, as would anyone for a project of that magnitude). Not mention it could potentially offer a cheaper alternative to flying to Jeju.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 11:35 AM   #372
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Bullet trains go wireless

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Consumer electronics such as smartphones and toothbrushes are not the only things that can be charged wirelessly anymore. Korean researchers have developed ways to adapt such technology into high-speed railways.

The Korea Railroad Research Institute recently introduced the world’s first bullet train that can be powered wirelessly without overhead electric grids, in Uiwang, Gyeonggi Province.

The researcher demonstrated the so-called online electric train, named “Hemu,” equipped with the wireless electric charging system in some of its engines.

As soon as it can fully embed the system in all eight engines required to power and operate the mobile train, Hemu can emerge as the country’s next-generation bullet train, traveling faster than the KTX and able to replace it.
wirelessly powered high-speed train



This wirelessly powered high-speed train was unveiled by the Korean Railroad Research Institute on Tuesday in Uiwang, Gyeonggi Province. (KRRI)

“When fully equipped, the wireless electric train can go up to 430 kilometers per hour,” a KRRI official said.

Hemu will not only be able to go faster but also gain greater flexibility and mobility as it gets its power from underneath the rail tracks, where there is another system that can constantly transmit and feed 1 megawatt of electricity to the speeding train.

The power it receives is equivalent to running 10 large buses, the KRRI noted.

Given that it does not need conventional grids, Korea will be able to reduce construction and maintenance costs for the new train, which has so far showed 83 percent efficiency in wireless power transmission.

Air and noise pollution can also be reduced if online electric trains can replace diesel-powered ones.

Also, this technology could lead the rail industry to develop and operate other types such as double-decker trains.

The KRRI said it may take more time to fully commercialize the train, noting that it could perhaps do so in phases after 2017.

“We will make further efforts to commercialize the train by developing smaller and lighter power equipment and securing a stable wireless electric transmission,” said Lee Jun-ho, senior researcher at the institute.

The rail researcher first developed a prototype of its wireless electric train in 2013 with the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, a state-run research university that also invented a wirelessly powered electric bus.

By Kim Young-won ([email protected])

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Old May 23rd, 2014, 05:50 PM   #373
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That's really, really cool. Reduced construction and maintenance costs, reduced aerodynamic drag, reduced noise both from that source and from pantograph contact...it seems like the only downside is a reduction in energy efficiency, but that will likely change with further development of wireless charging technology.

Otherwise, totally fantastic.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 10:15 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
That's really, really cool. Reduced construction and maintenance costs, reduced aerodynamic drag, reduced noise both from that source and from pantograph contact...it seems like the only downside is a reduction in energy efficiency, but that will likely change with further development of wireless charging technology.

Otherwise, totally fantastic.
Several media reported this news and they mentioned some problems to be solved :

- At the test the gap between the current collector module and feeding module was 3cm. Considering the vibration on high speed, however, it should work even if the gap is 8cm.

- The energy effcciency(83%) should be increased to above 90%.

- The higher construction cost should be reduced.




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Old May 27th, 2014, 05:44 AM   #375
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Bullet trains go wireless




Maybe the new HSR from KL ,Malaysia to Singapore could use the tech? Maybe the Comersial version Mark 1?
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Old May 27th, 2014, 05:32 PM   #376
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Maybe the new HSR from KL ,Malaysia to Singapore could use the tech? Maybe the Comersial version Mark 1?
They want to develop practical model within 3 years and commercial model within 5years, but it's just their own plan.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 01:05 AM   #377
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Why hasn't Japan tried to implement this? I was under the impression that JR was under pressure to reduce noise, and wire/catenary contact was one of the main culprits...
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:10 AM   #378
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Well, KAIST has been working intensively on wireless electricity transmission for a long while. They already have what they call the OLEV (online electric vehicle) buses running around Namsan in Seoul, and full wirelessness would be an important advance for a lot of Korean industries.

Also, the Gyeongbu HSL carries essentially all HSR traffic in Korea (with only the Honam and Suseo lines being near-term major additions, and some minor services on the Gyeongjeon line), so it'd be very easy to implement wireless HSR throughout the entire system, as opposed to Japan's numerous and rather lengthy Shinkansen lines.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 10:46 AM   #379
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Why hasn't Japan tried to implement this? I was under the impression that JR was under pressure to reduce noise, and wire/catenary contact was one of the main culprits...
Japan is constructing Maglev line now, which is, if you think about it, much more impressive.
When it comes to Shinkansen, as aquaticko said, Japan has much more elaborate and extensive HSR lines. Converting them would be a nightmare even though as far as railway technology(and many other technologies too) goes, I'm sure that Japan has no peers.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #380
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Japan is constructing Maglev line now, which is, if you think about it, much more impressive. When it comes to Shinkansen, as aquaticko said, Japan has much more elaborate and extensive HSR lines. Converting them would be a nightmare even though as far as railway technology(and many other technologies too) goes, I'm sure that Japan has no peers.
The Shikansen lines as well as the Korean KTX lines share track close to cities, I'm not sure how well the wireless power would work if an overhead line was still required for other trains
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