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Old October 26th, 2014, 10:26 AM   #441
ruready1000
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Gwangju-songjeong station rendering image (광주송정역)


















Gwangju-songjeong station under construction (images from news clip)
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Old October 26th, 2014, 11:25 AM   #442
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Could you add the source links? Thanks for the pictures! Good job

If you want, you may copy on the new Korea Rail Transport / 대한민국의 철도 thread (Korean Forum)
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Old October 27th, 2014, 10:54 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post
Could you add the source links? Thanks for the pictures! Good job
source
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Old October 27th, 2014, 11:13 AM   #444
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Thanks ruready1000, those links from korean sites type naver/daum blogs and forums are important to try to follow the korean railways updates. It's impossible to find from conventional western ways: Google
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Old October 27th, 2014, 06:43 PM   #445
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This is an information from tonight's KBS News 9. It's about the HEMU 430-X or its development.

Starts on 37:21


Korean High Speed Railway is not ready for the HEMU-430X if want more than 350km/h top speed (max tested is 421 km/h). They needs more money for research budget, 110.1B ₩ (around 81 million euro if I understand well...)





This paper in 2011 wants the major nation hub (Seoul) connected in 90 minutes...



When simulations with HEMU 430X operates like current KTX Seoul - Busan stopping at Daejeon and Daegu station, the travel time is 1h 58min, average speed is 219km/h (for 350km/h top speed)





Other informations I've been told, at 305km/h a track switcher on Dongdaegu - Busan sector (newest with Slab track) broke down and trains runs now at 150km/h when pass the stations... Maybe for that, they needs an extra 670B ₩ (500 million euro) for infrastructure improvements.

Please, the information is so confusing. Someone who are korean native could translate the news report, thanks!
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Old October 27th, 2014, 07:13 PM   #446
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Full text of the KBS news report from Naver:

Quote:
<앵커 멘트>

고속열차로 서울에서 부산까지 한시간 반 시대를 열겠다는 정부의 계획, 결국 실현 불가능한 걸로 확인됐습니다.

현재 개발하고 있는 시속 420킬로미터급 고속열차 해무가 투입돼도 평균 운행 속도는 시속 200킬로미터대에 그칠 것이라는 겁니다.

그 이유가 뭔지 박진영 기자가 취재했습니다.

<리포트>

2007년부터 개발에 나선 차세대 고속열차 '해무'입니다.

연구 6년만인 지난해 3월 세계에서 4번째로 시속 421km 시험 주행에 성공했습니다.

총 예산은 천 백억 원.

이르면 내년에 개발이 완료될 예정입니다.

국토교통부는 '해무'개발에 성공하면 2020년에는 전국 1시간 반 시대를 열 수 있다고 공언했습니다.

서울-부산 간 거리가 지금보다 1시간 정도 빨라지는 겁니다.

과연 실현 가능한 계획일까?

철도시설공단의 모의 운행 결과,

해무를 투입했을 때 서울-부산 간 소요 시간은 1시간 54분으로 조사됐습니다.

앞 열차가 없고 두 개 역만 서는 최적의 조건이었지만, 정차 시간을 포함한 평균 운행 속도는 시속 219km에 불과했습니다.

<녹취> 철도시설공단 관계자 : "기존 KTX와 같이 운행하고 두 개 이상의 역에 정차할 경우에는 1시간 54분보다 운행시간이 더 늘어날 가능성이 있습니다."

원인은 해무의 속도를 감당할 전용 선로와 신호 시스템 등이 갖춰져 있지 않기 때문입니다.

이 때문에 해무 운행 속도를 시속 350km까지 높이기 위해선 기반 시설이 설치돼야 하고, 해무 개발비용의 6배 수준인 6천 7백억 원을 추가 투입해야 합니다.

<인터뷰> 박기춘(국회 국토교통위원장) : "보여주기에 불과한 천문학적 혈세 낭비 사업이 전혀 통제되지 못한 채 여전히 지속되고 있습니다."

꿈의 고속열차를 완성해도 제 속도를 낼 수 없는 상황.

그런데도 국토부는 시속 600km급 고속열차를 또 개발 중입니다.

KBS 뉴스 박진영입니다.


Translation (Google):

Quote:
<Lead>

High-speed train with getdaneun government plans to open an hour and a half times from Seoul to Busan, in the end, it was determined geolro unrealistic.

In class 420 kilometers per hour are currently developing a high-speed train HEMU dwaedo average operating speed is 200 kilometers per hour will cease for that.

What the reason was a reporter covering JYP.

<Report>

From 2007 to develop the next generation of high-speed trains helix 'HEMU'.

Six years after the last study was successful test run at 421km per hour on March 4th world.

The total budget is one hundred ten billion won.

This development is expected to be early next year to complete.


If successful, the Ministry of Transportation has 'HEMU' development has declared 2020 the country could open an hour and a half times.

Seoul-Busan'll cross the street faster than an hour now.

Is it really feasible plan?

Results of the simulation runs Rail Network Authority,

When you put a HEMU Seoul-Busan travel time between surveys was 1 hour 54 minutes.

Do not stand in front of the train, but two yeokman optimal conditions, the average travel speed, including stops at the time was only an hour 219km.

<Interview> Rail Corporation officials: "If you like traditional KTX station and to stop at more than one station, the travel time is less than 1 hours and 54 minutes is more likely to increase."

The reason is because not only track and signal systems are not equipped to handle the speed of HEMU.

Because of this, make this infrastructure should be installed to increase the operating speed sea fog to 350km per hour, and you need to put additional six times the level of 670 billion won in the HEMU development costs.

<Interview> bakgichun (Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport Congress Chairman): "This show astronomical waste of taxpayers' money in the business cycle only lasts while you still could not control at all."

Even dream of completing a high-speed train that can not be a second rate status.

Yet another development is part of the Homeland 600km per hour high-speed train class.

The JYP KBS news.

Dear friends, I think HEMU project is dead on its commercial version. RIP.
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Last edited by Sr.Horn; October 27th, 2014 at 07:20 PM.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 08:37 PM   #447
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Well, they'd be stupid to give up altogether. >400km/h is barely feasible with traditional on-rail trains, and that kind of speed was unnecessary for a country as small as South Korea; these aren't new facts, and I don't think they're surprised to learn that. It's also not news that the rail infrastructure isn't build for >350km/h. Given all that, I find it hard to believe that this train wasn't designed with export at least somewhat in mind. China may have its own industry, but India doesn't, and neither does the U.S., and both of those are huge potential export markets, never even mind Brazil or, in the far future, various large African countries (Ethiopia, Kenya, Mozambique, Tanzania, Nigeria).

If HEMU was never going to be commercialized in Korea--though I'd be unsurprised if some version of it wasn't, and I have no doubt at all that Korea's rail infrastructure, including the Gyeongbu line, will be upgraded--then it's meant as a tester for what could be other trains meant for export. I suppose that'd make it a real prototype.
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Old October 28th, 2014, 09:03 AM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post
Dear friends, I think HEMU project is dead on its commercial version. RIP.


The main point of this news is :
  • Without upgrading the track and signal it's nearly impossible to meet the government's plan connecting major cities within 90 minutes.
    - According to the simulation it takes 114 minutes. Considering it stops at two station, it's not that bad.
    - And it's not apparent from this news that the simulation considers Suseo HSR, Daejeon and Daegu dedicated track.
  • In order to upgrade the track and signal, the cost is estmated at about 600 million dollar.

I think there's no chance that HEMU is not commercialized.
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Old October 28th, 2014, 11:22 AM   #449
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Simulation uses or considers the new High Speed access to Daegu and Daejeon?

By end of June, the construction works in the area looks advanced. Scheduled opening in 2015 so, I suppose the two dedicated track for Daejeon and Daegu will be finished soon or already (and they are testing)

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Old October 28th, 2014, 06:12 PM   #450
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With the new routing through Daejeon, Daegu will obviously be sped up, and as far as I know, the current switching at Daejeon is one of the spots on the line causing service to be slower than it otherwise would be, so that won't be an issue as soon as the work is complete.

What Korea will really need one speeds are up across the line is a medium-speed train (~250km/h) to supplement the new Saemaul EMU's (~150km/h) and expand service underneath the full high-speed KTX trains (which look to be maybe ~350km/h in the future with track upgrades), but last I heard, one of those is in the works, so things in Korea are progressing smoothly. It's just a question of whether the HEMU is going to be a big upgrade in speed that's accompanied by upgraded rails, or if it's going to end up being a smaller one that goes maybe 20km/h faster than KTX-I and KTX-II trains.

After all, a lot of places in Korea would be 90 minutes to Seoul or less without more infrastructure work than is already planned, anyway; Seoul-Busan is the longest possible route in South Korea (save for the tunnel to Jeju, which really should happen), so if that was still >90 minutes, that should be okay.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 12:02 PM   #451
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Another video about Honam HSR, showing how bridges are constructed:

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Old October 29th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #452
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Regarding the 90 minute figure- is it really necessary to have every point achieve that goal? Isn't being time-competitive with other forms of transport a more realistic metric? Also, reduced travel times to Seoul would likely further make the nation Seoul-centric. Given the location of the capital close to the border with a certain unpredictable power, wouldn't it be better to decentralize capital functions somewhat?

As for the video above, a very impressive flying junction, but I can see where the high costs come from.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Regarding the 90 minute figure- is it really necessary to have every point achieve that goal? Isn't being time-competitive with other forms of transport a more realistic metric? Also, reduced travel times to Seoul would likely further make the nation Seoul-centric. Given the location of the capital close to the border with a certain unpredictable power, wouldn't it be better to decentralize capital functions somewhat?

As for the video above, a very impressive flying junction, but I can see where the high costs come from.
I think the point of the 90-minutes-to-Seoul thing was so that, if people wanted, they could live in other cities while commuting to Seoul, or, alternatively, businesses could relocate to outside of Seoul while still being able to attract Seoulites to work for them.

As for decentralizing government functions, that's what Sejong is for. Frankly, I think that's a mistake, but nobody asked me. The only place that even vaguely rivals Seoul is Busan, and I think Seoul is just too big and essential, at this point, to do that much about it.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:03 PM   #454
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The thing that stretches the time now is that the KTX has to merge onto the old "normal" tracks when pulling into Dongdaegu. I'd say it takes up at least 15 minutes counting the exit and entrance onto the KTX tracks. It has to do the same thing in Daejeon. In order to speed up the time even more, they'd have to build new stations far from the city. Good for taxi drivers, bad for people who have to transfer to a taxi or bus to the city. Then your time savings is wiped out.

This business of 90 minutes to Seoul obviously doesn't count the time to get to and from the train station. If the station is far away like Ulsan or Shin Gyeongju or Kimcheon-Gumi (which is the farthest from the city and not even close to Gumi), then what's the point? The super fast train station is in the countryside and it takes at least 20-30 minutes to get back to the city where you live.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:06 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Regarding the 90 minute figure- is it really necessary to have every point achieve that goal? Isn't being time-competitive with other forms of transport a more realistic metric? Also, reduced travel times to Seoul would likely further make the nation Seoul-centric. Given the location of the capital close to the border with a certain unpredictable power, wouldn't it be better to decentralize capital functions somewhat?
They are doing that now by moving some operations to Sejong (세종) near Daejeon. But I heard that workers in Sejong don't like being so far from Seoul. Eventually the area will be built up.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 01:33 AM   #456
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I don't know why they don't just build dedicated HSR tracks through Dong-Daegu and Daejeon stations. Korea loves to give things to its construction industries, and something like this seems obvious.

On the subject of Sejong...I don't see it ever being a real rival to Seoul. Seoul's had decades as the economic, political, demographic, technological, and creative center of the country. Additionally, it has international credibility that no other city in the country can even come close to rivaling. There's just no way that a city new from the ground up, built kinda in the middle of nowhere, could hope to catch up, and therefore no way that people leaving Seoul for Sejong are every likely to be totally satisfied.

Maybe I'll be wrong, and I hope I am so the whole thing isn't a total embarrassment, but I expect that Sejong will be a failure.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 11:16 AM   #457
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This dedicated tracks are under construction (maybe too much money in the past?), opening is scheduled by 2015. In Dongdaegu they are lengthening the platforms and I think they are building a new building over tracks.

Daegu


Daejeon


Source: http://frdb2.wo.to/100.htm
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Old October 30th, 2014, 12:08 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
I don't know why they don't just build dedicated HSR tracks through Dong-Daegu and Daejeon stations. Korea loves to give things to its construction industries, and something like this seems obvious.
To me, there doesn't seem to be any room to build new tracks because the big cities are so crowded now. I looked at the map above and I don't see any difference between the red (new tracks?) and black (old tracks?) lines. They would have to tear down countless buildings to build brand new tracks which isn't worth it to me.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 01:25 PM   #459
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For Daegu and Daejeon red tracks are exclusive for High Speed trains, now they uses same tracks as Mugunghwa or Saemaul.

Blue line is the connection between the High Speed Line and the Conventional Line.

I think for both stations they are constructing new platforms on west side in Daejeon and south side in Dongdaegu.

You can see easily on Daum Map:

Daegu: http://dmaps.kr/mid5

Daejeon: http://dmaps.kr/mid7
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Old October 30th, 2014, 04:43 PM   #460
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Ah, I see the new tracks on the east side of Daejeon.

From Daum maps, are you talking about the orange and green boxes? Those are the subway stations. Otherwise, I don't see any new platforms. It seems those two stations have a platform under construction all the time.
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