SOUTH KOREA | High Speed Rail

[2co2co]

Originally Posted by ruready1000

originality is very important.

To be honest, I seriously doubt this.

Being original makes one look unique and important and therefore feel good, but this is too childish to count when talking about multi-Bi$ projects. "As long as it (economically/efficiently) works" is important.

The definition of "original" is highly dubious to start with (most cars have 4 wheels? Doesn't look too original!) "Intellectual property" and not "originality" is what matters.

[Micrav]

Originally Posted by agaristagari

HEMU-400X looks like a completely indigenous design

I like the style of this model

One thing I realized with those multimillion trains is that actually, you can very easily personalize fronts (the same for trams for example) and integrate this in the budget to sell the material, giving the needed touch to win the contest.

[sequoias]

The locomotive looks like a mix of a ICE-3 and a TGV. Nice train though.

[agaristagari]

Originally Posted by Micrav

One thing I realized with those multimillion trains is that actually, you can very easily personalize fronts (the same for trams for example) and integrate this in the budget to sell the material, giving the needed touch to win the contest.

No you cant. Front of the train is important when it comes to aerodynamics which is especially important in high speed trains. Also as long as trains are controlled by meatbags you need to have at least mediocre visibility from cockpit. You can also affect how much noise train makes with the shape of front. Shape of front of the train is trade-off between different engineering goals rather than something to please your eyes. Where you could have room for personalization are color scheme of train and interiors of the train but those are quite often decided by customer rather than manufacturer .

[Micrav]

Originally Posted by agaristagari

No you cant. Front of the train is important when it comes to aerodynamics which is especially important in high speed trains. Also as long as trains are controlled by meatbags you need to have at least mediocre visibility from cockpit. You can also affect how much noise train makes with the shape of front. Shape of front of the train is trade-off between different engineering goals rather than something to please your eyes. Where you could have room for personalization are color scheme of train and interiors of the train but those are quite often decided by customer rather than manufacturer .

I don't see in what you say a reason that goes again what I said, customers like to have differents fronts depending on their requirements. It is also a marketing trick and it is not always the graphics only. Front is not only engineering and the result of noise and aerodynamics calculations. If you know a bit about design and engineering, from one common result or calcultation, you can have hundreds of different designs. But of course, for economics, it is better to produce only one of them and apply for differents customers. It is also cultural. In some countries, all houses look the same (Netherlands, UK, former soviet countries, etc. In other, all houses must be different from one another (Belgium is typical for that.)

[bluemeansgo]

The shape of the front of the train is related to what engineering goals are more important.

Look at Japan's trains. SUPER long front nose, because they're concerned about noise entering and exiting tunnels.

This brings up a different issue. Different cultures are good at different things. Japan has a group culture and they focus on continuous improvement. They didn't invent a lot of things as original concepts, but they took existing ideas and made them better. As a result, many "innovations" have come about... or in other words, new inventions.

This idea of continuous improvement in all areas was popularized by Toyota, if I'm not mistaken.

Whether Korea copies and improves or designs from scratch is yet to be seen. But both are worthy. It really has more to do with the culture's attitude towards risk-taking than anything else.

Of course, we have to be careful when we label things... myself included.

[agaristagari]

Originally Posted by Micrav

I don't see in what you say a reason that goes again what I said, customers like to have differents fronts depending on their requirements. It is also a marketing trick and it is not always the graphics only. Front is not only engineering and the result of noise and aerodynamics calculations. If you know a bit about design and engineering, from one common result or calcultation, you can have hundreds of different designs. But of course, for economics, it is better to produce only one of them and apply for differents customers. It is also cultural. In some countries, all houses look the same (Netherlands, UK, former soviet countries, etc. In other, all houses must be different from one another (Belgium is typical for that.)

When did you last time see person going to train store buying blue train made by famous train brand and designed by famous train designer. Then driving her/his train around the town and showing of her/his cool new train to her/his friends. After couple of years buying new even more cooler train ?
It is not a car it is a train. Consumers don't buy trains railway COMPANIES do. Company is concerned of trains operating cost ( more aerodynamic less money wasted to electricity bill ) , NIMBYs whining how noise is distracting their beaty sleeps , reliability etc. If the person/s who decided what rolling stock their company buys on basis of beautiness of the train then they are not doing their job. Punctuality and quality of service are far more important for imago of transportation company than outlook of their train. Trains are long term investments for companies usually at least 20 years which further puts pressure on making good decision or other you will live with your bad decision for long. Do you really think train which have "innovative" front design at expense of some more important features will sell more ? Besides you dont even necessarily see front at all when you are using the train. I dont see market for your trains with personalized fronts livery is enough for company to differentiate itself from its competitors ( which train companies dont always even have ).

[ruready1000]

It's not related to KTX-II, but don't want to make another thread.

Cheonan-Asan station is the only station where you can see KTX passing station with almost full speed.

[hoosier]

That is awesome.

[FM 2258]

Originally Posted by bluemeansgo

Who cares if it looks like the TGV. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes here.

I don't like it. Metal wheels on two metal rails....




Kidding aside....this looks sweet. I like the look.

[zergcerebrates]

Hey I came across this video of the Korean TTX train is it in service yet? I love the design of this more than the KTX.

Err... I dont know how to embed the video anyways heres the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KGw4sSM6zA

[ruready1000]

Originally Posted by zergcerebrates

Hey I came across this video of the Korean TTX train is it in service yet? I love the design of this more than the KTX.

Err... I dont know how to embed the video anyways heres the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KGw4sSM6zA

TTX is now undergoing test run, now 80,000km tested and going on untill it reachs 100,000km test run. It's not decided yet whether Korail will purchase this or not. Originally it's developed for speeding up conventional railyways which is electrified but now many conventional railways is straighted or schduled to be straighted at the same time when it's electrified and KTX-II will be put on some of the straighted conventional line, so the position and future of TTX is obsure now. If it may be adopted, it will substituate Sae-Ma-Ul class.

TTX images

http://blog.naver.com/knr_7304/60059990390
http://blog.naver.com/knr_7304/60060208671
http://blog.naver.com/knr_7304/60065381112

[ruready1000]

HEMU-400 Design

A Webzine by KRRI(Korea Railroad Reserarch Institute) reported the process of HEMU-400 design in details.

Here're some pictures.



Above trains were final candidates and 3rd train was selected.
2nd train is duplex type.





Interior




Duplex design (not adopted, but as a sample for the future use)




Final Design


soure

[riles28]

Originally Posted by ruready1000

HEMU-400 Design

A Webzine by KRRI(Korea Railroad Reserarch Institute) reported the process of HEMU-400 design in details.

Here're some pictures.



Above trains were final candidates and 3rd train was selected.
2nd train is duplex type.





Interior




Duplex design (not adopted, but as a sample for the future use)




Final Design


soure

Good and Magnificent it's time to made it that so the KTXII will have new once the HEMU 400X so the Korail can't give more comfortable travel for riding public. Very Nice we will look forward for that.

[Huhu]

That new design is pretty slick. KTX is awesome, screw the haters!

[ddes]

Really love the new HEMU-400 designs although I must admit that the first design looks quite similar to the Fastech 360Z or S (can't remember).

[riles28]

Originally Posted by ddes

Really love the new HEMU-400 designs although I must admit that the first design looks quite similar to the Fastech 360Z or S (can't remember).

Very ckosely in Fastech 360S but for Japan they get the nose of fastech 360Z for they latest model the Series E5 hayate.

[sotavento]

Originally Posted by Spam King

why wouldnt they redesign it to make it an EMU? Push-Pull seems to outdated, not to mention EMU would allow for greater capacity because you dont have locomotives at either end.

EMU = what ???


Any out-of-depot-not-able-to-uncoupple electric multiple unit is an EMU.

[Micrav]

Researches were more interesting than the final design, The double-deck looked really awesome. The last version, single deck looks quite "normal" compared to it. But I know what it takes to reach a final design. Interior looks very interesting.

And to answer one last time to agaristagari:
If you would be live in Europe, you would be interested by the TGV saga and its look. External design contributed greatly to its success and you would know also that each operator looks for identity, so before being mad, calm down and read previous threads on this forum. Look is one of the functions of design and only the signature, but it is an important one. Of course, engineering is important too. But nowadays, when all technical parameters, requirement, reach the top, confort, practical and are around similar budgets, how can you choose? Design also works on identity and culture and helps to sell.

Would you like to ride everyday in an old shaking train or modern practical train that looks like the latest Audi or Honda? Then you understand why people come back to ride trains and trams in Europe and leave more often car at home... It is not only ecology or economics, it is also attractivity. And design definitely helps!

Back to Korea now!

[agaristagari]

Originally Posted by Micrav

Researches were more interesting than the final design, The double-deck looked really awesome. The last version, single deck looks quite "normal" compared to it. But I know what it takes to reach a final design. Interior looks very interesting.

And to answer one last time to agaristagari:
If you would be live in Europe, you would be interested by the TGV saga and its look. External design contributed greatly to its success and you would know also that each operator looks for identity, so before being mad, calm down and read previous threads on this forum. Look is one of the functions of design and only the signature, but it is an important one. Of course, engineering is important too. But nowadays, when all technical parameters, requirement, reach the top, confort, practical and are around similar budgets, how can you choose? Design also works on identity and culture and helps to sell.

Would you like to ride everyday in an old shaking train or modern practical train that looks like the latest Audi or Honda? Then you understand why people come back to ride trains and trams in Europe and leave more often car at home... It is not only ecology or economics, it is also attractivity. And design definitely helps!

Back to Korea now!

How do you conclude where I live?
If it can be so easily done please give me a single example from high speed mass transportation because I haven't ever seen one.
windtunnel and supercomputer aren't cheap.
I would like to travel in fast and reliable train , I don't care if it looked like a dildo
And I definitely wouldn't want to travel in train which looks like Audi or Honda as there is only seats for 5
you are first one I have met who supposedly uses trains because they look cool

I think first-grade engineering can result in very beautiful products