Strait of Gibraltar - Craziest design ever? - Page 2

***christos-greece*** · November 28th, 2008, 07:41 PM

Where is the place in the pic? train rail and road in one small tunnel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RipleyLV

Wasn't there a plan of building a 15km long bridge? I remember watching about this on Discovery channel.

I have heard that too

Timon91 · November 28th, 2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christos-greece

Where is the place in the pic? train rail and road in one small tunnel?

You mean the one I posted? That's on the road to Whittier, Alaska. I just took it from Google Images, I haven't driven there myself, unfortunately.

panda80 · November 28th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle

150.000 - 300.000 vehicles a day seems nuts to me. The problem is many major infrastructural projects are overestimated at usage to justify the costs.

Google on "Flyvbjerg megaprojects" for instance.

i think he referred to 150.000 - 300.000 persons/day vehicle/day.with an average of only 2pers/car it makes quite a difference.75000vehicles/day are feasible in my opinion after let's say 15-20 years, especially if they build entertainment areas on the bridge.

***ChrisZwolle*** · November 28th, 2008, 11:27 PM

I don't know, most border crossings in Europe don't have more than 30.000 vehicles a day.

Morsue · November 29th, 2008, 12:38 AM

But this bridge would not only be a connection between two continents, it would allow for the tourist areas on the Costa del Sol to be expanded to northern Morocco. And as someone said earlier in the thread, the summer brings a lot of Moroccans crossing the strait.

Glodenox · December 1st, 2008, 12:09 PM

The idea for underwater tidal turbines isn't that crazy there over there. The tide is very strong in the strait of Gibraltar is very strong.

But about the connection: I'm not sure. There are indeed quite a few Moroccans that cross the strait each year, but are they "worth" building the bridge for? Will they keep using that bridge in the future? Will other people be using it a lot as well? Will it economically aid the environment there? I personally think they're looking too big, but heh. This'll take ages before it will be built, so I don't fear it too much.

Greetings,
Glodenox

Muttie · December 2nd, 2008, 07:43 PM

Well, truck traffic is always available, trucks now use the ferries to cross the Strait - i can imagine using a tunnel or a bridge would be must faster and therefore more profitable for companies.

Timon91 · December 2nd, 2008, 07:53 PM

They would probably have to pay high tolls. How much is the ferry right now?

Glodenox · December 2nd, 2008, 08:01 PM

Here are some prices I found on the internet:

Quote:

LINE CEUTA - ALGECIRAS (special offer)
40€ one way for one car and one passenger*
(*resident Ceuta)

Adult: 33€
Adult Business class: 39€*
* free drinks on board.
Car: 85 Eur

ALGECIRAS - CEUTA
- 1 mobile home + 2 passengers : 220€ return ticket
- 1 car + caravan+ 2 passengers: 275€ return ticket

TARIFA - TANGER
- 1 mobile home + 2 passengers : 250€ return ticket
- 1 car + caravan+ 2 passengers: 300,60€ return ticket

Line Tarifa-Tangier 35 min.
Adult: 37 Eur
Car: 93 Eur
Return ticket: -10% *
Departure every 2 hours

I'm not sure whether these reflect the real prices very well, but at least it gives *some* information

Greetings,
Glodenox

Muttie · December 2nd, 2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timon91

They would probably have to pay high tolls. How much is the ferry right now?

Depends on which location you choose ofcourse, but when taking EuroFerries:

34,50 euro's for 1 adult person +104 euro's for a simple car. (one way ticket).

The prices above (posted by Glodenox) are for fast-ferries, they dont carry trucks.

Timon91 · December 2nd, 2008, 08:06 PM

But what about trucks? Sorry I wasn't clear enough.....

Muttie · December 2nd, 2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timon91

But what about trucks? Sorry I wasn't clear enough.....

Not sure, trucks pay per KG cargo or something...

pijanec · December 2nd, 2008, 08:28 PM

I guess any infrastructure there would be great for illegal immigrants.

Glodenox · December 2nd, 2008, 08:36 PM

It's a lot easier to defend both sides of such a tunnel than the whole strait, so I doubt illegal immigrants are going to cause problems for the project. There's a ton of other more serious problems if they'd be able to go ahead with this

Greetings,
Glodenox

Morsue · December 3rd, 2008, 04:27 AM

I don't know about trucks, but buses pay on a length basis. 360 euro for 12 metres and then its 43,20 for every extra metre. Crossing the strait by boat has become unbearably expensive. My family have been taking our car to Morocco every summer since 1986, but now it's nowhere close to being economically defendable (it was until a few years ago).

Muttie · December 3rd, 2008, 09:30 AM

Going by airplane is cheaper now. As for the "illegal immigrant question", a tunnel or a bridge is way more easier to check. The immigrants are using small boats anyway, i dont see how a small boat will move on asphalt.

Timon91 · December 3rd, 2008, 03:30 PM

Those "illegal immigrants" will stay using those small boats anyway. It's very difficult to check the entire strait for illegal immigrants, especially during the night.

Robosteve · December 3rd, 2008, 08:41 PM

Would this be the first high standard road link between Europe and Africa, or is it easy to drive between the two continents further east, across the Suez Canal?

Glodenox · December 3rd, 2008, 09:07 PM

Well, unless you can go through Israel, there aren't that many high standard road connections, no.

Greetings,
Glodenox

Timon91 · December 3rd, 2008, 09:10 PM

I guess that a tunnel would be slightly easier

November 28th, 2008, 11:27 PM	#24
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,729 Likes (Received): 428	I don't know, most border crossings in Europe don't have more than 30.000 vehicles a day. __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

December 2nd, 2008, 07:43 PM	#27
Muttie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rotterdam - Nador Posts: 3,191 Likes (Received): 41	Well, truck traffic is always available, trucks now use the ferries to cross the Strait - i can imagine using a tunnel or a bridge would be must faster and therefore more profitable for companies. Last edited by Muttie; December 2nd, 2008 at 07:48 PM.

December 2nd, 2008, 07:53 PM	#28
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	They would probably have to pay high tolls. How much is the ferry right now? __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

December 2nd, 2008, 08:06 PM	#31
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	But what about trucks? Sorry I wasn't clear enough..... __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

December 3rd, 2008, 03:30 PM	#37
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	Those "illegal immigrants" will stay using those small boats anyway. It's very difficult to check the entire strait for illegal immigrants, especially during the night. __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

November 29th, 2008, 12:38 AM	#25
Morsue Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,206 Likes (Received): 2	But this bridge would not only be a connection between two continents, it would allow for the tourist areas on the Costa del Sol to be expanded to northern Morocco. And as someone said earlier in the thread, the summer brings a lot of Moroccans crossing the strait.

December 1st, 2008, 12:09 PM	#26
Glodenox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Zemst, BE Posts: 799	The idea for underwater tidal turbines isn't that crazy there over there. The tide is very strong in the strait of Gibraltar is very strong. But about the connection: I'm not sure. There are indeed quite a few Moroccans that cross the strait each year, but are they "worth" building the bridge for? Will they keep using that bridge in the future? Will other people be using it a lot as well? Will it economically aid the environment there? I personally think they're looking too big, but heh. This'll take ages before it will be built, so I don't fear it too much. Greetings, Glodenox

December 2nd, 2008, 08:28 PM	#33
pijanec Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ptuj Posts: 2,022 Likes (Received): 0	I guess any infrastructure there would be great for illegal immigrants.

December 2nd, 2008, 08:36 PM	#34
Glodenox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Zemst, BE Posts: 799	It's a lot easier to defend both sides of such a tunnel than the whole strait, so I doubt illegal immigrants are going to cause problems for the project. There's a ton of other more serious problems if they'd be able to go ahead with this Greetings, Glodenox

December 3rd, 2008, 04:27 AM	#35
Morsue Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,206 Likes (Received): 2	I don't know about trucks, but buses pay on a length basis. 360 euro for 12 metres and then its 43,20 for every extra metre. Crossing the strait by boat has become unbearably expensive. My family have been taking our car to Morocco every summer since 1986, but now it's nowhere close to being economically defendable (it was until a few years ago).

December 3rd, 2008, 09:30 AM	#36
Muttie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rotterdam - Nador Posts: 3,191 Likes (Received): 41	Going by airplane is cheaper now. As for the "illegal immigrant question", a tunnel or a bridge is way more easier to check. The immigrants are using small boats anyway, i dont see how a small boat will move on asphalt.

December 3rd, 2008, 08:41 PM	#38
Robosteve Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 377 Likes (Received): 0	Would this be the first high standard road link between Europe and Africa, or is it easy to drive between the two continents further east, across the Suez Canal?

December 3rd, 2008, 09:07 PM	#39
Glodenox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Zemst, BE Posts: 799	Well, unless you can go through Israel, there aren't that many high standard road connections, no. Greetings, Glodenox

December 3rd, 2008, 09:10 PM	#40
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	I guess that a tunnel would be slightly easier __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

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