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Old October 14th, 2009, 10:47 PM   #81
spicytimothy
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Too bad there aren't any interior shots of this place.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 01:47 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar View Post
Hong Kong Apartment Sells for $56.5 Million
I'm excited to move in.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 06:05 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicytimothy View Post
Too bad there aren't any interior shots of this place.
I agree - luxurious (and I mean top end luxurious - like ones that sell for US$10 million+) apartments and houses in the US and UK (and elsewhere) ***** themselves like crazy with interior and exterior pictures. On the other hand, Hong Kong's apartments and houses (think The Legend, The Arch) etc are very reserved with what they promote with regards to interiors. Weird.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 07:31 PM   #84
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http://www.39conduitroad.com.hk/index_e.html
^ official website

floorplans, pics and info:

http://hk.centanet.com/icms/template...es=540&pid=178
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Old October 15th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar View Post
I agree - luxurious (and I mean top end luxurious - like ones that sell for US$10 million+) apartments and houses in the US and UK (and elsewhere) ***** themselves like crazy with interior and exterior pictures. On the other hand, Hong Kong's apartments and houses (think The Legend, The Arch) etc are very reserved with what they promote with regards to interiors. Weird.
i don't agree,
i think there are plenty
e.g.
the legend: http://hk.centanet.com/icms/template...es=540&pid=117

the cullinan: http://hk.centanet.com/icms/template...es=540&pid=106
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Old October 15th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #86
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Ah, good man

Edit: Most of these are renders, and poor ones at that.

I'm talking about something like this: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/ny...ty/03pier.html
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Old October 16th, 2009, 08:32 AM   #87
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Ah, good - the media has picked up on the floor numbering farce.

Taken from today's SCMP editorial

Quote:
Developer goes too far with numbers game

In a city where superstition is so keenly observed, it is not surprising that the property industry has tailored developments to meet demand. The assumption is that no one wants to live on a floor that includes the unlucky Chinese number four or its Western counterpart 13, but they are willing to pay top dollar for those with the auspicious number eight. Henderson Land has taken this thinking on board with its development at 39 Conduit Road in Mid-Levels, added a pinch of reasoning of its own and thrown in a dose of unfathomable logic. The result is a 46-storey block of flats with the one at the top marked in sales brochures as the 88th floor.

An ages-old mantra of the property industry is "location, location, location". Conduit Road is a fashionable address and therefore attracts equivalent prices. Floors with scenic views and "lucky" numbers can garner a premium. Henderson's development takes the saying to a new level by avoiding designating floors four, 13, 14, 21, 34, 40 to 59, 62, 64, 65, 67 and 69 to 87. The absurdity was appraent on Wednesday when a five-bedroom duplex in the block sold for a world record HK$71,280 per square foot. Marked in the sales brochure as being on the 68th floor, it is on the 42nd and 43rd.

The numbering system may be considered lucky, but there is nothing auspicious about the timing of the units being put on sale. Amid an outcry that buyers were being hoodwinked by promotional material, the Real Estate Developers Association last week issued guidelines on what the publicationsh should show and should not show. The aim was to foster truthfulness in advertising, a matter that has been seriously lacking in artists' impressions and indications of flat sizes. Henderson's marketing strategy slaps regulators in the face.

Floors in buildings are numbered for identification. There is no law that says this has to be the case; apartments could instead have names rather than numbers. But multi-storey developments in Hong Kong, for the sake of convenience and in the name of convention, have stuck firmly to numbers. A degree of superstition has been factored in and tolerated. There can, however, be no tolerating the manner in which Henderson has abused this latitude.
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Old October 16th, 2009, 11:16 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar View Post
Ah, good - the media has picked up on the floor numbering farce.

Taken from today's SCMP editorial
Good article. Hopefully developers will get a grip.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 02:30 AM   #89
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Well I don't think it's a problem to number it with nice numbers, as long as they put it in parenthesis the actual floor number.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 05:33 AM   #90
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Just because your floor is 'numbered' 88 doesn't mean you're NOT living on the 44th floor.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 08:07 AM   #91
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I think it's misleading advertising. You give people a sense they're getting an 88/F view but they're actually getting half of that.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 08:14 AM   #92
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It's probably 'about' 88 floors from the ground anyway.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 09:43 AM   #93
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Quote:
Hong Kong flat 'most expensive'
39 Conduit Road


The most expensive flat is located in this building in Hong Kong

A wealthy Chinese buyer has snapped up a luxury Hong Kong apartment for $57m (£35m), thought to be a record price.


The five-bedroom home is believed to be Asia's most expensive property - with each sq foot costing $9,200.

The unidentified new owner bought the property in 39 Conduit Road, one of Hong Kong's most exclusive addresses.

The deal came as the territory's chief executive, Donald Tsang, said he was concerned about a possible property bubble emerging.

The apartment, about 6,000 sq feet (557 sq metres), was sold by Henderson Land Development.

It is on the 68th floor of the building and has views over the harbour. The owner has access to facilities including an aroma spa centre, a fitness room and an outdoor yoga gym.

Thomas Lam, from the company, said the building, offered "a chance to allow the elites in town to enjoy such prestigious property".

Another unit in the same building was sold for $51 million.


WORLD'S MOST EXPENSIVE HOMES

Fleur de Lys, Beverley Hills, US:
$125 million
Dunnellen Hall, Connecticut, US:
$125 million
Updown Court, Surrey, UK:
$110 million
Tranquility, Nevada, US:
$100 million
Eurasia, Moscow, Russia:
$100 million
Source: Forbes.com

In his annual policy address, Mr Tsang said the government was considering making more land available for development.

"The relatively small number of residential units completed and the record prices attained in certain transactions this year have caused concern about the supply of flats, difficulty in purchasing a home, and the possibility of a property bubble," he said.

Property prices in Hong Kong have benefited from mainland China's booming market, however it has one of the world's most expensive property markets - with many locals finding it difficult to buy.

Xavier Wong, head of China research at international property agency Knight Frank, told Bloomberg news: "Most luxury apartments are just like antiques and paintings.

"There's an asset bubble forming; at such a phase in the property market, anything can happen."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8308491.stm
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Old October 17th, 2009, 05:32 PM   #94
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The buyers don't care what is the true floor number.
As long as it is given a lucky number, it can be sold for another million.

But I think it's getting ridiculous to skip a whole series of numbers and suddenly jumped 20 integers for the sack of sounds better.
We used to only opt out 13 and the 4s, and it's now the 5s as well.
(4=death, 5=no, so why shouldn't there be 54? No death, live long.)

Some days it will be...
1st floor 8
2nd floor 18
3rd floor 28
etc etc.
and the 70th floor may be 88888888......

this may come in the next buying guideline to not allow skipping numbers.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #95
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We need some disgruntled rich buyers to get a lawsuit going, then perhaps more scrutiny and care will take place.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 12:28 PM   #96
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Unusual floor-numbering strategy a misleading gimmick, critics claim
19 October 2009
South China Morning Post

Property industry observers have condemned a ploy by Henderson Land Development to skip 48 floor numbers in its 39 Conduit Road apartment block so that it can market the top two floors of the luxury project as 68 and 88 - both lucky numbers in Chinese numerology.

In reality the development, which will be ready for occupation in March next year but was launched off-plan last week, has only 46 storeys.

"It is no secret that developers' marketing strategies have historically been borderline or, in some cases, crossed the line in terms of factual representation," said Leland Sun, the chairman of mortgage brokers Pan Asian Mortgage.

He said this is an absurd marketing gimmick that will discredit Hong Kong in the eyes of the world.

"False and misleading advertising," said an executive of a rival property development firm.

"Such a numbering system is the most ridiculous we have ever heard of in the industry and will raise doubts about our ethical standards in Hong Kong," the developer added.

But Henderson Land Development sales general manager Thomas Lam dismissed the criticism yesterday.

"We wanted to tailor the numbers of the floors to suit our target customers. The numbers we have used are regarded by them as lucky," said Lam.

In Chinese numerology certain numbers are regarded as lucky because their pronunciation is similar to that of auspicious words.

The number six, for instance, sounds like the word for happiness in Putonghua and blessings in Cantonese, while the number eight sounds like the word for prosper or wealth in Putonghua and fortune in Cantonese.

There is also a visual resemblance between the two digits 88 and the word for "double wealth".

Owing in part, perhaps, to the auspicious address of the 6,158 square foot duplex on the second-highest level of the development - called by Henderson Land the 68th floor, but in reality the 43rd and 44th floors - a buyer last week paid a world record price for a luxury residence.

Speaking at a news conference to mark the launch of the project, Lam told reporters the deal was done at a price of HK$88,000 per square foot of saleable area.

That translated into a price tag of HK$439 million and beat the previous record of £6,000 per square foot for a unit at One Hyde Park in London, Lam said.

Now Henderson Land was in talks with a potential buyer of a duplex unit with the most auspicious address in the Conduit Road tower - on the 88th floor (actually the 45th and 46th floors) - at a price tag of HK$100,000 per square foot, he said.

The numbering is the result of skipping the numbers 4, 13, 14, 24, 34, 40 to 59, 62, 64, 65, 67 and 69 to 87, and Henderson Land has defended its action by saying that this is mentioned in its sales brochure, which was submitted to the Lands Department for pre-approval before the marketing campaign got under way.

But while the marketing ploy was condemned as misleading by the Consumer Council, it appears that it is legal.

Asked to comment on the floor numbering, the Transport and Housing Bureau said in a written response: "Sales brochures do not require government's pre-approval before publication.

"It is the onus of the developers to comply with all the requirements on sales brochures under the Lands Department's Consent Scheme, and ensure that the information in the sales brochures is comprehensive and accurate."

Only if it identified irregularities in the sales brochures would the Lands Department follow up and demand rectification, it said, without commenting on the current case.

But Sun said the misleading numbering would add to investor concerns about the regulation of markets in Hong Kong after the mis-selling of Lehman Brothers minibonds, which caused thousands of retail investors to lose most of their money.

"With the minibond saga still weighing on people's minds, and the fact that only investors in Hong Kong and Singapore fell into that trap, people outside Hong Kong will say it is another case where buyers or investors are being duped," said Sun.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 02:48 PM   #97
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Good SCMP is pointing out that fact to the public... but how many of those buyers are reading SCMP.

The next building is going to have a 2,888 SF unit being sold at $88,888 SF on the "88"th floor. All BS.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:52 AM   #98
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just name the floor as PH as Penthouse. classy, marketable and not misleading
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Old October 27th, 2009, 10:17 AM   #99
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Lawmaker takes developers to task
23 October 2009
The Standard

The Real Estate Developers Association will look into a complaint concerning floor numbering of Henderson Land Development's (0012) home project 39 Conduit Road, lawmaker Lee Wing-tat said.

``The developers association has agreed to study the complaint and will pay attention to the use of `creative numbers' for floor numbering,'' Lee said after a meeting with members of the association yesterday.

The Democratic Party member has received a complaint saying the skipping of floor numbers by Henderson Land was misleading to consumers.

Lee also criticized Sun Hung Kai Properties (0016) for marketing the Kowloon Peak residential project Aria to a customer at the firm's headquarters before releasing a sales brochure and a price list. Under Lands Department rules, developers are required to release a price list 24 hours before selling homes.

And REDA said members have reached a consensus to back the government's land application list system. They suggested the government should lower the minimum price from at least 80 percent of the government estimate to 60 percent to trigger a site for auction, a market source said.

``The land sale by application system is a correct one and should be sustained. It may need some improvement, though,'' said Wilson Chan Yuk-sing, associate director of property sales and marketing at K Wah International (0173). ``It's OK for the government to sell land occasionally.''

Lee accused K Wah of selling units at industrial project Solo on Bedford Road as homes, which is breaching rules of land use change.

Chan said Solo is an industrial building, however K Wah cannot control what buyers plan to do with their units.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 04:14 PM   #100
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LCQ6: Floor numbering of buildings
Wednesday, November 4, 2009
Government Press Release

Following is a question by the Hon James To Kun-sun and a reply by the Secretary for Development, Mrs Carrie Lam, in the Legislative Council today (November 4):

Question:

It has been reported that the issue of floor numbering of buildings has earlier aroused public concern because of the floor numbering arrangement of a first-sale property, whereby not only the numbers of those floors generally considered to be inauspicious (for example the fourth, 13th, 14th, 24th and 34th floors) are omitted, the floor numbers also jump from 39th to 60th immediately, and from 68th to 88th. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) whether, in vetting and approving the building plans for buildings, the Buildings Department will consider if the floor numbers provided by the developers are arranged in a logical sequence; and in the event that the arrangement concerned deviates significantly from the common practice (e.g. the second floor is numbered as the 288th floor), whether it will advise the developer to revise the arrangement;

(b) whether, in vetting and approving the pre-sale of uncompleted flats, the Lands Department will consider if the floor numbering of the buildings concerned will easily give rise to misunderstanding among the public (e.g. misleading them into thinking that a building is 88-storey high when it is in fact only 46-storey high); and

(c) whether the floor numbering of buildings has any implication for the provision of emergency rescue services by the Government?

Reply:

President,

The Building Authority (BA) considers and approves building plans in accordance with the provisions of the Buildings Ordinance (Cap. 123). Section 16 of the Ordinance stipulates the specific considerations where the BA may refuse to approve building plans. Such considerations do not include the arrangement of floor numbers of a building. Therefore, the BA cannot refuse to approve a building plan because of the floor numbering arrangement of the building as shown on the plan, or the BA may be accused of acting ultra vires and be subject to legal challenges. Nevertheless, if the BA considers the floor numbering as shown on a building plan may cause confusion, he may suggest the applicant to make amendments, albeit such suggestion is advisory in nature without statutory effect.

Regarding the development project at Conduit Road which the public is concerned about recently, the floor numbering arrangement of the building actually has two scenarios. Firstly, the building has adopted a very common practice in Hong Kong to omit floor numbers of the 4th, 13th, 14th, 24th, 34th and 44th floors which are generally considered inauspicious (commonly known as "skipping floors"). In addition, the building plans also indicate that the 40th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd, 45th, 46th floors of the building are respectively "also known as 60th floor" and so on as 61st, 63rd, 66th, 68th and 88th floors. Under the provisions of the current legislation, the BA has no statutory power to refuse to approve the building plans because of the arrangement of floor numbers of the building as shown on the plans. Since the actual and the "also known as" floor numbers were arranged from lower to upper floors in ascending order, the BA considered that there was no need to advise the applicant to make amendments.

I now reply to the three parts of the question:

(a) As I replied earlier, the BA has no statutory power under the Buildings Ordinance to refuse to approve a building plan because of the arrangement of floor numbers of a building as shown on the plans. Nevertheless, if the BA considers that the floor numbers of a building as shown on the building plans are not arranged in a logical sequence and generally in order, he may suggest the applicant to make amendments, albeit such suggestion is advisory in nature without statutory effect. In fact, the public is concerned about the Conduit Road case not because of a significant deviation from the common practice in floor numbering. It is because the case adopts a very rare arrangement of adding an "also known as" designation of floor numbers on top of the actual floor numbers.

In view of the recent public concern over the floor numbering arrangement of buildings, the Buildings Department (BD) has, after consideration, decided to review and amend the existing Practice Note for Authorised Persons, Registered Structural Engineers and Registered Geotechnical Engineers together with the relevant stakeholders. The aim is to formulate a reasonable approach and a code of good practice for floor numbering for the industry to adopt on a self-discipline basis. Promulgation of practice notes is a method used by the BD to require the industry to adopt good practices in building design. Such method has been effective. The BD will soon make proposals and consult the Building Subcommittee of the Land and Development Advisory Committee in respect of floor numbering arrangement for buildings, with a view to revising the practice note as soon as possible. According to past experience, upon promulgation of the practice note by the BA, the industry will adopt. We believe that the situation of arousing public concern again should be avoided.

(b) The Consent Scheme is an administrative measure. One of its primary objectives is consumer protection, i.e. to protect buyers of uncompleted flats against losses arising from developers' failure to complete their developments.

According to the requirements of most of the land grant documents, one of the prerequisites for approving the pre-sale of uncompleted flats by the Government is that the Deed of Mutual Covenant (DMC) concerned must be approved by the Director of Lands. In vetting and approving the DMC, the Lands Department will accept the floor numbers shown on the building plans approved by the BD as the floor numbers set out in the DMC.

To enhance the transparency of the sales of uncompleted residential properties, the Consent Scheme and the guidelines issued by the Real Estate Developers Association of Hong Kong (REDA) require developers to provide prescribed property information, including the salient points of the DMC, in the sales brochures.

In general, developers have provided in their sales brochures cross-section diagrams of floors which show the total number of storeys of respective building and the position of respective floors, as well as floor numbering information in the "Information for Reference" section in the latter part of the sales brochures.

To further enhance the transparency of floor numbering information in the sales brochures, the Transport and Housing Bureau will discuss with the REDA on the requirement for developers to set out the floor numbering information clearly in the section on "Basic Information of the Development" at the front part of the sales brochure.

(c) According to the information provided by the Security Bureau, for the provision of emergency services by the Government, correct address of the incident, including the floor number, is a piece of crucial information which can facilitate prompt arrival of frontline staff at the scene to attend to the emergency situation. Generally speaking, minor changes to floor numbering, such as the omission of certain floor numbers, will not have a significant impact on the Police's handling of emergencies or the Fire Service Department's fire fighting and ambulance operation. However, if the floor numbering is too unconventional and overly complicated, it may affect the efficiency of the Government's provision of emergency services. As mentioned in the first part of the reply, in mapping out the approach for floor numbering arrangement and the code of good practice, the BD will consult the Security Bureau and take into account the latter's advice.
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