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Old May 26th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #561
kony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niçois View Post
The architecte has no talent ?
And actually for having been close to it recently, i can say that in real it looks even uglier than on those past pictures...a MASSACRE for Kowloon which deserve much better !

Hong Kong has really lost it to Dubai when it comes to Towers design but also "urban planning and landscaping"...and i lived in Dubai so i have seen it from upclose
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:26 PM   #562
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I hardly think Dubai's urban planning considers vibrant street life as anything important.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #563
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I hardly think Dubai's urban planning considers vibrant street life as anything important.

No one was talking about "vibrant street life". That is not the point here. I was talking about nice street landscaping and city planning...and Dubai may surprise you in many ways (apparently you don't know it very well)

If i want vibrant city street , yes i know i can find it in Wan Chai or in Sham shui po "bazar" streets in Hong Kong...but again that is not what was talked about it.

Just the last developpment of Dubai : Dubai Water canal is out of this world in term of detail and "coolness"...and it's not even finished yet...go and check it out !!

Now Dubai has also its "vibrant city life" part if it's what you're into and it makes a better use of its beachfront or harbour front than what i see on Victoria Harbour in HK where i hardly see any restaurant (talking especially about the promenade near The ferris wheel in central (HK)
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Old May 27th, 2017, 07:50 AM   #564
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So a single project signs the obituary for all urban planning of Hong Kong. Yet a single project in Dubai basically makes it the next Greenwich Village.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 07:59 AM   #565
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Make good use of their waterfront? That's such a joke. So many parts of its Persian Gulf coastline are closed to the public, hogged by hotels and luxury resorts, and the whole city is laid out in an axis inland (Sheik Zayad Road), not taking advantage of its waterfront.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 08:32 AM   #566
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To SAIHO : Well I talked about the #latest# development in Dubai aka Dubai canal...I didn't mean to say it was the unique proof of what I wanted to point out.. Dubai Marina or the beach Dubai (JBR) are 2 other great examples

Last edited by kony; May 27th, 2017 at 08:40 AM.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 08:37 AM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Make good use of their waterfront? That's such a joke. So many parts of its Persian Gulf coastline are closed to the public, hogged by hotels and luxury resorts, and the whole city is laid out in an axis inland (Sheik Zayad Road), not taking advantage of its waterfront.
And why all the Jumeirah beach side should be ALL devoted to PUBLIC space ? That's dozens of kilometers of beach front !!;

If you know Dubai (which it appears you don't) you would realized that it's already quite some kilometers of beach that had been transformed into public space in the past years

Yes that is kilometers of beautifully public landscaped waterfront .. Running tracks, restaurants, resting areas, picknick etc

What else do you want ??

Again take a flight to Dubai and check by yourself. . Dubai is changing at light speed pace.. That's the problem with people who judge Dubai by what it looked like in 2010 lol
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Old May 28th, 2017, 05:20 AM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
And why all the Jumeirah beach side should be ALL devoted to PUBLIC space ? That's dozens of kilometers of beach front !!;

If you know Dubai (which it appears you don't) you would realized that it's already quite some kilometers of beach that had been transformed into public space in the past years

Yes that is kilometers of beautifully public landscaped waterfront .. Running tracks, restaurants, resting areas, picknick etc

What else do you want ??

Again take a flight to Dubai and check by yourself. . Dubai is changing at light speed pace.. That's the problem with people who judge Dubai by what it looked like in 2010 lol
But the city is not built around that waterfront. The whole city is laid out inland. Then the beachfront breaks off regularly due to private developments. There is no such thing as a landscaped continuous waterfront with the facilities you described along most of that coastline.

How well do you know Dubai?
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Old May 28th, 2017, 07:14 AM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
But the city is not built around that waterfront. The whole city is laid out inland. Then the beachfront breaks off regularly due to private developments. There is no such thing as a landscaped continuous waterfront with the facilities you described along most of that coastline.

How well do you know Dubai?
Well i lived in dubai 4 years and i just moved last year in HK from Dubai

so i know it pretty well

There are private developments along the coast but , like i said, there are also kilometers of public space...so i really don't get where is the problem for you ?

You seem to imply that it's a crime that there is no "continuous" landscape public beachfront...well why it should be ? it's a mix of public and private access to the beach...and it works pretty well

i never felt, while living in Dubai, that i was in shortage of public beach to go to

and they are all center stage, while to get to a beach in HK is a bit less easy access

But again Even if Dubai is a much newer city than Hong Kong, i insist that Hong Kong has a lot to learn from Dubai when it comes to urban planning

one simple example : in Dubai i had a bike, and i could enjoy my bike in many neighborhoods (Dubai Marina where i lived, Palm Jumeirah, and so many other bike-friendly places).

In Hong Kong i live in Aberdeen : there is a nice wide nd safe promenade along the sea. Forbidden to bikes. I asked my colleagues why bikes are forbidden in most promenades in Hong Kong, they could not tell me why and felt as sorry as i am.

for such an old city, it's surprising not to favour such a green mode of transport.

I was told that i can go far away to Tai po where they installed a long cycling truck.

But why can't i use a bike down my neighborhood without taking risk to be killed by a taxi driver or those crazy mini buses ??

In the end i prefered not buying a bike.

You will never convince me that Hong kong is thinking its "public spaces" better than Dubai does. For me i experienced the contrary.

But after all Dubai started quite recently (less than 15 years) to think public spaces... so they learnt from other cities and were able to avoid repeating past mistakes.

Have u ever been to Dubai ? when was it and how long did you stay ? You seem to be living with a quite old image of that city...
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Old May 28th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #570
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Dubai is not built to take advantage of its waterfront. Its modernization wasn't conceived to be a seaport to begin with, and it reflects such from the road grid and land use. So what's the percentage of waterfront that is public and accessible? Miniscule. Much of that is buried behind side streets and not easily discoverable from the larger arterial roads. You'd wonder why they'd want to bury the sea view away from everyone's eyes? Oh wait ... the city is laid out in an axis inland!

Good luck enjoying your bike in Dubai's 45C+ heat. You will get killed racing down the main boulevard, the Sheik. The reality is, Dubai is car town, and you are not safer with a bike there either. People drive, and the extent of public transport ("green") use pales compared to East Asian cities.

I never said Hong Kong does best with its public space. Go back through the content and quote me if I made such a statement, but to use Dubai as an example of such by using piecemeal projects is absolutely silly.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
To SAIHO : Well I talked about the #latest# development in Dubai aka Dubai canal...I didn't mean to say it was the unique proof of what I wanted to point out.. Dubai Marina or the beach Dubai (JBR) are 2 other great examples
I would not call those projects world class urban planning. Seems more like the typical over-planned neighborhoods you find in Mainland China. Not bad but not great either. How much people use non-auto transit in Dubai? Whats the average water and electric usage per resident there? Not great I imagine. Dubai might be better to look at but if it is not producing results, its just set dressing. There is a reason academics go to Hong Kong to study its transport, urban and public housing systems instead of Dubai which just attracts consultants who want to make money and post the project on their website.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 07:45 PM   #572
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The building would look much better if they add a crown to it.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 08:38 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Good luck enjoying your bike in Dubai's 45C+ heat. You will get killed racing down the main boulevard, the Sheik.
i did it for 4 years, still very ok...also you tend to generalize, temperature in Dubai is +45 C only between june and september...remaining 8 months is pretty ok,and around (or below in dec to feb) 30 C.

and between june and september doing outdoor sports early morning or evening is the norm..you get used to it

another thing, each and every single post that you do confirm my feeling : you probably never stepped in Dubai and are making vague and wrong statements about things you ignore : no one go biking on Sheik Zayed Road , a 16 lanes motorway !!!!

Instead people use their bike in their neighborhood, something impossible in Hong Kong because promenades are forbiden to bicycles here (unless you live in Taipo)

also Dubai has created kms of bicycle lanes in past years...but how would you know if you only see that city behind your computer screen...


Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
but to use Dubai as an example of such by using piecemeal projects is absolutely silly.
well not and example as such, but in many ways more friendly than Hong Kong when in comes to public spaces...and i stand by my statement even if you don't seem to like it.

again why don't you answer : how many times have you been to Dubai..and for how long did u stay (honest answer required) ?
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Old May 29th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
UGLY UGLY UGLY...

it doesn't even have the excuse of mimicking the Empire State Building's shape...
Why the negativity? The ESB is worthy of an inspiration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by niçois View Post
The architecte has no talent ?
Architects need to make a living too you know ( floor space premium ).

It actually has a lot of architectual elements. It could have been a glass box.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
And actually for having been close to it recently, i can say that in real it looks even uglier than on those past pictures...a MASSACRE for Kowloon which deserve much better !

Hong Kong has really lost it to Dubai when it comes to Towers design but also "urban planning and landscaping"...and i lived in Dubai so i have seen it from upclose
One example of a design inspired by a Dubai tower? Dubai's Urban P&L ? How about not building them in the desert!?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
No one was talking about "vibrant street life". That is not the point here. I was talking about nice street landscaping and city planning...and Dubai may surprise you in many ways (apparently you don't know it very well)

If i want vibrant city street , yes i know i can find it in Wan Chai or in Sham shui po "bazar" streets in Hong Kong...but again that is not what was talked about it.

Just the last developpment of Dubai : Dubai Water canal is out of this world in term of detail and "coolness"...and it's not even finished yet...go and check it out !!

Now Dubai has also its "vibrant city life" part if it's what you're into and it makes a better use of its beachfront or harbour front than what i see on Victoria Harbour in HK where i hardly see any restaurant (talking especially about the promenade near The ferris wheel in central (HK)

They literally built that to "cool" the area down .
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Old May 29th, 2017, 03:44 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by kony View Post
i did it for 4 years, still very ok...also you tend to generalize, temperature in Dubai is +45 C only between june and september...remaining 8 months is pretty ok,and around (or below in dec to feb) 30 C.
Are you generalizing that the rest of the year is conducive to the vibrant outdoor life that Dubai lacks, such that people will ditch their cars and walk, or even just walk to their nearest public transport stop?

According to the UAE's meterological statistics (http://www.ncms.ae/en/climate-report...y.html?id=8803), the rest of the year is not really OK in a general sense either, unless you think the average mean max of 37.8C in May, 39.7C in June, all the way to 39.1C in September, are "pretty ok". By the way, the winter months are also the most humid of the year, which means the humidex will play a far bigger role in keeping people in air-conditioned comfort despite the mercury dipping below 30C but well above 20C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
another thing, each and every single post that you do confirm my feeling : you probably never stepped in Dubai and are making vague and wrong statements about things you ignore : no one go biking on Sheik Zayed Road , a 16 lanes motorway !!!!
What I say is no different than what has been discussed about Dubai's urban planning before :
http://global.ctbuh.org/resources/pa...le-context.pdf
https://www.thestar.com/news/insight...ld_a_city.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/bu...t/28dubai.html

With massive roads designed for the car, and not people, no wonder there are so few pedestrians and bikers around, even when you think the climate is "pretty ok".

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
Instead people use their bike in their neighborhood, something impossible in Hong Kong because promenades are forbiden to bicycles here (unless you live in Taipo)
They take public transit, which Dubai also has a problem of encouraging people to do. A sustainable city can't have everyone driving around everywhere. That's bad urban planning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
also Dubai has created kms of bicycle lanes in past years...but how would you know if you only see that city behind your computer screen...
Do you have statistics to show these are being well-used? Has cycling become the city's most dominant form of travel, such that they need to close down that massive boulevard and get cars out of their way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
well not and example as such, but in many ways more friendly than Hong Kong when in comes to public spaces...and i stand by my statement even if you don't seem to like it.

again why don't you answer : how many times have you been to Dubai..and for how long did u stay (honest answer required) ?
Sure, you can stand by your statements even if they are not logical. By the way, the amount of time spent living in a place is not always correlated to how knowledgeable this person is at understanding its place in the grand scheme of things. Plenty of examples abound of people living all their lives in a place and not being open-minded or sufficiently aware of the world that has changed around them.

So what are these "many ways" in your generalization? So building a fancy public space is suddenly good planning regardless of its "fit" and utilization? That's exactly the problem with Dubai.

You should do a search on this forum to see what I have posted about Dubai and its neighbour, Abu Dhabi.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 07:17 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
According to the UAE's meterological statistics (http://www.ncms.ae/en/climate-report...y.html?id=8803), the rest of the year is not really OK in a general sense either, unless you think the average mean max of 37.8C in May, 39.7C in June, all the way to 39.1C in September, are "pretty ok". By the way, the winter months are also the most humid of the year, which means the humidex will play a far bigger role in keeping people in air-conditioned comfort despite the mercury dipping below 30C but well above 20C.

Tha's it. you stand by internet links. i stand by the fact of having lived there to state that temperature are fine for walking and even more biking in Dubai between end sept/october and march...


Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
With massive roads designed for the car, and not people, no wonder there are so few pedestrians and bikers around, even when you think the climate is "pretty ok".


They take public transit, which Dubai also has a problem of encouraging people to do. A sustainable city can't have everyone driving around everywhere. That's bad urban planning.
Well Dubai is a city of cars...like Los Angeles...it's not surprising in a country where oil is so cheap...but why making people guilty of willing to use their car ? i had a car in Dubai...yet i had also a bike i was using regurlarly for my pleisure...i don't see why it should be an opposition between using cars and being able to use bikes if both are possible

Dubai is not Amsterdam and no one ever said that : my only point was to say that in Dubai it's easier and way safer to ride a bike than in Hong Kong , and so for 2 reasons which HK cannot compete with :

1) bikes are more than welcome on most promenades like in Dubai Marina (Vs forbiden on all HK promenade unless far away Tai Po)

2 ) bikes lanes are being implemented in more major axis Vs in Hong kong where you need to risk your life sharing road with cars and buses



That is pure facts. But to know such fact you need to be living there and not just internet-checking "facts".


Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Do you have statistics to show these are being well-used? Has cycling become the city's most dominant form of travel, such that they need to close down that massive boulevard and get cars out of their way?
are you serious ??? who said that bike are going to replace cars ???? again Dubai is not meant to be Amsterdam so your comment is completely irrelevant.

If i want to use a bike, being safe and along promenades,
then i can do it in Dubai. That's a freedom Hong Kong doesn't offer me unfortunately.


Quote:
Sure, you can stand by your statements even if they are not logical. By the way, the amount of time spent living in a place is not always correlated to how knowledgeable this person is at understanding its place in the grand scheme of things. Plenty of examples abound of people living all their lives in a place and not being open-minded or sufficiently aware of the world that has changed around them.

And how arrogant is it to talk in large about cities you probably never been to or maybe just as a layover for a couple of days ...

Let's agree to disagree.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 07:33 PM   #577
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Sorry but this is one hell of an ugly building. HK architect? Would not be a surprise. How the hell do you design and approve something like this in 2017?
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Old May 29th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #578
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I actually like that it isn't overly styled. Had it been shorter I would almost say it was Japanese in its conservative design.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 08:22 PM   #579
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I don't get all the hate. I think this project turned out just fine.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 08:52 PM   #580
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I don't get all the hate. I think this project turned out just fine.
what about getting more ambition for Hong Kong ?

At such proeminent location in Kowloon this tower, along with K11, is an insult to elegant architecture : think about architecture wonders like Bank of China Tower who made the reputation of Hong Kong Skyline...
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