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Old May 30th, 2017, 02:33 AM   #581
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I'm with many other people, quite disappointed with this very plain boring design standing in our 2017 waterfront! I am not a big fan of the government headquarter building either.
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Old May 30th, 2017, 05:22 AM   #582
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Originally Posted by kony View Post
Tha's it. you stand by internet links. i stand by the fact of having lived there to state that temperature are fine for walking and even more biking in Dubai between end sept/october and march...
Your view is not consistent with the vast majority, reflected by empty sidewalks and street life even during your so-called "pretty ok" months. 39C mean max in September and 35.6C mean max in October are not outdoors friendly months.

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Originally Posted by kony View Post
Well Dubai is a city of cars...like Los Angeles...it's not surprising in a country where oil is so cheap...but why making people guilty of willing to use their car ? i had a car in Dubai...yet i had also a bike i was using regurlarly for my pleisure...i don't see why it should be an opposition between using cars and being able to use bikes if both are possible
Oil being cheap should also mean public transport is also cheap. Yet, people don't take transit. Los Angeles is another great example of bad urban planning and the ails of building a city around the car, and not people.

The problem is when people rely on cars not for pleasure, but for their everyday needs. Dubai is built to cater for that.

That's why the likes of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat have issued such scathing reports on Dubai's development model. Perhaps you can counter the points they raise, rather than poo-poo over their report with no substance?

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Originally Posted by kony View Post
Dubai is not Amsterdam and no one ever said that : my only point was to say that in Dubai it's easier and way safer to ride a bike than in Hong Kong , and so for 2 reasons which HK cannot compete with :

1) bikes are more than welcome on most promenades like in Dubai Marina (Vs forbiden on all HK promenade unless far away Tai Po)

2 ) bikes lanes are being implemented in more major axis Vs in Hong kong where you need to risk your life sharing road with cars and buses
So 1 project in Dubai Marina means the whole city is bike-friendly. Really? So when is that huge boulevard Sheik getting bike lanes? That major axis that crosses the city. So these are your "facts" - piecemeal projects inappropriately generalized.

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are you serious ??? who said that bike are going to replace cars ???? again Dubai is not meant to be Amsterdam so your comment is completely irrelevant.
It's all about sustainable development. And it doesn't start and end with bikes. It's the whole notion of how people get around. You don't seem to get it at all.

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Originally Posted by kony View Post
And how arrogant is it to talk in large about cities you probably never been to or maybe just as a layover for a couple of days ...

Let's agree to disagree.
Seems you have been stuck there too long, and have forgotten how other cities run themselves in more sustainable, environmental ways.
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Old May 30th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #583
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Seems you have been stuck there too long, and have forgotten how other cities run themselves in more sustainable, environmental ways
having grown up in Paris, reckonized as one of the best example of urban planning in the world, i think i, at least, grew up with pretty fine example of good urban development

and i make sure i return there few times a year. So my assessment about Duvai Vs Hong-Kong for a few things like bike riding opportunities, placement and design of NEW iconic towers, or public space is pretty accurate and on point.

Bike riding possibilities in a safe and protected environnement is certainly not limited to Dubai Marina by the way
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Old May 30th, 2017, 05:05 PM   #584
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To hell with all the haters, I like it
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Old May 30th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #585
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We have been use to wayyyy better building in HK since decades... so yes, getting this is truly an insult to others in this area...

This should be a cheap architect with very bad tastes!
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Old May 31st, 2017, 04:31 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by Parisian75 View Post
We have been use to wayyyy better building in HK since decades... so yes, getting this is truly an insult to others in this area...

This should be a cheap architect with very bad tastes!


Kpf designed not one but two skyscrapers in hk and they are both hideous
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Old May 31st, 2017, 11:55 AM   #587
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"Streamline/Art Moderne" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streamline_Moderne )

By Tommaso Petruzzi (Flickr)


By Patrick Ng (Flickr)


By Finbarr Fallon (Flickr)
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Old May 31st, 2017, 12:10 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
...

Seems you have been stuck there too long, and have forgotten how other cities run themselves in more sustainable, environmental ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
having grown up in Paris, reckonized as one of the best example of urban planning in the world, i think i, at least, grew up with pretty fine example of good urban development

and i make sure i return there few times a year. So my assessment about Duvai Vs Hong-Kong for a few things like bike riding opportunities, placement and design of NEW iconic towers, or public space is pretty accurate and on point.

Bike riding possibilities in a safe and protected environnement is certainly not limited to Dubai Marina by the way

Singapore's HDB ...





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Old May 31st, 2017, 08:24 PM   #589
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Kony, you're a brave man cycling in Dubai. However it's hardly common. I can't recall seeing a single cyclist on my visits. HK's also not a cycling city - it's too crowded - but it makes up for this with superb public transport. Dubai has those two metro lines, which are very nice indeed, but it has a way to go before it catches HK.

I also think Hkskyline has a point about the climate. I'm not blaming Dubai for its climate, but it's not a comfortable temperature in which to cycle (and indeed neither is HK).

Any implication that Dubai has green credentials are also laughable. Its CO2 emissions per capita are off the scale, and projects like the huge indoor skiing slope in Emirates Mall, or the constantly dredged artificial coastline of the Palm Jumeira, are surely the very antithesis of sustainable.

I also chime with Hkskyline on accessible waterfront. Hong Kong has the Tsim Sha Tsui waterfront on one side, which is now being mirrored by the reclaimed parkland on the Hong Kong side. Those are right in the centre! By contrast Dubai's Creek is pretty grim. And sure, Dubai has public beaches, but they're not advertised or obviously accessible. I also don't know of any Dubai beaches as appealing as Repulse Bay, Deep Water Bay, Shek O or - best of all - Tai Long Wan.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 08:37 PM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
what about getting more ambition for Hong Kong ?

At such proeminent location in Kowloon this tower, along with K11, is an insult to elegant architecture : think about architecture wonders like Bank of China Tower who made the reputation of Hong Kong Skyline...
What about HK's new high speed rail terminal? I'd say that's architecturally beautiful and ambitious. I also see ambition in huge recent bridges like the Stonecutters Island Bridge or the link to Macau. There are only a handful of attractive towers in Dubai, and very little by the world's top architects. Dubai has the world's greatest collection of architecturally hideous towers. Most projects there are just vulgar.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 09:50 PM   #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
No one was talking about "vibrant street life". That is not the point here. I was talking about nice street landscaping and city planning...and Dubai may surprise you in many ways (apparently you don't know it very well)

If i want vibrant city street , yes i know i can find it in Wan Chai or in Sham shui po "bazar" streets in Hong Kong...but again that is not what was talked about it.

Just the last developpment of Dubai : Dubai Water canal is out of this world in term of detail and "coolness"...and it's not even finished yet...go and check it out !!

Now Dubai has also its "vibrant city life" part if it's what you're into and it makes a better use of its beachfront or harbour front than what i see on Victoria Harbour in HK where i hardly see any restaurant (talking especially about the promenade near The ferris wheel in central (HK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
So a single project signs the obituary for all urban planning of Hong Kong. Yet a single project in Dubai basically makes it the next Greenwich Village.
Greenwich Village isn't known for its urban planning, rather lack of it which made it famous for vibrant street life in the era of auto-centric planning.

I actually like this tower, but it looks more like a filler and is wasted potential for the location. The shorter building just looks awful.
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Old June 1st, 2017, 03:37 AM   #592
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Kony, you're a brave man cycling in Dubai. However it's hardly common. I can't recall seeing a single cyclist on my visits.
That's the very key point i was trying to make to Hk Skyline but he couldn't get it right : if you are visiting Dubai like the regular tourist, you will go to Malls, Downtown Dubai (Burj Khalifa Tower), the Gold Souk, the Beach, Burj Al Arab, the desert and then you will be commuting back and forth in taxis along 16-lanes Sheikh Zayed Road. None of those places will be the places to meet regular cyclist !!! either because it's not appropriate, or because it's too pedestrian crowded to use a bike.

Now when you actually live in Dubai you see the city from another perspective...you don't visit but you live the city...bikes are everywhere in Dubai Marina, JLT District, and heavily also in Deira as there it's a cheap way to go from A to B...But again don't expect Dubai to be Amsterdam : i was just stating that it's way better than Hong Kong to ride a bike safely in your neighborhood (provided you live in one of those bike friendly neighborhood which are more in Dubai than HK).

Well Dubai even implemented those city rent-a-bike systems like in Europe, thing that i didn't see in hong-kong...while in Hong-Kong bike are forbidden in most places and were even not admitted in MTR till a few years ago.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
I also think Hkskyline has a point about the climate. I'm not blaming Dubai for its climate, but it's not a comfortable temperature in which to cycle (and indeed neither is HK).
It is most part of the year. At 25 to 35 degrees between oct and april, Dubai has weather of Seychelles...so very ok to ride bikes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
Any implication that Dubai has green credentials are also laughable.
Well at least i never said such thing, i said it's public spaces is often better thought of than HK...also Hk is way too overcrowded to the point that i always feel in lack of personal space (it's indeed the densest city on earth)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
And sure, Dubai has public beaches, but they're not advertised or obviously accessible. I also don't know of any Dubai beaches as appealing as Repulse Bay, Deep Water Bay, Shek O or - best of all - Tai Long Wan.
Well everyone knows how to go to the beach in Dubai: the metro + tram takes you there !!

Well Repulse bay is ok beach but doesn't quite compare to Dubai's Al Manzar beach in Dubai with nice Palm trees and white sand...but most tourists don't go there and prefer the most directly accessible beaches of jumeirah.


Last edited by kony; June 1st, 2017 at 03:53 AM.
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Old June 1st, 2017, 03:47 AM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
What about HK's new high speed rail terminal? .
so far it's in construction. I will judge when i can see it finished.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
There are only a handful of attractive towers in Dubai, and very little by the world's top architects.
That is very wrong...and by the way some "world's top architects" or architects office can produce some damn ugly towers ....didn't someone wrote below that reknowned architect firm KPF has produced 2 towers in Hong Kong, both looking very ugly ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
Dubai has the world's greatest collection of architecturally hideous towers. Most projects there are just vulgar.
ah ah , you got to be kidding. If you are in Hong Kong climb any big hill and observe all those ugly tower blocks going over and over the horizon...last week i went to Lion's Rock in Kowloon and it was very obvious. i don't know if Hong Kong has more ugly of those than Dubai but for sure here it has turned into an industry...unless you have seen those Hong-Kong "chicken huts" (as my good friend call them), you cannot talk about how ugly they look in other cities...

The best looking towers in Hong Kong are in Central/Wanchai/causeway bay and most were built over 15-20 years ago...since then Hong Kong sadly lost all creativity and decided to put quick and direct profit as the only key element of any new commercial building. That's when FINANCE kill beauty of cities...

New World Center and K11 in kowloon are perfect examples of that.

Last edited by kony; June 1st, 2017 at 03:56 AM.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 12:05 AM   #594
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"Money talks" is the most transparent form of governance in HK. "Planning" is one way to legitimize corruption. Finding a trail in HK (donkeys in Hk?) ...





Kowloon East


Kwun Tong Playground




Hong Kong Children's Hospital (~US$1.7 biilion )

http://www.ekeo.gov.hk/tc/green_map/...ding_HKCH.html
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 12:28 AM   #595
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Looks to ugly This building should be not have been built in the waterfront area
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 01:56 AM   #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post

The best looking towers in Hong Kong are in Central/Wanchai/causeway bay and most were built over 15-20 years ago...since then Hong Kong sadly lost all creativity and decided to put quick and direct profit as the only key element of any new commercial building. That's when FINANCE kill beauty of cities...
Pretty sure the entire point of a new commercial building is profit. Hong Kong is mature enough to not be in a dick measuring contest to prove its worth. I can't say the same about some other cities being bandied about by some people in this thread.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 02:49 AM   #597
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Pretty sure the entire point of a new commercial building is profit. Hong Kong is mature enough to not be in a dick measuring contest to prove its worth. I can't say the same about some other cities being bandied about by some people in this thread.
Do you realize that profitable building development AND nice and elegant tower is not incompatible ? In fact there are thousands of sucessful examples of this throughout the world (and even in Hong Kong of all places)...
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 05:03 AM   #598
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I would never want my beloved HK to be like Dubai. I really feel Dubai is overly artificial. When you look at their buildings, you could feel the money, but you don't feel the soul of the city.

I think K-11, New world redevelopment and Harbour Grand hotel etc. are just totally disappointing designs. I must say I never like the HK government headquarters. No surprise. Very boring designs!!

I prefer somewhere like Singapore, Tokyo (partly) and Sydney, where you would always expect something exciting being erected up! Something really representative the soul or "contents" of the city!
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 05:45 AM   #599
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I would never want my beloved HK to be like Dubai. I really feel Dubai is overly artificial. When you look at their buildings, you could feel the money, but you don't feel the soul of the city.

I think K-11, New world redevelopment and Harbour Grand hotel etc. are just totally disappointing designs. I must say I never like the HK government headquarters. No surprise. Very boring designs!!

I prefer somewhere like Singapore, Tokyo (partly) and Sydney, where you would always expect something exciting being erected up! Something really representative the soul or "contents" of the city!
Agree with you in all respects apart from Sydney hahaha we're terrible at building these days
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 01:22 PM   #600
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Agree with you in all respects apart from Sydney hahaha we're terrible at building these days
I personally find that the new Barangaroo site in Sydney very futuristic. I wish we could replace our NW redevelopment building with their.

On the other hand, Tokyo is not perfect either. You can see some of their new buildings can be a bit boring too.
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