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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #181
Stahlsturm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Do not quote my sentences talking about other things because I do not care.
I was trying to explain (maybe not well enough...) that with different cars you can drive differently under adverse conditions because they are better equipped to deal with such. And, that knowing how your car handles makes a great deal of difference.

Plus, in principle we are all agreeing with you so quit being such a disagreeable grump
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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
Plus, in principle we are all agreeing with you so quit being such a disagreeable grump
I'm not a disagreeable grump
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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Speed is usually a factor, not necessarily a cause. Very few fatal accidents are directly the result of speeding (i.e. it is not the leading cause).
That's the point. In Spain, #1 cause are distractions. Speed, of course, makes accidents worse. But it is hardly the cause.

I think governments enforce speed limits not because speeding is the main cause of accidents or tickets make money, but because it's easy to control. Current technology makes it really cheap. Pursuing dangerous driving requires a lot of policemen on the roads, and this is really expensive compared to a speed camera.

Last edited by verreme; June 11th, 2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
[...] weather does not kill while driving (unless you're hit by a lightning)[...]
Slightly off-topic, but you'll almost certainly survive a lightning hit on your car. It's the Faraday cage principle

As for speed: more speed will almost always make an accident worse. The only exception I can think of now would be a rock falling which you'd evade due to your speed being higher or so. Pretty much everything else results in a higher chance in damage, injuries or casualties.

On the other hand, speed isn't very likely to cause an accident on quiet motorways. Only the speed difference between cars can become an issue. On almost all other roads however, it will require inhuman reaction times for many situations, which could cause accidents just due to the relatively excessive speed.

So I guess I agree with most that has been said here.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #185
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Slightly off-topic, but you'll almost certainly survive a lightning hit on your car. It's the Faraday cage principle
I am a physicist, I know
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Old June 11th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Examples:
A16 Rotterdam>Breda A16 Breda to Moerdijk has been upgraded to 130 km/h. --- After that tunnels, merger lanes and traffic is deemed too dangerous
A15 Rotterdam>Spijkenisse --- High volumes of traffic and tunnel
A12 All the way from The Hague to Utrecht & beyond. ---Volume of traffic and noise reduction in build up areas
A4 Den Haag>Amsterdam -----High volume of traffic on all. A13 it's impossible, A2? Have you got a death wish?
A13 in it's whole.
A2 's Hertogenboch>Amsterdam

Not even in Germany have they got unlimited speed limits in areas with high volumes of traffic. In the Ruhrgebiet I can only think of the A2 between Oberhausen and Dortmund, all other motorways are limited to between 80 and 130.
In the Netherlands it is impossible to apply unlimited speed limits on their motorways. High volumes of traffic, compared with this weird Dutch ambition to jump on an overtaking lane without looking would reduce life expectancy in the Netherlands. You sound like a boy racer to me, but many Dutch citizens are drivers who are not too sure on how to handle themselves behind the wheel. I see them in Germany everyday, and the phrase "das Gelbe Gefahr" is not without reason.

Top Causes Of Car Accidents

Car accidents don't happen out of the blue, as there is always a cause for affect. Even with today's safety technology, millions of people die each year in car accidents.
Some of the most common causes for car accidents are listed below:
Speeding - Despite the law and increased awareness, speeding is still the top cause of car accidents. As long as humans want to get to places fast, and car manufacturers make automobiles that can break speed limits, then speed will continue to be a killer. The faster the car, then the more time it takes to stop and the more deadly the impact. If a car crashes at 60mph, the force released is more than double what it would be at 40mph.
Weather - Something we have little control over is the weather. Conditions such as fog, rain and snow increase the chances of an accident, obscuring driver's sight and making it harder to stop in time. When driving in bad weather you should take all the recommended and necessary precautions to remain safe.
Drunk Driving - Being drunk whilst driving puts yourself and everybody around you in danger. It impairs your judgment, so you are likely to take more risks and you'll probably become more aggressive towards other motorists. The main problem with drunk driving is your reflexes. It can take the brain more than twice the amount of time to send messages to your limbs so simple things like turning corners become problematic.
Sleepiness - Being tired at the wheel is selfish and stupid. Drivers, who crash their vehicles when falling asleep at the wheel, account for more than 100,000 US car accidents per year. (National Traffic Safety Administration). If you have a long journey to make then share driving duties with another person and take regular breaks. If it becomes too much hit a motel for a nap, or pull over at a truck stop.
Distractions - Driving should take your full attention, looking away for a split second can cause an accident. This includes things like changing the stereo, using a mobile phone, interacting with passengers and even slowing down to look at scenery or other accidents.
Abiding by the law and using your common sense can prevent all of these causes of car accidents. And remember, just because you are a responsible driver doesn't mean other people are so stay alert.
Sorry forgot to repeat, I meant at night, as per the post before that. When traffic volumes are extremely low.
I don't care about day speed limits as regardless of speed limits it's often physically impossible to go much faster anyhow.
All the examples I give were assuming 11pm>5am...

Secondly, what is your source ? I want numbers or an objective source, not some rubbish propaganda...
''some of the most common causes'' is vague. What percentage of accidents (and in what country) is caused by speeding ?
Again, I understand speed is a factor in accidents, but it is not the cause, that is propaganda by stupid organisations and misinformed government.

Only ''noise reduction in build up areas'' is rubbish, that should not be a factor.
Aside from that, I meant at night in all my examples. I mostly travel at night anyhow for the longer journeys, makes a FAR more relaxing drive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Usual reductio ad absurdum.
We're talking about car accidents, not silly things.
He is making a just as silly statement as you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'm not talking about speed limits set by authorities. I'm talking about speed appropriate to the conditions (traffic, road layout, weather). If you go too fast considering all these, an accident is much more likely to kill you than if you go slower.
Yeah, so what ? Do something about the cause of an accident rather than the speed factor.
Quote:
I disagree with Chris. For me speeding is the key factor. If you die in a 40 km/h accident, you should have driven at 30.
''key factor'' is not the same as cause.

Regardless that speed is a key factor, you should reduce the CAUSE of an accident, not a factor in the accident.
By your logic we should make cars drive at speeds that kills are highly unlikely, like 30 km/h.

Last edited by snowdog; June 11th, 2012 at 06:03 PM.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #187
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A key leads to a cause. This is a load of bullshit I am reading here. Speed kills. It's a tag line in the UK. I speed myself at times, especially at night. In Germany I will go up 170 km in my van, in France. Italy and Austria 140... But speed kills.

A driver drives at 140 km/h through a narrow street in a 30 km/h zone. It's a dead end street, and at the end of it is a brick wall. He crashes and dies. By your logic, it's not the speed that killed him, but that brick wall.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #188
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There's a pretty wide spread "Deputy"-mentality which I find supremely annoying.
Please explain this.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
''key factor'' is not the same as cause.
Talking about silly statements...
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #190
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I'm with you, G...
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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I'm with you, G...
Yes, I noticed
One of the few times we agree on something
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Old June 11th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
A driver drives at 140 km/h through a narrow street in a 30 km/h zone. It's a dead end street, and at the end of it is a brick wall. He crashes and dies. By your logic, it's not the speed that killed him, but that brick wall.
"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you". Jeremy Clarkson
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Old June 11th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #193
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"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you". Jeremy Clarkson
LOL I like that!
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Old June 11th, 2012, 08:10 PM   #194
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Slovakia -

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Zauvik si tu, u mojim mislima i grudima..
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Old June 11th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #195
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unfortunately similar sceners quite often are visible also in Poland
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Old June 11th, 2012, 09:55 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
You are wrong. The cause is not "high speed", it's inappropriate speed for a particular situation. There's a VAST difference here.
Yeah, if you drive 5 km/h through a curve, you might get hit by someone coming with 40 km/h from behind not seeing you because of the curve, but usually it's about driving too fast, not too slowly. "Inappropriate speed" is just a more proffesional expression, but it almost always means a "too high speed" (unless you're talking about speed limits, which may be too high in a certain situation, in which case I agree with you).
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Old June 11th, 2012, 10:09 PM   #197
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I think he meant more like high speed isn't always inappropriate, if it corresponds to the road and driving conditions.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #198
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I meant too high speed. At first I wanted to write just "speed". I guess some people would be asking me what kind of speed I'm talking about.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #199
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There's a great difference what is appropriate for the conditions and what the government wants you do drive...

eg.
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.860645...320.58,,0,2.75
100km/h there at night is just idiotic.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 01:26 AM   #200
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One thing which people do a lot in Portugal and is good, is when something happens on a motorway at night, and people start to break, they also turn their hazard lights on, which sends a message to the cars behind who also turn their hazard lights down and then get to slow down more slowly. It does happen in the UK too, but not as much
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