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Old June 12th, 2012, 04:56 AM   #201
LtBk
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Also somebody mentions German driving depends on region. Which states has better drivers? Bavaria? Hessen? NRW? Saxony?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #202
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If you think you are bad driver, take look at this, it will make you feel better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAZCm...layer_embedded
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
There's a great difference what is appropriate for the conditions and what the government wants you do drive...

eg.
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.860645...320.58,,0,2.75
100km/h there at night is just idiotic.
And who should be deciding what is appropriate? You?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:38 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Please explain this.
I'm referring to people who are glued to the left lane going 5 under the speed limit even though there'd be plenty of space to let someone pass. But they think "We're not allowed so you're staying behind me". It's a good thing I'm not in power anywhere or I'd come down on that like a ton of bricks. Not having that option I simply pass them on the right (which is illegal too but MUCH less sanctioned than tailgating) and they can flash their high beams at me in frustration as they disappear in my rearview mirror.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
And who should be deciding what is appropriate? You?
Who else ? I'm the one who IS in the situation, not some stocky buerocrat who has likely never even seen the stretch of road I'm on.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:44 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Also somebody mentions German driving depends on region. Which states has better drivers? Bavaria? Hessen? NRW? Saxony?
I think that's actually too general still. I notice that drivers with big city plates usually drive more aggressive but also a LOT more skillful while drivers from rural areas (which you can usually spot easily by them having 3 letters before the dash on their licence plate) are a lot more relaxed but easily panic and do weird things when in a tight situation. I think it has to do with the environment they usually drive in.

Warning young and inexperienced drivers of the so-called "Drei Buchstaben Fahrer" is equivalent to warning them of the "Gelbe Gefahr". Both indicate not necessarily a bad driver but one unused to the conditions that apply on an Autobahn and thus, prone to reactions one might not exactly anticipate. After a few years you actually develop a sense for them.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'm not a disagreeable grump
You're not ?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
Who else ? I'm the one who IS in the situation, not some stocky buerocrat who has likely never even seen the stretch of road I'm on.
Right, that's it then. Abolish all speed limits!

Question: How old are you and your Dutch friend?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 11:03 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Right, that's it then. Abolish all speed limits!

Question: How old are you and your Dutch friend?
I don't even know my "Dutch friend" to be honest but I'm going to be 45 next month and I've been driving (accident free) since I was 18 so rest assured, I know what I'm talking about.

And nobody said to abolish ALL speed limits, I know plenty of those that make a LOT of sense but I also feel that in many instances the urge to regulate by an overboarding buerocracy just goes way too far (and that's actually a rather global observation, not just limited to traffic) and should be questioned a lot more.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #210
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I question a lot of speed limits, but you and that flying Dutchman give the impression that hardly any accidents are speed related, and you both feel you can put your foot down wherever you want. Boy racers if you ask me, and these are the sickos that wind up in hospital in the first place!
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Old June 12th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I question a lot of speed limits, but you and that flying Dutchman give the impression that hardly any accidents are speed related, and you both feel you can put your foot down wherever you want. Boy racers if you ask me, and these are the sickos that wind up in hospital in the first place!
I doubt I still count as a boy, racer or otherwise at my ripe age but have it your way

I think it is an oversimplification to blame accidents on speed. Of course speed is involved but the real problem is the not paying attention to what's going on. In my experience you only end up in situations where you suddenly are way too fast for the situation by not having paid attention beforehand. And people who are used to always have a limit set before them stop paying attention. Why do you think it is that the Autobahn is still the safest road there is (at least that is what German traffic statistics tell us). It's not because we can go 250 kmh, it's because we pay attention. Less and less, sadly but still more than many others. I recall a study in Denmark where they raised the speed limit on certain stretches of motorway and the accident numbers actually went DOWN instead of the carnage that was prophecized by the media and the Green Party.

I hope you can understand that to me speed limits are just one facet of a much grander problem.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
And who should be deciding what is appropriate? You?
The driver already have to decide for himself what speed is appropriate for the journey despite what ever the speed limit may say. If you aren't capable of doing that, then you aren't capable of driving.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
Why do you think it is that the Autobahn is still the safest road there is (at least that is what German traffic statistics tell us). It's not because we can go 250 kmh, it's because we pay attention. Less and less, sadly but still more than many others.
I think this is the principle that makes the "shared space" project works. You take off signals and traffic lights and leave drivers free to drive according own conscience. In towns like Bohmte in Germany this worked well and accidents dropped a lot. No signals means more attention, more attention means less crashes.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
The driver already have to decide for himself what speed is appropriate for the journey despite what ever the speed limit may say. If you aren't capable of doing that, then you aren't capable of driving.
+1

The government stops allowing drivers to think for themselves these days.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 08:28 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
(unless you're talking about speed limits, which may be too high in a certain situation, in which case I agree with you).
Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
I think he meant more like high speed isn't always inappropriate, if it corresponds to the road and driving conditions.
I mean, you can't trust a posted limit either way. You need to pay attention to what's going on around you. You need to know your car and how it handles under different conditions and then drive accordingly. Speed and Speed limits is just one of many factors.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
+1

The government stops allowing drivers to think for themselves these days.
And that summs it up. THAT is my main complaint. It also goes much further than just driving. Warning labels, labels on food etcetc. Regulations where you look and I always wonder, "My God, how did we survive all these millenia without ? O_o"
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Old June 13th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
And that summs it up. THAT is my main complaint. It also goes much further than just driving. Warning labels, labels on food etcetc. Regulations where you look and I always wonder, "My God, how did we survive all these millenia without ? O_o"
The point is, that we did not. The society looked much worse all those millenia than it looks now. Most of the population was just screwed all that time...

Last edited by Surel; June 13th, 2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 02:09 PM   #218
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The point is, that we did not. The society looked much worse all those millenia than it looks now. Most of the population was just screwed all that time...
Point of views. In my opinion this society is just more materialist than in past, often based on "what you have" and not on "what you are"; just slaves of goverments that want us all the same and see us like a herd of sheeps, saying you even what you have to think and say in the name of a "political correctness"
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Old June 13th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
labels on food
I wouldn't buy food without that. But we're drifting away from the topic.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #220
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The point is, that we did not. The society looked much worse all those millenia than it looks now. Most of the population was just screwed all that time...
I partly agree. Of course, due to the (more or less working) rule of law we do live much better and more safe than a century ago. But, in order to achieve that, is it really necessary to over regulate ?

I mean, I'm a convinced European and I think that the many states of Europe growing together is a great thing after all those centuries of being at each other's throats, usually at the whim of some noble blue-blooded bastard or (in more recent times) at the call of some Austrian with a funny moustache. BUT to get there, is it really necessary to regulate by law the size of bananas ? I think not...

Or, different example. In recent times (the last 2 years) 3 different family breweries from around here, who each have been in business for several centuries had to be closed down because in order to keep running they had to invest over 100000 EUR each, not because their equipment was broken but because their equipment did not comply with EU regulations and thus went out of business.

In the end all these regulations which supposedly make us all safe and healthy will decimate the variety of life and will leave us with nothing but mediocracy.

Sorry for going so completely off topic by now I'm just trying to explain the motivation behind my somewhat controversial (to some at least) opinion.
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