daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:47 AM   #161
Satyricon84
Ice Road Metaller
 
Satyricon84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Monza
Posts: 2,724
Likes (Received): 110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Italy for example is desperate to reduce road deaths by stricter enforcements of its speed limits.
No, this is just for administrations to get money with speed controls. In Italy the company owner of a highway has the possibility to increase the speed limit from 130 Km/h to 150Km/h on highways with at least 3x2+emergency lane and with safety tutor system (even if nobody never increased it so far). Fatalities in Italy have as first cause alcohol and drugs. A drunkard driving at 80 Km/h is much more dangerous than somebody driving at 150-160 km/h. It's simply statistic: in 2009 the 76% of crashes was on urban roads, causing 72,6% of injured and 44,7% of deaths.
Of course, with higher speed limit you must have also good driving skills...and in a country where still you can buy your drive license with "right friendships" without do any exams, this is still not possible here.....
Satyricon84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:52 AM   #162
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
No, it's a fact that high speed is the leading cause of road accidents, followed by alcohol.
No it is not:

http://www.swov.nl/cognos/cgi-bin/pp...achtoffers%26L

In 2009 in Holland,
124 of the 19,378 accidents were caused by an excessive speed.
only 21 out of 597 casualties, died due to excessive speed.

Sure speed plays a big factor in most accidents regardless of course, but saying a lot of accidents are caused by speeding is nonsense. Propaganda by all kinds of organisations and governments. By far the largest single cause of deaths is not giving/getting right of way.

Last edited by snowdog; June 11th, 2012 at 03:02 AM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #163
Stahlsturm
Registered User
 
Stahlsturm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 183
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
On the Bundestraßen Germans have fully lost the plot. No good driving to be found in Germany on secondary roads. Extremely slow, with sudden breaking and distracted drivers, makes Germany one of the worst countries to drive in off the motorway. Of course there won't be a single German driver agreeing with me here....
Well, I'd love to disagree but unfortunately there are a large number of drivers here just like you describe them. Especially on Sunday afternoons.
Stahlsturm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #164
Stahlsturm
Registered User
 
Stahlsturm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 183
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
No, it's a fact that high speed is the leading cause of road accidents, followed by alcohol.
You are wrong. The cause is not "high speed", it's inappropriate speed for a particular situation. There's a VAST difference here.


Add...: And how did this mutate into another discussion about speed limts ?

Last edited by Stahlsturm; June 11th, 2012 at 10:39 AM. Reason: .
Stahlsturm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #165
CarltonHill
Kim Domingo
 
CarltonHill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MNL
Posts: 1,484
Likes (Received): 1577

Metro Manila Skyway & South Luzon Expressway, PHILIPPINES

CarltonHill no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #166
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Your opinion: A lot
My opinion: A small minority. You don't try to reduce deaths by lowering speed when the reason for the accident is something else, you enforce the reasons why an accident happens in the first place ( like not respecting the right of way). I know reducing speed reduces the amount of deaths even if the accident is caused by a different reason, but imho it's unacceptable to lower the speed limit for this reason, enforce the actual CAUSE of accidents instead, rather than a factor in the accident.


Where do you draw the line between mobility&freedom VS safety ?
I highly doubt the ''massively reduced deaths'' are only because of speed enforcement.

Imho the wrong reasons.

You don't see the same whingers in Poland where the road safety is far worse yet they increased 130>140 km/h...


Most motorways in the Randstad in Holland can easily yes, you are driving on 2x3/2x4/2x5 empty flat&straight roads, well lit, nowhere near any wildlife...

You can literally see miles ahead and even put one extra (or more) lane(s) as an overtake buffer...

Examples:
A16 Rotterdam>Breda A16 Breda to Moerdijk has been upgraded to 130 km/h. After that tunnels, merger lanes and traffic is deemed too dangerous
A15 Rotterdam>Spijkenisse High volumes of traffic and tunnel
A12 All the way from The Hague to Utrecht & beyond. Volume of traffic and noise reduction in build up areas
A4 Den Haag>Amsterdam High volume of traffic on all. A13 it's impossible, A2? Have you got a death wish?
A13 in it's whole.
A2 's Hertogenboch>Amsterdam
Not even in Germany have they got unlimited speed limits in areas with high volumes of traffic. In the Ruhrgebiet I can only think of the A2 between Oberhausen and Dortmund, all other motorways are limited to between 80 and 130.
In the Netherlands it is impossible to apply unlimited speed limits on their motorways. High volumes of traffic, compared with this weird Dutch ambition to jump on an overtaking lane without looking would reduce life expectancy in the Netherlands. You sound like a boy racer to me, but many Dutch citizens are drivers who are not too sure on how to handle themselves behind the wheel. I see them in Germany everyday, and the phrase "das Gelbe Gefahr" is not without reason.

Top Causes Of Car Accidents

Car accidents don't happen out of the blue, as there is always a cause for affect. Even with today's safety technology, millions of people die each year in car accidents.
Some of the most common causes for car accidents are listed below:
Speeding - Despite the law and increased awareness, speeding is still the top cause of car accidents. As long as humans want to get to places fast, and car manufacturers make automobiles that can break speed limits, then speed will continue to be a killer. The faster the car, then the more time it takes to stop and the more deadly the impact. If a car crashes at 60mph, the force released is more than double what it would be at 40mph.
Weather - Something we have little control over is the weather. Conditions such as fog, rain and snow increase the chances of an accident, obscuring driver's sight and making it harder to stop in time. When driving in bad weather you should take all the recommended and necessary precautions to remain safe.
Drunk Driving - Being drunk whilst driving puts yourself and everybody around you in danger. It impairs your judgment, so you are likely to take more risks and you'll probably become more aggressive towards other motorists. The main problem with drunk driving is your reflexes. It can take the brain more than twice the amount of time to send messages to your limbs so simple things like turning corners become problematic.
Sleepiness - Being tired at the wheel is selfish and stupid. Drivers, who crash their vehicles when falling asleep at the wheel, account for more than 100,000 US car accidents per year. (National Traffic Safety Administration). If you have a long journey to make then share driving duties with another person and take regular breaks. If it becomes too much hit a motel for a nap, or pull over at a truck stop.
Distractions - Driving should take your full attention, looking away for a split second can cause an accident. This includes things like changing the stereo, using a mobile phone, interacting with passengers and even slowing down to look at scenery or other accidents.
Abiding by the law and using your common sense can prevent all of these causes of car accidents. And remember, just because you are a responsible driver doesn't mean other people are so stay alert.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #167
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Weather has little to do with accidents. Weather+speeding does. But it's not weather fault: it just lowers the speed limits, but it is still speeding that kills you, not the weather.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:02 PM   #168
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Speed is usually a factor, not necessarily a cause. Very few fatal accidents are directly the result of speeding (i.e. it is not the leading cause).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:25 PM   #169
Stahlsturm
Registered User
 
Stahlsturm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 183
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Speed is usually a factor, not necessarily a cause. Very few fatal accidents are directly the result of speeding (i.e. it is not the leading cause).
As I wrote before, it is when speed is inappropriate in any given situation when there's a problem.
Stahlsturm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #170
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

I disagree with Chris. For me speeding is the key factor. If you die in a 40 km/h accident, you should have driven at 30.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:32 PM   #171
Satyricon84
Ice Road Metaller
 
Satyricon84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Monza
Posts: 2,724
Likes (Received): 110

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I disagree with Chris. For me speeding is the key factor. If you die in a 40 km/h accident, you should have driven at 30.
You can die even stumbling while walking, also you don't have to walk anymore?
Satyricon84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:34 PM   #172
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
You can die even stumbling while walking, also you don't have to walk anymore?
Usual reductio ad absurdum.
We're talking about car accidents, not silly things.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #173
Stahlsturm
Registered User
 
Stahlsturm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 183
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I disagree with Chris. For me speeding is the key factor. If you die in a 40 km/h accident, you should have driven at 30.
Yes, but there are situations where you reasonably can drive 40 and there are those where you should drive slower because of traffic, weather and a bunch of possible other reasons. That is what I mean by speed that's inappropriate for a situation. And as an experienced driver one has to constantly assess the situation and make sure that speed and the surrounding match. That is how you get home safely and isn't that what we all want ?
Stahlsturm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #174
Satyricon84
Ice Road Metaller
 
Satyricon84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Monza
Posts: 2,724
Likes (Received): 110

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
We're talking about car accidents, not silly things.
"If you die in a 40 km/h accident, you should have driven at 30". This is silly, cause you just generalize on a thing that has too many variables, giving blame just at speed. Maybe driving at 30 km/h you die the same, having bad luck to find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong moment.
Satyricon84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #175
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

I'm not talking about speed limits set by authorities. I'm talking about speed appropriate to the conditions (traffic, road layout, weather). If you go too fast considering all these, an accident is much more likely to kill you than if you go slower.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #176
Satyricon84
Ice Road Metaller
 
Satyricon84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Monza
Posts: 2,724
Likes (Received): 110

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'm not talking about speed limits set by authorities. I'm talking about speed appropriate to the conditions (traffic, road layout, weather). If you go too fast considering all these, an accident is much more likely to kill you than if you go slower.
This is what we are saying, that speed has to be appropriate to the conditions and not set by authorities. 130 Km/h driving a Ferrari is not the same than 130 Km/h with 1988 Fiat Panda, but for the law there's no difference.
Satyricon84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #177
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

What you say may be correct, but we were talking about weather, not Ferrari&Pandas.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #178
Stahlsturm
Registered User
 
Stahlsturm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 183
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
What you say may be correct, but we were talking about weather, not Ferrari&Pandas.
Yeah, but you can drive curves at a rather different speed with a Ferrari than with a Panda. Same with braking skills. Not that I'd know just what you can do with a Ferrari but I know the difference just between my Audi 80 and my Alfa 156. There are things I can do safely with one but certainly not with the other.
Stahlsturm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #179
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,491
Likes (Received): 2104

I never said otherwise, I never mentioned Audis, Ferraris, Pandas and I do not care about them. I was talking about weather, and the fact that to me weather does not kill while driving (unless you're hit by a lightning), but speeding does. Do not quote my sentences talking about other things because I do not care.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 04:01 PM   #180
Satyricon84
Ice Road Metaller
 
Satyricon84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Monza
Posts: 2,724
Likes (Received): 110

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
What you say may be correct, but we were talking about weather, not Ferrari&Pandas.
It's the same thing, lately models of cars have technologies that permit to drive in bad conditions almost as in good conditions, while there are cars that shouldn't be on road neither if the road is empty, drove by people that should drive only a mower. But authorities give blame always to speeding, just cause is the most simple thing to punish and the most remunerative. Germany is the example, with no speed limits on the 45% of the highways, higher speed on extraurban roads and in general worse weather conditions especially in winter, has less fatalities than Italy with all his speed limits, safety tutors, radar controls and all these stuff... http://www.omniauto.it/magazine/1787...-e-di-439-vite
Satyricon84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium