Melbourne Public Transport: NE Rail

[Yardmaster]

Originally Posted by John_Proctor

The suggestion Yardy has been they're trying to open the new Epping Station by the end of this month...

Your photos (and some from the DOT website I posted in Melbourne PT) seem to indicate this might be possible with most of the track adn overhead layed for the duplication and quite a bit of fit out completed as well.

Epping Station is the final hurdle to that I guess.

Not sure where the suggestion came from: opening the line to the existing Epping Station by the end of the month looks possible, but there's no track to the new station, which I wasn't able to view closely, but it was clear that the roof of the building at street or road-level was just a steel frame.

Signalling & overheads for the new up line to Keon Park appeared to be in place (with the signals turned 90 degrees). All that remains to be done is to slew & join the track at Lalor, and Keon Park (I noted the cross-over already in place at Epping): and finish the station at Thomastown.



It looked like there was a bit of work to be done there, but the pace was fairly relaxed: one of the older workmen struck up across the tracks to me (I think you can see him in the photo above): "You'd have a few photos, wouldn't you?" Dare I point out this was after one of the Thomastown locals had wandered in, and was somewhat in awe of the change that had been made to his station.

btw: I'm not a pensioner- there seems to be an implication that this is the case- and probably never will be: never recieved a cent from CentreLink or any of its predecessors in my life.

[cjm911]

how long before the locals "decorate" that?

[Yardmaster]

It's a bit unfortunate- as you can see from recent postings above- that if station premises are considered to be below standard, they should be burnt down, but if they're above standard the same people will scoff in horror at the extravagence?

Who sets the standard here? The alternate proposal above for Thomastown (which I guess is somewhere up the Hunter Valley) above has no roof over the footbridge: so you race- pushing your pram or your wheelchair- in the rain. Any passenger stats for that?

[L2]

Originally Posted by Yardmaster

Who sets the standard here? The alternate proposal above for Thomastown (which I guess is somewhere up the Hunter Valley) above has no roof over the footbridge: so you race- pushing your pram or your wheelchair- in the rain. Any passenger stats for that?

None of the footpaths outside Thomo traino have shelters over them, so you already have to walk in the rain all the way from home before you can cross a 10 metre-long footbridge undercover.

[Yardmaster]

Originally Posted by L2

None of the footpaths outside Thomo traino have shelters over them, so you already have to walk in the rain all the way from home before you can cross a 10 metre-long footbridge undercover.

My last Melways shows 200 car-parking places available at Thomastown, 2 bus routes terminating there, and another 3 passing through. Hence far more boardings at Thomastown than at Lalor. Most people don't actually walk home from the station.

Originally Posted by L2

Something simple like this would have perfectly sufficed for Thomo, but of course we need the station to be the new local landmark now.

Very little cover on the platforms. If you look at Thomastown- radically different, because the trains are much longer, and people hanging around in little shelters means some cars packed; dome virtually empty when it rains: here, we need people to distribute along the platform before boarding the train. Thornton in the Hunter Valley is simply not in the same league as Thomastown. It's a country town.

Regarding people getting wet crossing railway footbridges: well, the most notable thing is, that people are potentially prone to slip on wet staircases: and might sue whoever concedes themselves to be responsible in the event of an injury.

Roofing footbridges is actually standard practice lately- look at Footscray, Laverton, North Melbourne, Westall: so why not Thomastown?

[invincible]

A roof is fine but the Thomastown structure does look overly elaborate. There's nothing wrong with a basic tin-shed roof or just the yellow grippy sandpaper-like edging without the structure altogether. Staircases are probably the place you're least likely to trip over on a rainy day - I personally find that Melbourne's bluestone footpaths are much more treacherous when combined with rain and a pair of dress shoes.

I think it's fair to say that some of Melbourne's new/rebuilt stations are definitely a bit too fancy, especially when existing established stations could probably deserve similar treatment more. Example - Westall whose three platforms are almost now entirely covered whereas the much busier Clayton and Springvale stations on either side have the equivalent of about one carriage length of each platform under cover.

[Yardmaster]

Originally Posted by invincible

A roof is fine but the Thomastown structure does look overly elaborate. There's nothing wrong with a basic tin-shed roof or just the yellow grippy sandpaper-like edging without the structure altogether. Staircases are probably the place you're least likely to trip over on a rainy day - I personally find that Melbourne's bluestone footpaths are much more treacherous when combined with rain and a pair of dress shoes.

I think it's fair to say that some of Melbourne's new/rebuilt stations are definitely a bit too fancy, especially when existing established stations could probably deserve similar treatment more. Example - Westall whose three platforms are almost now entirely covered whereas the much busier Clayton and Springvale stations on either side have the equivalent of about one carriage length of each platform under cover.

Well, if you think that was extravagant, then look at this:

Thomastown Station: looking southwards, towards the city:



Thomastown Station: looking north:



Note that the east track is not in operation yet (for those geographically challenged, on the left in the first photo, on the right in the second).

This will be the "up" platform"- for passengers bound to Melbourne- and it has been largely roofed, which means pasengers boarding trains her will distribute themselves more evenly along the length of the train, which has a considerable bearing on train-loading time , and comfort within the train, even for those further down the track.




Although the Thomastown footbridge may seem monumental: in terms of its architectural footprint, it is commensurate with the station. And it isn't exactly grand architecture: when I first saw it I compared it to the new footbridges I knew most: at Footscray



& North Melbourne.:



Laverton, again, lots of shelter & and a covered bridge:



I wouldn't, for a start, be picking the Thomastown Bridge as an extravagance: or an architectural wonder. I have a hard time convincing one of the guys that I grew up with that this sort of architecture is worth anything at all- he featured on National televison denouncing Federation Square.

The NE Metro scheme wasn't always premised on the bottom line, & perhaps we should be grateful for that. We got a bridge like this across Merri Creek:



Not exactly the Sydney Opera House, but what would Bennelong Point have been if we'd followed that logic?

If you ask me, we should be aspiring to something rather than the bare minimum for Public Transport.

[Chelsworthgale]

Couple of things...
1. The duplication track from Keon Park to Epping is essentially finished and ready for commissioning barring a few final track connections and the obvious extension to the new submerged Epping station.

2. They are targeting November/December to open the new Epping Station and dual track. Despite the wet weather this was reconfirmed by the minister in last weeks Whittlesea Review.

3. On the structure at Thomastown, it is not overly complex and the material choice is not overly expensive. The structure is simple and provides shelter but also provides some architectural integrity which is a a big thing for the DoT. Gone are the days where stations are eyesores (ie: Greensborough, Epping etc)... i would say this is to help overcome a lot of NIMBY attitude.

[Aussie Steve]

We shoudl always expect high quality design with any public building. This was the practice at the turn of last century, so why not now. We have some wonderful railway buildings in the suburbs built around 1900 - MATHS Group inc Caulfield, Camberwell etc., let alone the numerous other 1870s/80s stations such as Windsor etc.. These buildings are landmarks in their local area, so why ot continue the trend today? I certainly woudl not like to see a boring box built at stations with little or no architectural merit.

[Chelsworthgale]

Originally Posted by Aussie Steve

We shoudl always expect high quality design with any public building. This was the practice at the turn of last century, so why not now. We have some wonderful railway buildings in the suburbs built around 1900 - MATHS Group inc Caulfield, Camberwell etc., let alone the numerous other 1870s/80s stations such as Windsor etc.. These buildings are landmarks in their local area, so why ot continue the trend today? I certainly woudl not like to see a boring box built at stations with little or no architectural merit.

Don't disagree with this at all. I'm now a regular on the Epping line but grew up on the Hurstbridge line and there is a cross section of wonderfully looking old stations like Ivanhoe, Clifton Hill & Heidelberg but then you have some shockers like McLeod, Greensborough, Montmorency and Wattle Glenn.

[John_Proctor]

Originally Posted by Chelsworthgale

2. They are targeting November/December to open the new Epping Station and dual track. Despite the wet weather this was reconfirmed by the minister in last weeks Whittlesea Review.

When ministers say November/December they normally include up to 3 months fat in the program so they aren't embarassed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it open well before November particularly given as you say there is only the track to new Epping and the connections at each end that need to be finalised.

[kichigai]

Originally Posted by Aussie Steve

We shoudl always expect high quality design with any public building. This was the practice at the turn of last century, so why not now. We have some wonderful railway buildings in the suburbs built around 1900 - MATHS Group inc Caulfield, Camberwell etc., let alone the numerous other 1870s/80s stations such as Windsor etc.. These buildings are landmarks in their local area, so why ot continue the trend today? I certainly woudl not like to see a boring box built at stations with little or no architectural merit.

[Chelsworthgale]

Originally Posted by John_Proctor

When ministers say November/December they normally include up to 3 months fat in the program so they aren't embarassed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it open well before November particularly given as you say there is only the track to new Epping and the connections at each end that need to be finalised.

What little fat there was in that program has been whittled away to date by inclement weather. JHG are pushing hard for SMREP to finish as early as possible so they can begin to roll guys over into RRL (of should they win packages)...

Your also forgetting that the new Epping station needs to be commissioned. There is still significant amount of work still to be done above and below ground there.

[L2]

Originally Posted by Chelsworthgale

Gone are the days where stations are eyesores (ie: Greensborough, Epping etc)... i would say this is to help overcome a lot of NIMBY attitude.

Yeah because they've really put so much effort into some recent outer suburban constructions..

Keilor Plains Station - opened 2002, Sydenham Electrification. City of Brimbank.


Laburnum Station - opened 2007, Middleborough Road Project. City of Whitehorse.


Merinda Park Station - opened 1995, Cranbourne Electrification. City of Casey.
image hosted on flickr

[jarf]

Don't forget the fugly concrete monstrosity that is Roxburgh Park...

[Chelsworthgale]

Originally Posted by L2

Yeah because they've really put so much effort into some recent outer suburban constructions..

and yet designing began in 2009 for the SMREP stations... not sure when the mindset changed however Westall was designed 07/08 and that resembles Roxburgh Park a bit... Footscray was 08/09 & that has architectural merit....

I am sure costs and patronage would also influence the design decisions

[Planks & Sticks]

Originally Posted by jarf

Don't forget the fugly concrete monstrosity that is Roxburgh Park...

I find it amusing that the station above probably only needs greenery to solve most of its appearance problems, such as using that fence in the middle of the image as a vine climber. One thing that I have noticed is that stations with gardens tend to have a stronger community embrace to it (Surrey Hills, etc). But I don't think a small percentage of users of the station above is going to be very kind to it...

[L2]

Originally Posted by jarf

Don't forget the fugly concrete monstrosity that is Roxburgh Park...

I forgot about that disgusting thing. It looked hideous from the day it opened, and it's incredibly windswept. See another great one below..

Kananook Station - upgraded 2007, SEITA/EastLink rail station improvements. City of Frankston.

[jonas jade]

Originally Posted by L2

Merinda Park Station - opened 1995, Cranbourne Electrification. City of Casey.
image hosted on flickr

My favourite part of Merinda park is the car park that was actually just dumpy mud when I was there.

Oh & how there's absolutely no signage from the main roads to Roxburgh Park Station even though its so far away from anyone's house that no one would walk.

[L2]

Originally Posted by Yardmaster

Most people don't actually walk home from the station.

Umm Yardy, yes people do.

For your example of Thomastown, 2900 individual pax per day use the station.

That goes down to 2650 if you take out the 200 park + ride pax and overflow parking in nearby streets.

Take out another 350 to 2300 if you assume that many people catch the train to work/shopping in Thomo per day + gunzels + kids going there to hang out.

I doubt the infrequent feeder buses to Thomastown are delivering most of the remainder, nor would taxis or kiss and ride be doing so.

Originally Posted by Yardmaster

Very little cover on the platforms. If you look at Thomastown- radically different, because the trains are much longer, and people hanging around in little shelters means some cars packed; dome virtually empty when it rains: here, we need people to distribute along the platform before boarding the train. Thornton in the Hunter Valley is simply not in the same league as Thomastown. It's a country town.

Yes Yardy, the trains are shorter, but I was comparing the footbridge, not the shelter length.

And Thornton has CityRail trains running every 30 minutes in the off-peak mainly carrying commuters to/from Newcastle, so it's not exactly a country service.

Diggers Rest looks like it's getting quite a large station in it's upgrade, and Diggers Rest is really not that much of a town/suburb, now home to a total of 1 shop. Is there really going to be so many pax going one stop from Diggers Rest (pop 2300) to Sunbury than they need to spread out?